20 layer cake/latex mattress question confusion

[Rachierad]

So we switched gears from the Pure Latex Bliss Vitality we went in to buy. It’s suppppppper soft and very comfortable but was worried it would soften up a little mroe and be too soft. My hips were already sinking a little low I thought. (5’6 140 lbs) The salesman then sold us on a mattress he guaranteed wouldn’t get too soft, the PLB Pamper. It’s hard as a rock. We added the Active Fusion 3" Fast Response latex topper and it felt plush but still firm. I am a sucker for a good deal and he was offering the mattress and the topper for $1200. (older model Pamper floor model without the Active Fusion in the top layer) I kept thinking how awesome to get a full latex mattress for less than the poly/latex blend mattress. Now I’m a little worried.

Questions ( I lied when I said I would have no more questions)

1. We really looooved the softness of the Vitality. If this combo ends up being too hard after sleeping on it a while, any suggestions to soften it up? Low ILD poly foam between bed and topper? Another Latex topper?

2. We switched gears from memory foam to latex because I started to get worried about the unfounded safety concerns with memory foam. I thought Latex would be a great all natural choice. I didn’t think to wonder until NOW what was blended with latex to make Talatech ‘natural’ latex. I’ve read it’s 30% latex and 70% styrene-butadiene rubber. I know you aren’t a chemist and i’m on the verge of “too much information is a bad thing” threshold, but would you consider this blended latex a ‘safe’ choice. I know safe means different things to different people so it’s hard to say, but would you think that this blended latex is at least SAFER than memory foam? Would you think it safer for our toddler to sleep on?

3. We thought about ordering the Slow Response Active Fusion topper since we like the feel of memory foam, but Would you think that this would be similar to regular Memory Foam in terms of it’s 'ingredients"?

4. I haven’t heard back from PLB customer service, so maybe you would know this. Is their Active Fusion/Talalay GL line also Oeko-Tex standard 100 certified? I can’t read anything that confirms this. I’m half convinced that certification just goes to the company willing to enough money for it (BBB style) but I would rather believe that this is some Guarantee that even though the latex isn’t ALL NATURAL, and is blended with some funky SBR that it is at least labeled as being somewhat safe.

I’ll for sure keep an update on our satisfaction with the mattress in case it helps out anyone else in the future!

Thanks for all your help. I would nevvvvvvvver never have purchased this without you! And really, it’s going to be better than the Sealy Optimum we originally were ready to buy a month ago. And cheaper too!

[Rachierad]

ALSOO

we decided not to get the mattress water proof cover from them because they only offered one that fit up to a 22" mattress depth. I was certain it would be too blousy and annoying. I am not too concerned about needing to use the warranty on the Pamper because I doubt it will get a 3/4 inch depression with the topper on it. I would like protection for the topper because I could see it getting stains on it and worry that moisture from sweat/spills could lead to mold or something. How does latex react to moisture?

But I worry that a mattress cover will make the topper less plush. Would that be the case to some degree? Either way, do you know of any covers for lower profile 9" mattresses or ones just for mattress toppers?

-No clue how you have time to answer all of these questions. Let me know when you’re hiring for an answering assistant. My mattress obsession has led me to become a qualified candidate

[phoenix]

Hi Rachierad,

1. We really looooved the softness of the Vitality. If this combo ends up being too hard after sleeping on it a while, any suggestions to soften it up? Low ILD poly foam between bed and topper? Another Latex topper?

There are many potential solutions to softening a mattress but I wouldn’t recommend starting in this direction. If you are sensitive to changes in a mattress than deciding on a topper much less a mattress/topper/topper combination can be just as complex as buying a mattress. I would strongly encourage you to buy the specific combination that you are confident about in the first place. For some people … experimenting with toppers can become an expensive and frustrating exercise (they often can’t be returned if you choose the wrong one). My general suggestion when you are making a local purchase is to buy a mattress as if you only had one chance to get it right and make it as close to your needs and preferences as you possibly can so that if you do need to make any “fine tuning” changes after the purchase they can be as small as possible and used as a backup only if necessary … not as a main reason to make a purchase. This will help keep you focused on good objective testing in the store rather than trying to figure out what is possible if something happens “in theory” which will only open the floodgates to information overload. Your lighter weight means using a very low ILD topper has better odds of success but I would always make sure that your testing confirms it in terms of PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Personal preferences) to the greatest degree possible.

2. We switched gears from memory foam to latex because I started to get worried about the unfounded safety concerns with memory foam. I thought Latex would be a great all natural choice. I didn’t think to wonder until NOW what was blended with latex to make Talatech ‘natural’ latex. I’ve read it’s 30% latex and 70% styrene-butadiene rubber. I know you aren’t a chemist and i’m on the verge of “too much information is a bad thing” threshold, but would you consider this blended latex a ‘safe’ choice. I know safe means different things to different people so it’s hard to say, but would you think that this blended latex is at least SAFER than memory foam? Would you think it safer for our toddler to sleep on?

Blended Talalay is tested in the same way as 100% natural Talalay (OekoTex standard 100 class 1 “safe for babies”) and for the vast majority of people there are no safety or sensitivity issues with latex at all. Even people who have MCS (multiple chemical sensitivity) tend to be fine with it. OekoTex is a legitimate testing protocol, is respected around the world, and you can see the actual testing protocols they use here. The short answer is that yes I would consider any latex that had a good testing certification attached to it (OekoTex, Eco-Institut etc) as a very “safe” choice … especialy for those that are very sensitive to chemicals and offgassing and may not do well even with materials like polyfoam or memory foam that have been CertiPur certified.

3. We thought about ordering the Slow Response Active Fusion topper since we like the feel of memory foam, but Would you think that this would be similar to regular Memory Foam in terms of it’s 'ingredients"?

The actual formulation of slow response latex that various companies offer that turns a fast response material into a slow response material isn’t disclosed by any of them. The slow response latex though is still primarily latex not polyurethane like memory foam so it a completely different type of “slow response” foam than memory foam.

4. I haven’t heard back from PLB customer service, so maybe you would know this. Is their Active Fusion/Talalay GL line also Oeko-Tex standard 100 certified? I can’t read anything that confirms this. I’m half convinced that certification just goes to the company willing to enough money for it (BBB style) but I would rather believe that this is some Guarantee that even though the latex isn’t ALL NATURAL, and is blended with some funky SBR that it is at least labeled as being somewhat safe.

The Latex International site here is clear that all of their latex products are Oeko-Tex certified.

How does latex react to moisture?

It’s fine and regular moisture won’t affect it and it’s also very breathable so moisture can dissipate faster than most other bedding foams. They actually saturate the latex with water and squeeze it out to wash it after it’s manufactured.

But I worry that a mattress cover will make the topper less plush. Would that be the case to some degree? Either way, do you know of any covers for lower profile 9" mattresses or ones just for mattress toppers?

A mattress protector is always a good idea for any mattress and would go over the topper and then tuck under the mattress. There are different types available depending on your preference and the tradeoffs that are most important to you. You can read more about them in post #89 here. The most popular choice is usually the thin membrane type which generally have little effect on the mattress although they are not as breathable and temperature regulating as the other two.

-No clue how you have time to answer all of these questions. Let me know when you’re hiring for an answering assistant. My mattress obsession has led me to become a qualified candidate

That’s funny. I think that there are a lot of forum members that have bought a mattress using some of the information here that would be much better qualified than many of the people who actually sell mattresses!

I would nevvvvvvvver never have purchased this without you! And really, it’s going to be better than the Sealy Optimum we originally were ready to buy a month ago. And cheaper too!

You are certainly right that it is both better quality and value than the Optimum

Phoenix

[Rachierad]

Alright, we are back in the mattress market. Well that surely was a close one i think. It seemed to be a common theme of people getting the PLB Pamper with topper and later sinking through the soft topper and bottoming out on the extra firm 40ild Pamper. That and the topper is slightly smaller than the mattress steered us in a different direction. We are super close to finalization! After trying some more latex beds we are fairly certain we like the plushy (this preference is probably why we have back pains in the morning…:)) feel of 19 ild over 24/28. Super soft, which has me a little worried about support but that’s why we’re now leaning towards Arizona Mattress companies adjustable latex mattress, so if worst case scenario we can exchange for a firmer support layer.

My question is that their prices seem too good to be true. I’ve also looked at Mygreenmattress.com and see that their mattresses with comparable 9inch latex and an organic wool cover is almost $1000 more. Arizonas even has the added value of being able to exchange individual layers if needs be. They both are on your list for having good quality and value, but Arizonas seems to have way more value. Am I missing something that maybe mygreenmattress offers? Or something that maybe Arizona mattress doesn’t?

I still want to call sleepez to hear the benefit of having three different layers with different ILDs. Their prices seem compatible with Arizona. Any input on three layers over 2? I imagine it may be a good idea to have a firmer bottom layer to give more support?

The one thing I’m giving up( but gaining a natural chemical free fire barrier) is the thin cover of the pure latex bliss. I really enjoyed the direct contact of the latex. Both arizona and sleepez and green mattress over quilted wool/cotton covers. Does this significantly change/lessen the contouring properties of latex?
I’m a little worried about Arizonas being a 1.5 inches and it getting slight impressions. Do you know if wool has that tendency?
Sleep Ez appears to have a thinner over. Obviously Ill ask them this question as well.

With the benefit of the adjustable layers, have you heard of any issues with the foams slightly shifting and overhanging due to not being glued? My husbands really worried about that.

Also I think it’s wondeful to have the option to switch layers if absolutely necessary but that brings up the worry that these returned layers are then being used to make other mattresses. Any thoughts on this? Seems a touchy area. I understand tht when latex is made its rinsed so maybe it’s possible to “wash” these returned layers and reuse them? I just don’t think I want bed bugs haha.

I can’t believe I’ve actually convinced my serta loving hubs to order a mattress online. Thanks a million again. We are in the final stretch and starting to get less stressed and finally excited!

Hopefully within the month I’ll actually be sleeping rather than staying up late researching mattresses and avoiding that lump called a bed in there.

[phoenix]

Hi Rachierad,

Alright, we are back in the mattress market. Well that surely was a close one i think. It seemed to be a common theme of people getting the PLB Pamper with topper and later sinking through the soft topper and bottoming out on the extra firm 40ild Pamper. That and the topper is slightly smaller than the mattress steered us in a different direction. We are super close to finalization!

I think you’re right about that. The two most common PLB “issues” I’ve seen are the Pamper/topper combination and the choice of the Beautiful for people that the comfort layers are too soft/thick for their body type and sleeping positions.

We are super close to finalization! After trying some more latex beds we are fairly certain we like the plushy (this preference is probably why we have back pains in the morning…:)) feel of 19 ild over 24/28. Super soft, which has me a little worried about support but that’s why we’re now leaning towards Arizona Mattress companies adjustable latex mattress, so if worst case scenario we can exchange for a firmer support layer.

Layer thickness and layer softness in combination with the layers above and below the comfort layers all work together to provide the softness, pressure relief, and “feel” that makes one mattress more attractive or suitable than another for different people. Relatively soft latex in thinner layers with the right type and ILD of latex below it can work very well depending again on body type, sleeping positions, and preferences.

My question is that their prices seem too good to be true. I’ve also looked at MyGeenMattress and see that their mattresses with comparable 9inch latex and an organic wool cover is almost $1000 more. Arizonas even has the added value of being able to exchange individual layers if needs be. They both are on your list for having good quality and value, but Arizonas seems to have way more value. Am I missing something that maybe mygreenmattress offers? Or something that maybe Arizona mattress doesn’t?

The relative value of a mattress depends on many things and which part of each person’s “personal value equation” are most important to them and on whether you are making an apples to apples comparison. For example My Green Mattress has a mattress that uses a combination of natural and Blended latex called the Evergreen that has 9" vs 8" of latex and is two-sided for a similar price.(Note added later: this is a discontinued product from My Green Mattress Products) Other manufacturers that have more layers, different options for exchange or design, or have differences in shipping or exchange costs are also only slightly higher so it really depends on what is most important to you (see post #2 here). There is no doubt though that Arizona Premium is one of the “value” leaders and are one of the more popular choices here.

The one thing I’m giving up( but gaining a natural chemical free fire barrier) is the thin cover of the pure latex bliss. I really enjoyed the direct contact of the latex. Both arizona and sleepez and green mattress over quilted wool/cotton covers. Does this significantly change/lessen the contouring properties of latex?

I don’t think “significantly” would be accurate in most people’s perceptions but “to some degree” would be accurate yes although this as well may be a preference for some and a detriment to others depending again on what is most important to them. Arizona Premium and SleepEz and also have unquilted covers available if that’s what you prefer.

I’m a little worried about Arizonas being a 1.5 inches and it getting slight impressions. Do you know if wool has that tendency?
Sleep Ez appears to have a thinner over. Obviously Ill ask them this question as well.

The 1.5" is before its quilted so it is pre-compressed to be thinner in the cover. While wool will compress about 30% of its thickness over time it’s not normally an issue with layers of wool that are pre-compressed in the quilting and are fairly thin already. Impressions are also not an issue unless they affect pressure relief or alignment and impressions in wool are not the same as impressions in polyfoam which come from softening and material breakdown which have a much more significant effect.

With the benefit of the adjustable layers, have you heard of any issues with the foams slightly shifting and overhanging due to not being glued? My husbands really worried about that.

No … unless of course you were to do something unusual such as turn the mattress on its side to move it or something similar in which case it would be very simple to open the mattress and “wave” the layer back into position. Latex is very “sticky” and doesn’t slide over other layers.

Also I think it’s wondeful to have the option to switch layers if absolutely necessary but that brings up the worry that these returned layers are then being used to make other mattresses. Any thoughts on this? Seems a touchy area. I understand tht when latex is made its rinsed so maybe it’s possible to “wash” these returned layers and reuse them? I just don’t think I want bed bugs haha.

Good manufacturers (such as those on the site) don’t re-use their layers in new mattresses and would use other ways to deal with exchanges which can range from disposal, donation, selling them to other manufacturers who sell “seconds”, or through liquidation outlets. There are of course always people who will sell “used”, seconds, or even defective layers with or without letting their customers know (and not just with latex mattresses or components) and this is where the integrity or reputation of a manufacturer or retailer becomes important.

I can’t believe I’ve actually convinced my serta loving hubs to order a mattress online. Thanks a million again. We are in the final stretch and starting to get less stressed and finally excited!

It’s amazing how the “facts” about mattresses and the industry in general can even tech old dogs new tricks :). Excitement is always much better than "stress!

Hopefully within the month I’ll actually be sleeping rather than staying up late researching mattresses and avoiding that lump called a bed in there.

I’m looking forward to your feedback once you “pull the trigger”.

Phoenix

[Rachierad]

Alright! We’ve gone from a 20 layer mattress down to a 2 layer mattress. After working through a lot of skepticism of buying a mattress online we are getting a mattress from Arizona mattress company. I really like the feel of a thinner cover over the latex, and they recommended just putting a topper over a 6 inch mattress core. Since they only offer the wool cover. I like the idea of this, but as we talked about earlier maybe it’s a better idea to get a mattress all encompassed ? We’ve tried this basic configuration of ILDS in a few stores and like it. Do you have any advice on if taking the top layer out and making it a topper will change the overall feel drastically? I imagine it will be a little firmer with the wool cover between latex layers… Thoughts?

I’ve even got my mOm sold on getting a latex mattress. She’s had a tempurpedic cloud for a couple years. Lovedddd it but after months of chiropractic work they’ve realized that her bed has softened up too much and its likely what is causing her to wake up with back pain every two hours… Do you happen to know of any good mattress stores/factory directs in the Beaumont, TX area that have latex or latex/spring beds? Again, just love all your help and wisdom.

[phoenix]

Hi Rachierad,

I like the idea of this, but as we talked about earlier maybe it’s a better idea to get a mattress all encompassed ? We’ve tried this basic configuration of ILDS in a few stores and like it. Do you have any advice on if taking the top layer out and making it a topper will change the overall feel drastically? I imagine it will be a little firmer with the wool cover between latex layers… Thoughts?

The separate topper will “act” a little softer than it would inside the cover because it can act more independently and would be a little “cushier”. Other than that … Ken is very knowledgeable and knows his latex so I will leave your choices to conversations between you since he is the “expert” on his own designs. As you know the quality and value of his mattresses are great.

The closest list to Beaumont, TX is the Houston list in post #2 here. Over the next few days if I have the chance I’ll take a look to see if there is anything closer to Beaumont that may be worth visiting.

Phoenix

ADDED: The better options and possibilities I could see in the Beaumont area and the manufacturers they carry that I would focus on (subject to making sure that they can tell you the specifics of the materials and components in their mattresses) include …

http://www.mattressoverstockusa.com/ Beaumont, Port Arthur, TX. Southerland, Sherwood.

http://homezonefurniture.com/ Beaumont, TX. Restonic

Shop Mattresses | Beaumont, Port Arthur, Texas, Lake Charles, Louisiana | Howell Furniture Beaumont, Nederland, TX. Lake Charles, LA. Restonic

http://www.sweetdreamsusa.net/ Beaumont, Port Arthur, Atascosita, TX. Noah’s

http://belfurniture.com/ Beaumont, TX. Restonic

[Lew]

“Thanks so much for your quick reply. I wish you posted an address so people can send you things like a well deserved fruit basket. ;)”

Racheried, Phoenix doesn’t openly lobby for donations, but if you look at Our Services above it will give you a link to a way to give a donation. He gets a $50 referral fee from his list of manufacturers, so that is what I donated. It is a reflection of his integrity that he doesn’t push those manufacturers over local dealers. Lew

[dmartin1910]

“The latex is blended Talalay (which they call “natural”) not 100% natural Talalay (which they call “all natural”)”…

So I know about the core being 90% poly bonded to 10% latex.

Are you saying the Talalay comfort layer on top is not 100% Talalay? I was ok with poly in the core, separated from my head by the comfort layer…but are you saying the comfort layer isn’t even 100% Talalay?

I have been reading this site and researching online and thought I finally understood the difference. Based on that and wanting to buy locally and liking the way this bed felt, I just bought it.

Now I’m having buyer’s remorse if I do NOT have 100% Talalay next to my head. The laws need to change on how the mattress companies are able to promote their products!

BTW, they accidentally delivered the wrong PLB mattress yesterday. It was the 9" mattress but no name was on it, but I’m thinking it was the Mezzanine, their cheapest hybrid. The tag, however, said 95% poly and 5% latex!! 1" out of 9" should be 12% latex is it’s 100%. The core is obviously NOT 10% latex on this bed. The math doesn’t work. This is making me furious!
And what if I hadn’t complained? I would have paid $2600 for a $1300 mattress!!

[phoenix]

Hi dmartin1910,

Are you saying the Talalay comfort layer on top is not 100% Talalay? I was ok with poly in the core, separated from my head by the comfort layer…but are you saying the comfort layer isn’t even 100% Talalay?

Foamed rubber is made using one of two main manufacturing methods. These are the Dunlop process and the Talalay process. Either one can use natural rubber (NR), synthetic rubber (SBR) or a blend of the two. So this is 100% Talalay (latex is either 100% Talalay or 100% Dunlop because it can only be made with one or the other methods of manufacturing) but it uses a blend of natural rubber (about 30%) and synthetic rubber (about 70%). You can read about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here. In the lower ILD’s … the blended Talalay would be a little more durable than 100% natural Talalay.

BTW, they accidentally delivered the wrong PLB mattress yesterday. It was the 9" mattress but no name was on it, but I’m thinking it was the Mezzanine, their cheapest hybrid. The tag, however, said 95% poly and 5% latex!! 1" out of 9" should be 12% latex is it’s 100%. The core is obviously NOT 10% latex on this bed. The math doesn’t work. This is making me furious!
And what if I hadn’t complained? I would have paid $2600 for a $1300 mattress!!

The name of the mattress should be on the law tag. The Mezzanine is a 9" mattress that uses 1" of Active Fusion slow response Talalay latex (which has a slower response similar to memory foam) over an 8" bonded polyfoam/latex core. The law tag states the materials based on the percentage weight (not the percentage thickness) so the thickness would depend on which of the materials was heavier (which is normally the latex). All their bonded cores are 90% polyurethane and 10% latex (bonded together in a resin) but would be listed under polyurethane (which is what it is primarily) and the 5% would be the listing for the 1" layer of latex on the top. The Harmony is also a 9" mattress but it has 3" of Active Fusion fast response Talalay latex and a 6" core so based on the percentages this wouldn’t be what you have.

Which mattress and what size did you buy … and was it mattress only or a set?

I would definitely call them and have them correct their delivery error.

Phoenix

[dmartin1910]

Yes, I got the correct one tonight. And NO, the name of the mattress was not on either tag, but the specifictions are, so you can figure it out. The tag on the Vitality says 41% Talalay latex Rubber, and 59% bonded polyfoam.

I got the set because the company I bought from had one price that included the box springs. I got a king because I have a king sleigh bed.

I tested a lot of latex beds before finding this one I liked as much as the Cloud Luxe. Different response, but similar softness. Still a good foundation of support underneath but the softness on top I like.

Is synthetic latex made chemical-free for the most part, or is it as toxic as other synthetic materials like poly?

[phoenix]

Hi dmartin,

Yes, I got the correct one tonight. And NO, the name of the mattress was not on either tag, but the specifictions are, so you can figure it out. The tag on the Vitality says 41% Talalay latex Rubber, and 59% bonded polyfoam.

That’s much better although it surprises me that the name of the mattress isn’t on the law tag.

I was asking about the size because the price you paid for the king set ($2600) is a little on the high side although I don’t know what was included in the purchase price (delivery, removal of your old mattress, and of course tax etc).

Is synthetic latex made chemical-free for the most part, or is it as toxic as other synthetic materials like poly?

Synthetic rubber is made with a mix of two main chemicals … Styrene and Butadiene … but by the time they are reacted together they are inert. Their blended latex has the same testing certifications for harmful substances and VOC’s (Oeko-Tex standard 100) as their 100% natural latex and almost all the latex you are likely to encounter (regardless of type or blend). Oeko-Tex is a little more stringent than the CertiPur certification that is normally seen for polyfoam and memory foam so most people would consider it to be a “safe” and “non toxic” material. It meets the limits and standards of the same testing protocol as 100% natural latex.

Phoenix

[dmartin1910]

Well, actually $2550 for the set. I bought it from Mattress USA, mentioned as an Atlanta store. It was originally $2700 and they went down to $2550 when I mentioned MU. But I found another mattress store (retail) at $2499, so I’m going to call for price guarantee in the 30 day window.
I got two free pillows, delivery and they hauled away my old 2,000 lb (it feels like :)) mattress and box springs.

[phoenix]

Hi dmartin,

Post #32 here includes several online dealers for PLB mattresses that may be worth talking to as a price reference for the price guarantee you have but it’s good to see that you also received some extra benefits with your purchase.

Now that you have the right one … congratulations on your new mattress as well

Phoenix

[dmartin1910]

Update on my Pure Bliss “Vitality” hybrid Talalay latex mattress: It never “broke in” to feel as soft as the one in the store (plushness rating of 8 feels more like 5-6 to me). So much for the decision to buy locally because I wanted to test the mattress first. I wouldn’t hesitate to buy online next time where you can change out layers that aren’t glued together with certain online brands.
Mattress USA has a comfort guarentee, but it’s really an exchange policy, as they don’t adjust the mattress you have. The next model up that is soft is about $2000 more for 100% Talalay, and I didn’t want to spend that much dough.
So I found a 3" 100% Talalalay topper from Foam Factory for $330 (King). Most 3" toppers I found online were at least $400 for 100% Talalay (and more if it’s “natural” or “organic”). It doesn’t say synthetic latex, but it probably is at that price. And after you educated me on synthetic latex I don’t have a problem with it.
It arrived this morning and I immediately set it up. NO SMELL with latex, which is awesome, and the bed is SO comfy now with the #20 density.
If someone is in a similar predicament to me I would recommend trying this. Also, in terms of moving the layer around it would have been too heavy for me to manipulate it alone if it was more than 3" thick so keep that in mind if you are ordering component layers for a custom mattress. If you are ordering a 5’-6" core it will take 2 people. Otherwise you’ll need to get white glove delivery.

Just sharing some of my experiences,

Diana from Marietta

[phoenix]

Hi dmartin1910,

I’m glad to see that a topper was able to solve your issues and it’s a good argument for why a mattress that is too firm is always a better option than a mattress which is too soft because it’s much easier to soften up a mattress that is too firm than the other way around.

Just for clarity though and for the sake of others who may read this … the topper you ordered from Foam Factory (FBM) isn’t Talalay (although they tell their customers that’s what they’re selling) and also isn’t likely to be 20 ILD (see post #2 here and post #2 here) but that’s much less important than the fact that it’s working well for you which is all that’s really important

Thanks for letting us know.

Phoenix

[dmartin1910]

You’re right. It’s comfort that matters as long as the value is there. And at $70 less than I found Talalay latex 3" topper King anywhere else, I guess it’s a fair price. But my receipt even says Talalay/ 20ILD. It galls me that they just LIE, even if I’m happy with the comfort of the product.

[phoenix]

Hi dmartin1910,

It galls me that they just LIE, even if I’m happy with the comfort of the product.

It galls me as well and that’s why I bring up those two posts so often so that people are aware that they are not a reliable supplier in terms of providing an accurate description of what they are selling.

Unfortunately most consumers just don’t have the experience to be able to tell the difference between different types of latex or different ILD’s because they have no real reference points to compare them and I have seen many people struggle with the “latex” they have purchased from FBM because they don’t understand why it isn’t working the way it “should work”. In some cases this has led them to make other purchases that are just as bad because they are using a reference point that wasn’t accurate as their point of comparison.

Phoenix

[dmartin1910]

I just pulled off the mattress pad and looked again, and sure enough it’s Dunlop. More solid on one side. no grooves like Talalay.

[dmartin1910]

That’s funny because I bought the Vitality in December and just had to purchase a topper because it still feels too firm to me. Like a plushness rating of 5 instead of 8 like they advertise. So if they sai 19-21 ILD I’d say it felt like an ILD of 30!