Advice on new mattress that I'm considering, please.

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

Phoenix, as with most visitors I stumbled across your site while in the midst of various Google searches looking to educate myself on mattresses, how to shop for them, and where to shop for them. You’re site is incredible. Thank you for all of the useful information. I almost feel bad for asking for more advice as you already provide so much, but you’ve shown that you’re ready to comment on mattresses people are considering and that’s what I need.

I’m 6’2", 180-lbs, sleep a bit warm, and sleep in multiple positions, but primarily on my side. I’ve shopped at two local retailers here in Austin thus far and am about to go visit three or four more. I’ve read your compliments of Urban Mattress and that’s where I found the bed I really like thus far. The owner was extremely helpful, educated me a lot, and had me test out a number of beds over the two hours I was there. Great guy. This was the first place I tried latex mattresses and I really liked them.

My favorite was the BioTemp Retreat Luxury Firm Euro Top made by Sherwood which I think is also under their “EvoSleep” line (these long, complicated names get kind of ridiculous). I tested it extensively. It was very comfortable and I definitely felt it was providing the comfort and support that you mention. It also felt like it would sleep relatively cool. I know you like Urban Mattress. I’m assuming you probably like Sherwood.

You can see the specs/layers on Sherwood’s site, page 4 at this link:
http://sherwoodbedding.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/EVO_BioTemp_Digis_032013_CPA3.pdf

And pictures here:
http://sherwoodbedding.com/evosleep-bio-temp/

I know you would probably like to see some more specifics on densities and size of certain layers, but I thought this was at least a good start (didn’t know to ask for those when I was in the store, but can call and get them obviously). A major concern that you’ve made clear on your site is the use of low quality polyfoam in the comfort layers.

The graphic shows layers of H.D. (which I know from your site is lower quality then H.R.) Super Soft Soy-Based Comfort Foam and Super-H.D. Soy-Based Upholstery Grade Convoluted Foam in the support layers. And Hyper-Soft Soy-Based Quilt Foam in the comfort layers from what I can see.

I’m hoping that the simple fact that the mattress is made by a better regional manufacturer versus one of the mass-market manufacturers means they’re building the mattresses right even when using H.D. versus H.R. foam. What do you think? As you know Urban Mattress doesn’t really do sales, but they’re discounting this one because it’s the last of this style of this model, the new ones are built the same but just have cosmetic differences so don’t look the same. This brings the price down from $2,600 to $2,079.

At a lot of places, I would be tempted to call “b.s.” on this, but gimmicks didn’t seem to be the owner’s style as he meets all the qualifications you mention in looking for a local expert. The company also has a ton of great reviews on Yelp which you have to take with a grain of salt but is still a positive sign that they do things right. That leads me to think it’s a good deal. Any comments and help are appreciated. Thanks again.

2

Hi ATX2014,

Like you … in my own conversations with several Urban Mattress stores I have found them to be knowledgeable and helpful. They have also been willing to provide the specs for their mattresses when possible but the ability of a retailer to provide the specs for their mattresses is always limited to the transparency of the manufacturer itself so it can depend on which mattress you are considering. A forum search on Sherwood (you can just click the link) will bring up more information and feedback about them.

You can see some of my thoughts about Sherwood Bedding in post #2 here and as you can see in post #2 here I would consider some of their mattresses but I would be cautious with others depending on the specifics of the materials inside them.

[quote]You can see the specs/layers on Sherwood’s site, page 4 at this link:
sherwoodbedding.com/wp-content/uploads/2...igis_032013_CPA3.pdf

And pictures here:
sherwoodbedding.com/evosleep-bio-temp/

I know you would probably like to see some more specifics on densities and size of certain layers, but I thought this was at least a good start (didn’t know to ask for those when I was in the store, but can call and get them obviously). A major concern that you’ve made clear on your site is the use of low quality polyfoam in the comfort layers.[/quote]

As you mentioned the description is missing the information about the density/quality of the layers and I would definitely want to know the specifics of the materials inside this mattress (see this article) so you can make sure there aren’t any weak links in terms of durability (see post #4 here) and so you can make more meaningful comparisons with other mattresses that are among your finalists based on the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Celsion (now called Talalay GL fast response) is a good quality material but I would especially want to know the density of the polyfoam layers in the mattress.

I’m not sure what size you are considering or whether it’s the mattress only or includes the foundation but you are in a fairly high budget range that would include some high quality mattresses (including some that are all latex) and in this budget range I would want to know there were no questionable materials in my mattress.

Phoenix

3

Thanks, Phoenix. That’s a good start. I’ll see if I can get the specifics on the layers tomorrow morning now that I know what to ask for (like I said, didn’t know when I went in). Two things that I didn’t clarify - I’m buying a queen size and the foundation was only an extra $80.

Interesting that you brought-up all latex. I completed my shopping at various stores today and, I have narrowed it down to the EvoSleep BioTemp from my original post and two all latex beds from two retailers that were on your Austin list: Austin Natural Mattress and Sleep RITE.

At Austin Natural Mattress, I really liked the “Nature” by PureLatex Bliss on sale for $2,219. I have a feeling you may have some familiarity with this bed, but the specs are pretty simple:

Mattress Design:

10" Mattress Height
4" Pressure Relief Layer: Talalay Latex
6" extra firm talalay latex support layer

All from Latex International which owns PureLatex Bliss as you likely know.

More details here: http://austinnaturalmattress.com/products/nature-mattress-purelatexbliss

Their warranty is incredible: 20-year, full replacement, non-prorated with only a ¾-inch body impression (industry standard is a 1 & ¾-inch).

At Sleep RITE, I liked two variations of basically the same bed - the Lake Travis (12" on sale for $2,100) and the Lake Austin (10" on sale for $1,800). Also pretty simple specs:

Made from Natural Talalay Latex:

36-lb all latex core with...
Three 2" 26-lb comfort layers (the smaller Lake Austin only has two of the 2" comfort labels). 
Also has an organic cotton bamboo cover.

He mentioned the manufacturer, but I unfortunately didn’t write it down. I know their latex has preservatives unlike Austin Natural, but not sure that bothers me too much though I would generally prefer less chemicals. 12 year complete warranty, plus 2 years prorated.

More here: http://www.sleepriteaustin.com/#!product/prd1/1020167094/lake-travis-latex-mattresses

I would appreciate any thoughts, feedback, and advice on these two beds. Both the “Lake” beds and the PureLatex Bliss were very comfortable and seem like they would sleep nice and cool. Though I would still give at least a slight edge in pure comfort to the EvoSleep, but I know those foam layers have to be verified b/c they could be weak links. I’ll get back to you if I am able to get those details. Thanks again for your help.

4

Hi ATX2014,

[quote]At Austin Natural Mattress, I really liked the “Nature” by PureLatex Bliss on sale for $2,219. I have a feeling you may have some familiarity with this bed, but the specs are pretty simple:

Mattress Design:

10" Mattress Height
4" Pressure Relief Layer: Talalay Latex
6" extra firm talalay latex support layer

All from Latex International which owns PureLatex Bliss as you likely know.[/quote]

You can see the specs of the Nature here. It uses blended Talalay and Talalay GL fast response (which is blended Talalay with a phase change gel added into the latex) in the top layer which are all good quality materials and there are no weak links in this mattress.

[quote]At Sleep RITE, I liked two variations of basically the same bed - the Lake Travis (12" on sale for $2,100) and the Lake Austin (10" on sale for $1,800). Also pretty simple specs:

Made from Natural Talalay Latex:

36-lb all latex core with…
Three 2" 26-lb comfort layers (the smaller Lake Austin only has two of the 2" comfort labels).
Also has an organic cotton bamboo cover.

He mentioned the manufacturer, but I unfortunately didn’t write it down. I know their latex has preservatives unlike Austin Natural, but not sure that bothers me too much though I would generally prefer less chemicals. 12 year complete warranty, plus 2 years prorated.[/quote]

The name of the manufacturer isn’t as important as the type and quality of the materials. This mattress also uses Talalay latex but they don’t specify whether it’s blended or 100% natural (when Talalay latex is called “natural” it often refers to blended Talalay and if it’s called “all natural” or “100% natural” refers to latex that only uses natural rubber). If it’s the blended Talalay it would be the same material as in the Pure Latex Bliss Nature (except it doesn’t have the top layer of Talalay GL) and if it’s the 100% natural it would be the more costly 100% natural latex.

I’m not sure what you mean by “preservatives” in the latex. All latex uses some kind of antioxidant or antiozonate in the formulation to protect it from oxidation.

There are no weak links in either of these mattresses either.

All of these mattresses would certainly be well worth considering.

Phoenix

5

Thanks again, Phoenix. Your input is extremely helpful. Urban Mattress provided me with the spec sheet on the EvoSleep BioTemp Retreat Luxury Firm in PDF form. The PDF is attached but, to make it easier to read, I’ve type the information here:

QUILT SPECS:
• Outlast

• Natural Rayon FB fiber

• 7/8" Hyper Soft

• 7/8" 1.2/15 S Soft

MATTRESS BUILD:
• .9" 21 ILD Celsion Latex

• .9" 19 ILD Talalay Latex

• 7/8" 1.5/23 Topper

• 7/8" 1.45/40 Firm Topper

• 2.6" 19 ILD Talalay Core

• 3.5"o 2.5" 1.8/32 Convoluted

• 3.5"o 2.5" 1.8/32 Convoluted

What’s your analysis on these details? Overall durability/life expectancy?

I really like the overall feel, the comfort, and the support of this one. I feel it will be ideal for my sleeping styles - various positions, but primarily side. I also feel like it will sleep fairly cool which is a plus for me. Again, it’s a queen size for $2,079.

Any other comments or suggestions are welcome. At this point, I’m down to my final three so can go spend more time on each and make a decision.

Lastly - do you have a section or posts on the forum where you discuss pillows? If so, can post them in a reply as I would like to read them before buying new pillows. Thanks again. I really appreciate your help.

6

Hi ATX2014,

If you look at the top 5.3" of this mattress then you can see that 3.5" of it uses polyfoam that is less than 1.8 lbs which would be more than the guidelines that I would normally suggest for a one sided mattress of “around an inch or so” that are in post #3 here. The quilting layers by themselves are “on the edge” but by themselves aren’t more than the 2" or more which would be a bigger cause for caution but there are an additional 1 3/4 inches of polyfoam that are about 1.5 lb density underneath the top 1.8" of latex that would also affect durability which would put it over the threshold I would be comfortable with in a mattress in this price range even though they are deeper in the mattress and underneath the latex which would add to their durability. If you were in a lower weight range then this may not be as significant an issue and the specs are better than you would find in many major brand mattresses but they are still what I would consider to be “marginal” or “risky” for a mattress in this price range.

There isn’t a way to quantify or predict the useful life of a mattress relative to each person because of the many variables involved (see post #2 here). One of the variables also includes where you are in the range of comfort/support that is suitable for you and how quickly any foam softening takes you across the thresholds between “sleeping well on a mattress” to “sleeping OK” to “tolerating the mattress” to “deciding to replace it” which are all very subjective and relative to each person (see post #2 here). It would be fair to say though that it would be less durable than a mattress that used higher quality materials in the upper layers of the mattress and didn’t have the same “weak links” in their design (including the mattresses you were considering in your previous post) and that in the budget range you are looking at it would be a more risky choice.

The main pillow thread here and the links it includes to some of the other more useful topics that also discuss pillows should be helpful :slight_smile:

Phoenix

7

Phoenix,

Your advice was very useful. I agree with your comments and, after my final round of testing, I decided that I liked the Pure Latex Bliss bed better so am going to buy that one.

I thought you might want know that a couple of stores you list as Austin recommendations post #2 here have closed - Sleepworld.net and Austinmattress.net are no longer.

Now off to decide on the pillows. While testing at Urban Mattress, I really liked the Bedgear brand, particularly their latex option so maybe that’s the answer. Thanks again for your help.

8

Hi ATX2014,

Congratulations on your new mattress … the Nature is certainly a very high quality choice :slight_smile:

Both of these are still open. Sleepworld was purchased by another manufacturer in Houston so for the moment they don’t have a local presence but they still make regular customer service trips to Austin. Austin Mattress has just moved.

The pillow thread here may be useful.

I hope you have the chance to share your feedback once you’ve received your new mattress and have had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.

Phoenix

9

Hello ATX2014,

I know it has only been about a week since you purchased your mattress. What do you think so far? I am considering the Pure Latex Bliss either the Nature or the Beautiful. It would be really helpful to get your first impressions if you have slept on the mattress a few nights.

Thank you!

10

rocket29/Phoenix,

I actually just bought the bed and will be receiving it soon. I will post after I’ve spent a few nights on it.

11

Hi ATX2014,

It seems my previous “congratulations” were a few days premature … so congratulations once again :slight_smile:

Phoenix

12

rocket29/Phoenix,

As previously mentioned, I’m posting after sleeping on my new Pure Latex Bliss “Nature” for about two weeks. Very first impression, before even sleeping on it, was that it’s just obviously a high quality mattress. You can easily tell it’s very well made. “Next first impression” was that it’s firm. Comfortable, but firm. However, I expected that and knew it would take some time to break it in per my discussions with the salesmen during the buying process. I also new my body would take time to adjust to a new bed.

Both of those are happening more every night. My body has now acclimated and the mattress is definitely softening. There’s already a noticeable difference from the first night and I can tell that in the near future it will be perfectly broken in like the floor model I tested that convinced me to buy it. I’ve healed from a painful pulled lower back muscle from a few years ago, but my old mattress had become so soft that it absorbed me, didn’t offer enough support, and required enough effort to change positions that I woke up sometimes with soreness in my lower back. I haven’t felt that once in the morning over the past to weeks.

It’s also very comfortable from a temperature standpoint. Sleeps cooler than my previous mattress. I’m very happy overall. I really like the comfort, support, and definitely feel properly aligned on this mattress. Best of all, I know it’s only going to get better when it’s fully broken in and I’m confident it’s going to last a long time as they have the best warranty that I’ve seen. If you’ve tested out this mattress and liked it, I definitely recommend it. Feel free to ask me any questions and I’ll do my best to respond.

Phoenix - one last thank you. This site is a great resource.

13

Hi ATX2014,

Thanks for the update … I appreciate it :slight_smile:

Phoenix

14

We are sleeping on a Pure Latex Bliss Beautiful and love it. Tried the Nature and it proved a bit too firm for our aging, side sleeping bodies! (even with a 2" topper on it). My friend the tummy sleeper thought it was just right.

Both sleep cool as you said… I used to get really hot each night on our Simmons Beautyrest pillow top… not the Bliss latex! Both hubby and I haven’t slept this good in years.

Our beautiful is king size and is breaking in really nicely, other than a “ridge” of some sort down the middle… which seems a bit firmer than the sides. I assume this is where the two sides are glued together? I don’t mind a bit of ridge, but hopefully it may start breaking in a bit… we are laying in the middle off and on to see if that helps.

15

Hi scubamom,

This is fairly normal with larger size mattresses because the center will soften and break in at a slower pace than the parts of the mattress you sleep on. Sleeping in the middle can even things out and if your bedframe makes it possible you can also rotate a king mattress 1/4 turn and this will help even things out as well (see post #2 here).

It’s also possible that it could be related to any flex in your foundation because a split twin XL foundation (which is used with a king size) will have less flex in the center where the rigid sides of the foundation meet than in the middle of each side.

Phoenix

16

As I remember, the Pure Latex Bliss foundation is now a solid top (I think that’s what they delivered).

Otherwise, I read somewhere that kind size latex mattresses are two twins glued together?? If so, would that create the ridge?

17

Hi scubamom,

As far as I’m aware … their foundation still has a cardboard surface over widely spaced slats. They apparently showed a new foundation at the last Vegas Show but with some of the issues they are working through with their bankruptcy I don’t think they’ve introduced them yet and your mattress probably wouldn’t have it.

Latex International has two mold sizes (twin XL and queen) so their King sizes are fabricated from two twin XL cores that are glued together. The glue they use is a flexible latex based glue so it doesn’t affect the feel or performance of the layer and it’s unlikely to be the cause of any ridges in your mattress.

Outside of the possibilities I’ve mentioned … it’s possible that there is a defect in the materials in your mattress and if there are impressions or dips in your mattress that are more than .75" deep then it would probably qualify as a warranty issue (you can see their warranty here). In most cases defects in a mattress will show up early in the life of the mattress.

Phoenix

18

Hmmm… we stripped the 2" bliss topper off and down to the mattress and can visually see a definite ridge and two dips on each side where we sleep! Dips are now 1/2" deep.

The ridge in the middle is definitely hard and not giving. Wonder if it is the foundation?

I KNEW I should have had a platform bed made a few years ago! :slight_smile:

19

Hi scubamom,

You could try the mattress on the floor for a few nights to see if it makes a difference.

Phoenix

20

We turned it 180 degrees, took the topper off and while it still has the ridge and dips, will try it tonight. Next week when we remake the bed, we’ll drag it off slightly and look at the foundation. From the looks of the top of the bed, it appears that it MUST be the foundation. I’ll also call the company we bought it from and ask them how the foundation was made.

IF in fact it is the cardboard (cardboard? You must be kidding, right?) top of the foundation, then I guess the best solution is to build or find a WELL MADE solid top foundation. Any suggestions? Seems like the tempurpedic we tried had something like that?