2 questions re: Latex mattresses

[phoenix]

Hi Tradernik,

1. A local manufacturer of many types of mattress offers a 4" Talalay comfort layer on top of a 10" Soy-based HD foam support core (hope my terminology is right). Is a 4" top layer of Talalay sufficient to be considered a ‘real’ latex mattress? Is it thick enough for me to get the real latex mattress experience? I am 5’10" and 165 pounds. At another place I was shown pure latex mattresses (i.e. no support level, just an 8" latex piece). Significantly more expensive of course.

The mattress you are describing would typically be called a latex/polyfoam hybrid rather than an “all latex” mattress. There is more about the pros and cons of a latex/polyfoam hybrid vs an all latex mattress in post #2 here.

Unfortunately it’s not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for someone else either for a mattress, a manufacturers/retailers, or a combination of materials or type of mattress because the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) or how a mattress will “feel” to you based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more accurate than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

By the way, I know from reading here that ‘HD’ might not mean much; I am trying to determine exactly what the support layer is made of, and what density it is

That’s a very good idea so that you can confirm that the density meets the quality/durability guidelines here.

2. This maker says the supplier of latex does not use the ILD system so he can’t tell me if the 4" layer is 29 ILD (I tested a few mattresses at a retail place and 28-30 felt very good to me). Is that odd? I know there is another system where 70 is roughly equal to the 29 of the ILD system? Can I insist that I need to know the density and I need it given to me in a standard unit of measurement as opposed to ‘this is pretty firm’?

There are many Dunlop latex manufacturers that don’t rate the firmess of their latex cores using ILD and many of them will use density instead (although there are also other methods of rating the firmness of latex and there are also several different versions of ILD as well). Even for those that do use ILD as a firmness rating the ILD of different types and blends of latex aren’t directly comparable anyway (see post #6 here). There are also other factors besides ILD alone that can affect how soft or firm an individual layer or a mattress “as a whole” feels to any specific person (see post #4 here). Having said all that … if a mattress is using 100% natural Dunlop and only has density information available then the information in post #2 here can help you translate the density of 100% natural Dunlop) into an approximate ILD range.

I would also keep in mind that there are also no “standardized” definitions or consensus of opinions for firmness ratings and different manufacturers can rate their mattresses very differently than others so a mattress that one manufacturer rates as being a specific firmness could be rated very differently by another manufacturer. Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that feels firm for one person can feel like “medium” for someone else or even “soft” for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they “rate” a mattress as well (see post #15 here).

When you are testing mattresses locally then you really don’t need to know the ILD of the different layers anyway because with careful testing your body will tell you all you need to know about whether a mattress is a good match for you in terms of PPP regardless of whether you know any of the “comfort specs” or “firmness specs” of any of the individual layers.

Unless you have a great deal of knowledge and experience with different types of mattress materials and components along with the different specs that can affect softness/firmness and how different types of materials and layering combinations feel when they are combined together and you can translate them into your own “real life” experience that can be unique to you … I would tend to avoid using complex combinations of specs to try and predict how a mattress will feel or perform for you and focus more on your own actual testing and/or personal experience. When you try and choose a mattress based on complex combinations of specs that you may not fully understand or only based on a single spec such as ILD that is only one part of a larger picture and that may not be a relevant or meaningful as you believe it is then the most common outcome is “information overload” and “paralysis by analysis”.

There is more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) in post #2 here that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for once you actually sleep on your mattress.

While it’s important to know the specs that can affect the durability or useful life of a mattress (see this article) … trying to use specs to decide on whether a mattress is a suitable choice in terms of PPP can be more misleading than helpful.

As a bonus question for those in Canada and the GTA in particular, does anyone know why it is that although the Carpenter USA company says they do not make latex mattresses, two of the makers I have talked to say they get their latex from Carpenter?

Carpenter doesn’t make latex (either Dunlop or Talalay) and manufactures a wide range of polyfoam and memory foam materials but apparently in Canada they do supply latex that is made by latex manufacturers and it’s not unusual for foam manufacturers to work in partnership with latex manufacturers to supply latex to their customers that they don’t make themselves so they can provide all the foam materials that their customers may need “in house”.

Phoenix