I also am a heavy person of 300 lbs. I have read that Chuck from Dreamfoam Bedding is in AZ. I would like one of his beds but cannot find him on the Internet as being here. Can you please giive me some contact info for him? I never thouht I would actually be able to try out his beds—only buy blind online Thanks.
Hi Marlarae3,
Their factory is in Phoenix and you can call to make an appointment to test their mattresses if you are local. The Dreamfoam contact number is here and the Brooklyn Bedding contact number is here.
Phoenix
hi thx for the quick reply I think I didn’t ask my question in the right way so will ask again with more detail. I know for any individual there is a diff feel from support and comfort is it a all latex or innerspring or poly or hybrid I also know that the higher the quality the longer the durability. but since for me it does not make a diff what type or hybrid its made of. my only concern is which type or combo will carry the longest my weight
p.s. I think this question represents a lot of people
thank you
Hi izzy,
There are many parts to what makes one mattress more durable than another for a specific person so this is a rather complex and relative question that can’t be answered in specific terms. It would depend on the specific design of the mattress as much as the materials themselves and also on how suitable your mattress choice was in terms of comfort and support (particularly support). For example if choose a mattress that is “on the edge” of being too soft for you then even the initial foam softening over the first few weeks could put you over the edge and the mattress may no longer be suitable for you even though the materials would not have worn out yet. In other words it would be “worn out” for you but not for someone else. If on the other hand you choose a mattress that has some “room” for softening and is still suitable for you after it goes through it’s initial softening and break in period (first 90 days or so) then further softening would be much slower and it would last you much longer.
There is more information about the many factors involved in durability in post #4 here (and the posts it links to) though that can help you decide whether one mattress or design is likely to be more durable than another. The most durable foam material would be latex and if you are looking for an innerspring then I would choose one that had low gauge (coils 12.5 - 13) and where the springs were connected together with helicals (not pocket coils) and were made to hold higher weights … and of course used high quality foam on top of the springs as well. Polyfoam in the range or 2.0 lbs or better, memory foam in the range of 5 lbs or better, and latex are all durable materials. Firmer versions of polyfoam and latex will be more durable than softer versions … especially in the upper layers.
Phoenix
thx to the respond so I see bottom line latex will be the most durable to carry my weight as best. so my next question is. which type talalay or Dunlop latex? and how should it be layered that it should perform the longest under my weight and also what type of latex 100% nr or blend
sorry for making it complex but since no one in my area has a clue what to offer me when I ask them point blank that im ready to spend $ for the best durable matt it should carry my weight so when I came across this site I noticed that at the end I will take the lead knowing exactly what to ask for
Hi izzy,
The choice between Talalay and Dunlop is a personal preference and not a matter of “better or worse”. You can read a little more about the differences between them in this article and in post #2 here. Because of the higher compression modulus of Dunlop (it gets firmer faster as you sink into it) I would probably lean towards Dunlop because of your greater weight (you won’t sink in quite as far as you would with the same softness level of Talalay) but your own experience would be a better guideline because both would be suitable for your weight in the right design and firmness level.
I can only speak to the quality or value of a mattress not to individual comfort choices but mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here which I linked earlier includes links to some generic guidelines which may be helpful. Your own testing and experience is the best way to choose both the type of latex, the firmness level, and the design of the mattress and will be more accurate than any “theory at a distance” I could provide.
I also place a high value on the knowledge and experience of the retailer or manufacturer you are dealing with and there may be some better options in your area that you don’t know about (unless you’ve found the closest list to your area on the forum already). If you let me know your city or zip I’d be happy to let you know of any I’m aware of.
Phoenix
thx to your respond and help to clear this out as I see I will ask that for the support it should be from Dunlop process so I remain with 3 questions #1 when you say Dunlop which version do you have in mind 100% natural or blend? #2 should it be from the highest ild to perform the longest? #2 regarding the comfort layers should it be as well from Dunlop to perform the longest?
phoenix as you see from all my posts that im strictly focusing on one thing that’s durability under my weight. so if that is the case it does not matter for me not the type not the feel not the personal preference the issue is here strictly which concept will hold up the longest
now according to your responds and links putting aside any personal preferences I got the feeling that the best durable material for support and comfort to hold up a load is from higher ILD made thru Dunlop process if this is correct can you pls guide me a place in Brooklyn N.Y. where I will be able to get help with this?
thx so much
Hi izzy,
Any type of latex could provide the support you need depending on its firmness. I would just make sure that your testing included Dunlop because it is a more dense material that gets firmer faster which in some designs can be useful. I would avoid a tendency to try to “pick” the best version of latex or think in “should and shouldn’t” terms as far as material … they are just different and which is more suitable for you would depend on the design and layering of the mattress … and on your preferences … not just on the type of latex used.
The post I linked talked about 100% natural Dunlop and both blended and 100% natural Talalay latex. All of these would make a good choice. Again I would avoid the temptation to think in terms of “better or worse” terms for latex when you are choosing between these three. They would all make a very good choice. Even blended Dunlop can also make a good and very durable choice that is less costly and more suitable for lower budgets but I wouldn’t go below a 50/50 blend in Dunlop.
In the same type of material and if all other things are equal … then a higher ILD will be more durable than a lower ILD yes. Of course an ILD that is too high (particularly in the comfort layers) may make the mattress unsleepable for you.
Again … as you can read in the post I linked … in the higher ILD’s that would be more appropriate for your weight … I don’t differentiate between the 3 types of latex I mentioned in terms of durability. They are a preference choice not a “better worse” or durability choice.
I hope you didn’t get that impression from my response and from the post I linked (it certainly didn’t say this). I wouldn’t differentiate between them in terms of durability in higher ILD’s.
The better options and possibilities I’m aware of in the NYC area are listed in post #2 here and there is also a more categorized list with more detailed descriptions of some of them in post #7 here.
Phoenix
phoenix thank you very much for your reply… what pillow will you suggest for a side and back sleeper since I feel that the right pillow can reflect on your sleep the same importantly as a mattress?
Hi izzy,
I certainly agree with you that pillows are an important part of providing good alignment for the head and neck in a sleeping system and there are basic and common “needs” involve in a pillow choice. Beyond the basic needs in a pillow … a pillow choice also involves more individual preferences than a mattress so I don’t suggest specific pillows for anyone because each person has their own unique personal preferences of material.
Having said that … the pillow thread here has some guidelines and links to information and resources that may be helpful.
Phoenix
hi phoenix and everyone else thx for the respond and this opportunity to get educated I did more research and had conversations with quite a few sellers and manufactures I must say I bumped in a really nice guy named petter from the mattress experts and guided me to a mattress made thru therapedic/eclips which he designed named medi coil ultimate permatuft which he claims that for a heavy weight person will be the best durable mattress so my question is does anyone have info about this mattress?
also phoenix tell me if im right on this>I think I asked it already but I will ask it again since I don’t have a clear answer yet. from my research I realized that when a heavy person asks which support core will be the most durable to carry his or her weight the answer doesn’t have to be so complexed because there is no issue of PPP or anything like that since the question is strictly which product will carry the weight as it best. is it 364 12 1/2g coil unit or 2.5 poly foam or Dunlop or talalay ild44 what I mean by this is that it has to be a straight forward answer for what support will be the strongest. now I know that the answer can be concrete but still I would like to know from within the mattress materials… for example when you go inside a elevator and there is a sign 2500lb max this means no matter how the weight is distributed it only holds up until 2500lb period. back to mattresses I understand if when a guy points out a specific idea what he likes to feel and it should be the most durable I understand that im limited to tell him point blank that one will be the most durable since PPP came in to the picture… now for comfort if someone asks which is the most durable I understand that it can not be a straight specific answer since PPP came in to play if he likes it or not. bec the word comfort itself is a custom word maybe its comfortable for you but not for me maybe that’s hard for you but med for me maybe this will wear out under your weight in that amount of years but for my weight a shorter period of time. what I can say is only from within each type which one is high quality or how its made but feeling or how fast it will wear out under his weight is strictly unguidable
pls forgive me if I sound a little strict or critical but really im not. I just like to get a straight answer or a well explanation I should understand why there is no straight answer for this question
thank you again very much for making possible people to get involved and educated in this subject
Hi izzy,
The quality/density of the foam materials in a mattress are the single biggest factor in its durability and as you can see in the description here … they don’t list this information. One of the most important secondary factors is the firmness/softness of the materials (softer materials are more ubject to mechanical stresses than firmer materials). Without this information (the density of the foam) there is no way to make meaningful comparisons with other mattresses either in terms of quality and durability or in terms of value. The coils are certainly strong (12.75 gauge which are very strong coils) so they wouldn’t present an issue with good insulator materials to even out their support but the foam (or fiber) materials over them are the ones that will soften and degrade most quickly
When you see claims like this …
And if the claims don’t include the specific quality of the materials then there is no way to validate the claim which is just marketing information in that case. It is also wise to take absolute claims such as “strongest mattress on the market” with a grain of salt since there are certainly materials that are more durable than HD polyfoam.
That’s not to say that these aren’t relatively durable mattresses … only that there is no way to make meaningful assessments about the claims and no matter what the quality of the foam there are other materials that are more durable than polyfoam.
I’m not quite clear on what you are asking here. Comfort, support, and durability are not related to each other in most cases. What you need is a mattress that has support layers or components that provides firm enough support under the heavier parts of your body (pelvis) to maintain neutral alignment and comfort materials that provide you with the pressure relief you need. Whatever materials or components are used to provide this support it needs to be durable enough to maintain its firmness and stay close to its orignial properties over a long period of time. A mattress that provides you with good PPP when it is new may not continue to do so as the materials soften, degrade, or break down. You can read more about the factors involved in durability in post #4 here and the posts it links to. In other words … durability is a measure of how long a mattress continues to provide you with the comfort and support you need for restful and healthy sleep … not how long it takes for the material to break down completely. It’s also true that a mattress that provides you with good PPP when it is new will tend to break down from the top down so if the support layers are suitable at the beginning when it is new the odds are better that they will remain this way over the lifetime of the mattress because it’s the top layers that are the most likely to soften and break down.
Body type and weight will also make a big difference because the issue with mattresses (unlike elevators) is the softening under the heavier parts of the body … not the “all or nothing” failure of the whole layer (or an elevator). The parts of the mattress that are underneath the areas of the body with the greatest weight will soften and break down faster than the other areas of the mattress so even if a layer would work well for “most of the body” … if it isn’t durable enough under the heavier areas of the body then it won’t continue to provide you with the comfort or support you need because one part of your body will sink in deeper than it did when the mattress was new and you could be sleeping out of alignment.
Hope this help you make sense of your “durability” questions and how durability is related to maintaining the comfort and support of the mattress.
Phoenix
phoenix thx for replying I know at the end I will get the best mattress for myself thx to this site
phoenix lets portend that you weigh 400lb and you are a side and back sleeper what will you take for your self/
Hi izzy,
[quote]phoenix thx for replying I know at the end I will get the best mattress for myself thx to this site
phoenix lets portend that you weigh 400lb and you are a side and back sleeper what will you take for your self/ [/quote]
I truly don’t know what I would choose other than saying I would base my choice on PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) and in addition to this I would make sure that I chose the most durable version possible of the materials or components I preferred in all layers of the mattress (so that the odds were better that the original feel and performance of the mattress lasted for as long as possible after the initial break in and adjustment period). If I was choosing latex I would probably choose 12" of latex vs the more typical 8" - 9" (or sometimes less) but even this would depend on my testing and on the specifics of my body type (not all 400 lb people have the same body type) and my sleeping positions. If I was choosing memory foam I would choose higher densities (nothing less than 5 lb density) and if I was choosing an innerspring I would make sure it was “built like a tank” using lower gauge steel or other specs that indicate the innerspring has more steel (see this article and post #10 here) with appropriate and durable comfort layers above it. I think “theory at a distance” or mistaking personal preferences for “better or worse” choices is not a useful way to choose a mattress and either personal testing or if this isn’t possible with the materials you prefer then more detailed conversations with specific manufacturers or retailers is always the best way to make the best possible choices that would be “durable enough” for you.
I have no experience with how any specific mattress would feel and perform for me (as opposed to someone else) if I had a different body weight than I have so I really can’t answer this question based on any “theory” that has no personal reference point based on my own experience other than saying “make sure you use durable materials no matter which type of materials or combinations you prefer”.
My personal preferences (which apply only to me and nobody else) lean towards the “feel” of Talalay latex (my daughter for example doesn’t share my preferences and prefers Dunlop) and if I was heavier I would probably use firmer versions of the same material to accommodate and adapt to my greater weight unless my testing indicated that a higher body weight also changed my preferences. I would probably also consider Dunlop latex but not because latex of either type is necessarily “better” than other materials such as memory foam, high density or high resilience polyfoam, or innersprings with “lots of steel” (only each person can decide for themselves which materials are “better” than another based on their own criteria) but only because it’s my personal preference.
Phoenix
which support core will hold up longer overall. A 5.5 lx65 polyfoam or innerspring 336 12 3/4g under latex comfort layers
Hi izzy,
I don’t know of any comparative studies or tests that would answer your question in specific or exact terms and it would also depend on the use of the mattress (foam can withstand more abuse or “sudden shock” than steel springs which is why most innersprings do best with a box spring or some type of “shock absorber” underneath them) and other factors unique to each type of support system (such as the firmness of the polyfoam and the shape of the Bonnell) so the simple and most accurate answer would be “I don’t know”.
Some more speculative thoughts include …
The density of the polyfoam would make a difference (I can’t tell from the specs you listed) and it would depend on the specific design of the mattresses you are comparing (the other components in the mattress including the insulator over the innerspring) but if the polyfoam was good quality (in the range of 1.8 lbs or preferably even 2.0 lbs or higher) I would treat them as rough equivalents in practical terms.
To some degree it would almost be like trying to compare the durability of the wheels of a car when it’s the tires that are most likely to wear out.
The type of Bonnell coil that you are probably referring to (see the L & P page here) is very strong and has more active steel than many higher coil count mattresses with higher gauges and with a good insulator that will protect the foam from compressing into the coils it is used as the support system of some very durable mattresses (also assuming that the 336 is the coil count for a full size). If you are comparing the same type of coil with other similar stats (number of turns, gauge, height etc) then this would be more durable than a 312 coil but less durable than a 364 or 380 Bonnell.
The same would hold true for polyfoam and 2.0 lbs would be more durable than 1.8 lbs and 2.2 lbs more durable yet (beyond this the density of HD polyfoam may not make much difference depending on how the density was achieved) and firmer would be more durable than softer (but probably require more foam above it) but none of these would likely be a weak link of the mattress depending on how much compression forces they were subject to and the thickness of the comfort layers.
There is an interesting and informative article here on innersprings including Bonnell coils.
Overall I would put both of them into the “durable” group used as a base layer for a very heavy person (with a suitable insulator in the case of the Bonnell and at least 1.8 lbs density in the case of the polyfoam) and with a latex comfort layer that was appropriate for the person on top of them (that absorbed most of the compression forces) I wouldn’t consider either of them to be a “weak link” of a mattress although I would personally try to choose a higher coil count if this was available for the Bonnell (364 or higher) and higher density (than 2.0 or higher) for the polyfoam if I was 400 lbs as an extra margin for safety although again it would depend on how much of the compression forces were going through the comfort layers. In both cases I would decide between them based more on the feel and performance of the mattress overall (and of course on the quality of the foam comfort layers which for the sake of this comparison would be latex of the same type) than on the durability of the support system.
A latex base layer would likely be more durable than both of them.
Phoenix
thx so much for sharing with us your knowledge
phoenix tell me if this is for me the right direction the highest ild that I can get in Dunlop 6’’ for the base and for comfort a combination of talalay layers from the higher ilds suited for me?
also I looked up the company latexco do you know any info of their product eco cores 6’’ is it the standard Dunlop?
Hi Izzy,
In terms of PPP … only your own testing and experience can tell you for certain. The “next best” way to choose would be based on the suggestions of the manufacturer or retailer themselves because they have more knowledge and experience with 'fitting" their mattresses to different body types and sleeping styles than anyone.
In terms of durability though it would certainly be a good choice. If the comfort layer(s) are separate (not glued) in a zip cover then when they soften and break down sooner than the deeper layers (a mattress will usually soften and break down from the top down) then you can replace a layer individually rather than the whole mattress which is also a benefit.
Latexco makes latex and also supplies latex from other companies (such as Latex Green 100% natural Dunlop and Radium blended and all natural Talalay). You can see some of the types of latex they supply here but the manufacturer of the mattress will (or should) be able to tell you the type and blend of the latex that is in your mattress. Many companies “rename” the latex in their mattresses to make them seem different from other manufacturers but knowing the type and blend of latex “cuts through” all the different names that you will encounter for the same or very similar material. In general though if it doesn’t specify Talalay then it would usually be Dunlop (blended or 100% natural) either made in an individual mold or with a continuous pour process. If it’s a 6" core then it’s made in a mold if it comes from Latexco.
Phoenix
phoenix do you know of any case (maybe with wheels) or bag or anything which will be ideal to insert the layers inorder to be able to carry the mattress with me?
Hi izzy,
You could cover the mattress or individual layers in plastic mattress bags like this (depending on the thickness and weight of your mattress) and then put them in a mattress box like this to make them easier to carry and store (latex is very floppy) or you could use any plastic covering and fold the layers in half and then in two or three (depending on thickness and size) and put them in the bag or plastic and then inside a large packing box that will hold them (one or more layers per box depending on the thickness of the layer and the size of the box).
If you use a bag with no holes you can even use a vacuum cleaner to shrink the layers (see here).
Phoenix