5 Weeks on new Memory Foam - Waking up Sore

Hi,

My husband and I bought a memory foam mattress from a local store that is well respected. (at least on yelp!) Our sales person was great and we liked that we were buying a product that was as natural as we could get for a memory foam mattress. The mattress felt great at the store, but I have been waking up very sore and I am hating the mattress. I went back to the store yesterday to try out some other options, but I’m not sure what would help. The salesperson said why I am sore depends on so many things and didn’t have any advice. I"m hoping you can help. I have a 90 day ability to trade in my mattress in the store, but don’t know what to trade to. My husband is not waking up sore at all - he is 195 lbs and I am 125 lbs.

You can see the specs for our mattress on their website. It’s the Stevie. http://austinnaturalmattress.com/product/eco-avail-5-10/

I am thinking of trading to a 9 inch Willie. You can see their memory foam options here: http://austinnaturalmattress.com/product_category/natural-memory-foam/

Thanks for any advice!

Kate

Hi rkate,

Here are the specs from the website:

  • What kind of sleepers are you and your husband (back, front, side)?
  • Where are you feeling pain? Do you have a history of back pain?

From a technical standpoint, the design of the mattress seems reasonable, though the density of the support layer is low. The only thing that stands out is the “transition layer foam” which suggests a softer foam than the “firm foundation layer.” If there is a “weak link” in your mattress, that would be it: 5" of memory foam is more than enough to conform to your body, and it requires sturdy support from below.

Another thing to consider is that this is a very soft mattress, and in our experience this amount of softness can often cause soreness in susceptible people. If this is the problem, a firmer mattress is what’s needed - changing to the “willie” will not fix your issues.

Cheers,
Novosbed

Thanks so much for your response! My husband and I tend to be mostly back sleepers. I don’t have any history of back pain and never had a problem with our 12 year old spring mattress.

So, the person at the mattress store was telling me that the Willie was the one that was the next firmest of this line of mattresses, and then the “Jimi” was even firmer than that. Looking at the specifications, do you think the Jimi or the Willie are not firmer than the “Stevie”?

Hi rkate,

I would tend to agree with Novosed (not suprisingly :)) and it’s very possible that the issues you are having are from a mattress that is too soft and compromising the alignment of your spine and/or joints.

There are some mattress testing guidelines linked in post #1 here and some other links to information which may help but your own personal testing will always be more accurate than any “theory at a distance” when it comes to making the best choice in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences). Paying close attention to your support/alignment is perhaps the most important part of a successful mattress choice because you can always adjust the comfort of a mattress that is a little too firm.

I would also be cautious with the Willie because the second layer down is only 3.5 lbs which is a little on the low side and in combination with the 1.5 lb polyfoam below it still has 6" of what is likely to be soft foam (4" of memory foam and a 2" transition layer) which may still be too much soft material for you and may have an even bigger “weak link” than the mattress you already have (lower density memory foam). I would tend to choose a mattress with 4 lb memory foam and up.

I would also tend towards a mattress with thinner layers of soft foam on top so you are closer to the support layers of the mattress and your heavier pelvic area has less chance of sinking down too far and putting you out of alignment (which is what I suspect may be contributing to your soreness).

It would also be helpful as Novosbed also suggested to know more specifics about the “symptoms” you are experiencing but back sleepers generally need even less thickness and softness in the comfort layers than side sleepers.

Phoenix

Hi rkate,

It appears that the “Stevie” is the softest (“super soft” top layer), and that the “Jimi” and “Willie” are slightly firmer, but still considered “soft”; without knowing the ILDs of the foam, it is impossible to say with certainty.

Phoenix nailed it (as usual :slight_smile: ) - back sleepers usually require less conforming material, and a little more support.

Novosbed

Thanks so much to both of you for all of the information!

To answer your question my entire back is often just sore in the morning. It stretches from my lower to upper back. I’m thinking that you maybe right, that the support is not enough for me. The Jimi has these layers:

2″ of 4.5lb soft Natural Soy Based Eco Memory Foam
2″ of 3.5lb Enhanced Punched Layer Natural Soy Based Eco Memory Foam
5″ of High Density Natural Soy Based Firm foundation base layer
1″ Rebound Base Layer

It sounds like you both have concerns about the other options from that line of beds - the Willie and the Jimi because the second layer is only 3.5lb. The only other brand option that I can trade to in this store, is a line by FXI, called the Rejuvigel. Are you familiar with this line?

The website does not have density information and the store said they didn’t have it either. I could try to contact the manufacturer and find out the density.

Thanks,
Kate

Hi rkate,

Your aches and pains are typical of someone sleeping on mattresses that is too soft.

3.5lb density is on the low side: at Novosbed we are not comfortable with anything less than 3.7lb foam, Phoenix would suggest 4lb (though 3.7 and 4lb could be the same thing depending on how the foam is measured: see here).

My concern is less with the 3.5lb density (though this will not be as durable as something higher) than it is with the mattress being too soft (firmness is often independent of density).

I don’t know much about the Rejuvigel brand, but perhaps they have a medium-firm model you can try. Getting foam densities (and other specifications) from many companies is laughably impossible, but you can certainly try (their number is 1-800-366-2194). If you could post your findings here, that would be great!

Cheers,
Novosbed

Hi rkate,

You can read a little more about the new Rejuvigel line here but as Novosbed mentioned it’s not that likely you will be able to find out the foam specs (which is odd because Anatomic Global is owned by FXI which manufactures the foam).

Guidelines always have “fuzzy edges” and when you are at one side or the other of the range then using “best judgement” would be the way to decide. Foam is not manufactured to exact tolerances and there will always be variances in any batch so choosing a mattress that may be just outside the guidelines in some way would be a matter of “best judgement” and would depend on specific circumstances, budget, and personal criteria based on your own personal value equation.

Foam quality has little to do with the suitability of a mattress and both are important parts of making a good choice. No matter what the quality or value of a mattress if it’s not suitable for your specific needs and preferences then it would not be suitable for you to sleep on and would have little value to you.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix and Novosbed,

My husband and I were able to go back to the store today to try out some other options. I am hesitant to try the Rejuvigel line and I agree that the Willie and Jimi were also too soft. They had another World Bed Studio that was a new option. They have requested the specs for this - but I pretty out of our priceline - $3500.

We did try a latex that is more reasonably priced and is more supportive. It wasn’t has bouncy as some of the other Latex mattresses we have tried It is designed to be more of a transitional between a latex and memory foam. It is made by a local Austin company, called “Natural Rest Collection”. The specs said that it has:

6 inch latex support base
2 inch slow recovery latex

Can you tell from that information if this is a well built mattress? This seemed like a good compromise of having some softness, but more support that our current Stevie.

Kate

Hi rkate,

You didn’t mention the type or blend of the latex but most latex is a good quality and durable material so there are no obvious weak links in the mattress in terms of materials (assuming these are the only layers in the mattress and that the mattress is 8" thick). With a 2" comfort layer you would likely be sinking in to the firmer base layer as well so the odds that this type of design would be too soft is lower (although I don’t know the firmness of the layers).

Slow recovery latex also has similarities to memory foam in terms of feel and response but of course it’s always important to make sure that your testing indicates that the mattress is suitable in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences).

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,

We finally exchanged our mattress during our guaranteed period. We decided to go with a latex mattress, because I was very worried about the comfort of the memory foam after our bad experience. Their main line of latex was pure latex bliss. We went with the Pamper, because I was really worried about the mattress being to soft. And I remember that you can always make it softer, not firmer. Plus, cost was a concern, with latex costing much more than I was anticipating paying for a mattress.

Well now we have a Pamper and it is definitely too hard. I would love your opinion on a topper. I have been reading your mattress forums and I found your recommended websites for toppers. I believe that we will use one of those. Most of them seem to allow us to exchange if not satisfied in the first 90 days.

I am thinking from what I have read on your mattress forum, I should probably get a latex 2 inch topper, but I am not sure how thick and what kind. Any advice you have, would be great.

Thanks for any help!

Kate

Hi rkate,

I’m not at all surprised that the Pamper is too firm because it’s the firmest of the lineup and there is only 2" of latex in between you and the 40 ILD support core.

Post #8 here and the posts it links to has some guidelines for choosing a topper depending on whether you are looking for “a touch to a little” or “a little to a fair bit” or “a fair bit or a lot” more softness in your mattress based on your experience on your mattress…

A good “average” choice for a latex topper would be in the range of 2" and for most people … 19 - 24 ILD would be in the “soft” range. Very light body types may prefer 14 ILD which is “ultra soft” while heavier body types may prefer 28 ILD and higher but the “feeling” of softness varies by body type, sleeping position and individual perception along with the thickness and ILD of the topper.

“Just enough” in terms of softness and thickness is usually better than too much of either because a little firmer or a little thinner will generally be less risky for spinal alignment.

Phoenix

Thanks Phoenix!

I appreciate all of your advice. We are looking at the Brooklyn Bedding online store. They have a 2 inch latex topper in lots of variations of firmness. We are considering a 24.

From your response, this looks like it good be a good middle of the road option.

Anything you think we are missing?

Kate

Hi rkate,

No … not if it matches your experience in the guidelines and you need a “little to a fair bit” more softness then it would make a good choice and it’s also a good “average” choice as well that would work well for many people.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,

We have been sleeping a week now with the 2 inch 24 ILD from Brooklyn Bedding on our PLB Pamper bed. It is an improvement from just the Pamper, but still feels pretty firm for us. The memory foam was way too soft for me (as I talked about early on in this thread) so I am concerned about going too soft. We contacted Brooklyn Bedding at they suggest a 3 inch 19. That sounds pretty soft. Their next softest down is a 19 ILD. Going to a 3 inch with a 19 ILD sounded like a big change. Not being able to test it, I thought I would see what you thought.

Thanks!

Kate

Hi rkate,

I agree that would be a fairly big change when you are switching to softer latex and a thicker layer.

It’s difficult to compare latex with your experience on memory foam because memory foam is technically a softer material and the ILD changes with pressure, temperature, humidity, and the length of time it’s compressed and latex only responds to pressure. Most memory foam has an ILD in the range of under 10 to about 18 (usually under 15) but this is very misleading because of the temperature sensitivity and different response of memory foam. Latex is a more resilient and “supportive” material than most memory foam.

Each retailer or manufacturer may have their own preferences or thoughts when it comes to layering suggestions and there is no “right or wrong” because in the end the experience of each person is the only real “authority” but my own approach tends to be a little more conservative with thickness and softness because of the higher risks involved in using thicker and softer layers in terms of alignment and alignment issues are more difficult to “fix”. In the end though … only your own personal experience can really know which topper/mattress combination works best for you and because of all the variables between each person’s body type, sleeping style, and personal preferences it’s not unusual for some trial and error to be involved when you can’t test the specific combinations in person. This is particularly true for people who are more sensitive to smaller changes compared to people who seem to be able to “sleep on anything”. You may also find that because of your different weights that each of you will feel differently about the same combination and there may need to be some compromises in a topper with a single firmness on both sides but since you are both back sleepers I would be cautious about going too thick because there is more “room” for your pelvis to “travel” before it reaches the firmer support layer which can lead to a higher risk of alignment issues.

For most people 4" of softer latex would be easily enough to isolate them from the firmness of the layers below and 19 ILD would be on the lower end of what most people consider to be “soft” in terms of the surface “feel” but again all of this can vary tremendously between people and different sensitivities and preferences.

Phoenix