Alaska Struggles

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

Hello all, I’ve been lurking for a while now and have read through most of the articles, all of the “mattresses” information, and the “5 steps to your perfect mattress”. Plus I’ve searched and scanned the forum. Although I am exceedingly more informed on mattresses and their construction than I ever imagined I would be I am still a bit (actually a lot…) overwhelmed. My wife and I are in need of a new mattress b/c like so many we bought from a local “big brand” store 3 years ago based completely on in-store, instant feel which l we now believe led to the mattress basically failing within a few months.

The search for a new mattress started after stays in various levels of hotels over the last year or so made us realized we were sleeping MUCH better and waking up with WAY LESS back pain than we do at home. So I googled “hyatt matress” with the intention of buying the exact model we enjoyed on our last trip, which after a fairly short amount of internet time led me to this sight, which in turn quickly changed my mind (actually the “Do not buy a hotel mattress!” header is actually what first linked me to this site.). That was over two months ago. I am only marginally closer to deciding what mattress to purchase.

As the title of this thread indicates, the biggest issue I’m currently having in the lack of quality options locally available. I went through this thread, specifically post #7;

https://forum.mattressunderground.com/t/finding-this-forum-bittersweet

Unfortunately Baily’s, Mattress Ranch, and Sadler’s no longer offer any quality mattress options. And, as has been noted, the sale’s people were decidedly unhelpful due to a simple lack of knowledge. Plus the lady at Sadler’s became rather condescending as soon as I started to ask about foam densities. I didn’t stay long…

However Treeforms and Nerlands both offered high quality Latex matresses but in limited quantity and at a very high cost ($5000+/-). Treeforms had one king size Pure Talalay Bliss matress left in the state and Nerlands offers Savvy Rest. We both liked the Talalay Bliss but I was not wanting to spend that much unless I had too. After laying on a number of mattresses we have found, in general, we don’t care for the absolute softest or firmest options but have a fairly large middle range of “feel” that would be more than acceptable. We are both most concerned about the “posture and alignment” of the PPP as our current bed has really highlighted the increased sensitivities of both of our backs.

So, after that long winding intro and story (apologies if you have made it this far), does anyone have any suggestions for additional options in the Anchorage area? I’m pretty hesitant to try a DIY as I really don’t think I have adequate knowledge/experience/expertise. Plus, if I was able to order something I was confident with (DIY or otherwise) online I’m concerned shipping would wipe out any savings? I am headed to Seattle in two weeks for work an was thinking of taking an extra day to look at more options but my wife won’t be with me and I’ll still have shipping issues. But I’d at least like to look while there. Any specific Seattle options people recommend? If anyone has additional thoughts, options, or ideas I would love to hear them and am open to anything! There is so much information and so many options what I feel like I really need is a personal assistant to help me select the right mattress. Someone that can explain the different options as I try them, while being able to understand what I am feeling, not let me forget anything, and confirm proper spine alignment. Which really isn’t realistic… :slight_smile: Even the man at Nerlands with the Savvy Rest (Mr. Nerland himself actually) who was perfectly nice still felt much more of a salesman than helping me make the best, most appropriate selection. (He also tried steering me towards Beutyrest Black mattress which are almost as expensive but not as detailed in the materials they use. At least from what I can tell).

Much thanks for your time and this site. And again I apologize for the long winded first post.

Cory

2

Hi Pura Vida,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:

I know it can be challenging finding quality options in more remote locations, especially outside of the contiguous United States.

Regarding finding quality retailers in your area, I have discontinued the provision of listings of potential retailers in various geographic regions (unless they are already approved site members), because of the difficulty in maintaining such lists in a retail landscape that is constantly changing, and most importantly the confusion it was creating with the consumer members who incorrectly assumed that these businesses had indeed gone through the strict vetting and qualification process that is part of becoming an approved member of The Mattress Underground. Such an assumption is unfair to both the consumers seeking assistance, as well as the very businesses and manufacturers who have indeed qualified the be members here of The Mattress Underground.

You can perform a forum search on Seattle or Anchorage or any other area and see what other businesses have been discussed in that region which may be helpful to you.

Whatever business you’re considering, I would always confirm that any retailer or manufacturer that you wish to visit is completely transparent (see this article) and also make sure that any mattress that you are considering meets the quality/value guidelines here.

If you have any questions about specifications or certain products you discover, feel free to post back on the forum and I’ll do my best to be assistive.

In Anchorage, I did a quick search and Mattress Emporium seems to carry Pure Talalay Bliss. Mattress Ranch still lists their Silver and Gold series, which might be options, but you’d need to find out foam densities. Another option is that I see there is a WalMart in your area, and Brooklyn Bedding offers their Best Mattress Ever with the previous latex design on their web site, and while shipping was about $200, it would be more affordable than an all-latex mattress.

Online shopping could be an option for you, but you’d want to check on shipping to your area, availability for returns, etc. You could look online and use the experience and expertise of the members listed in post #21 here who are all very experienced and knowledgeable and specialize in providing the type of help and guidance on the phone that can help you make good choices. There are a wide range of latex and memory foam and other options included in the choices there and I believe that all of them compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, and transparency, but I’m not sure if you’re interested in that route.

You’ll certainly have quite a few better options in the Seattle area, but you’d have to check into the ability to either transport or ship to Anchorage if you found something you liked.

Off the top of my head, those are some of the ideas I have. If you have more specific questions, I’ll do my best to answer them. Maybe there are site members in the Anchorage area who are more informed and can provide their input.

Phoenix

3

Phoenix

Much thanks for you response and what seems to be your endless amount of knowledge and information concerning mattresses! Thank you for the additional local suggestions that I failed to research, I’ll definitely check into them.

After reviewing my original post I do owe a bit of an apology b/c it unintentionally turned into more of my story of frustration and still being a bit overwhelmed with the process rather than clearly stating specific questions.

I’ll be checking into the other local options you mentioned and am planning on spending some time looking in Seattle. After which, if I still have questions, I’ll try to be much more succinct and clear with my questions. :slight_smile: Thanks again.

Cory

4

Hi Pura Vida,

I understand your frustration. I’m looking forward to learning about what you find or decide to do.

Phoenix

5

Ok, so I think I’m making some small progress thanks to Phoenix’s recommendation of an additional local store, Mattress Emporium.

They had all of the Pure Talalay Bliss line and I liked the 10" Nature and 12" Beautiful, with the exception of the price tag of course. I understand comparisons across brands without actually testing them individually can be difficult, if not impossible but since my options are more limited in the Alaska/Anchorage area this is what I find myself doing. Using the Nature as a baseline with the thicknesses and ILDs of;

10" Natural Talalay
2" ActiveFusion Fast Natural Talalay 21 ILD
2" Natural Talalay Pressure Relief 28 ILD
6" Natural Talalay Latex Support Core 36 ILD

Could I make an “educated” guess that the Brooklyn Bedding BME Soft with 2"-19 Tal, 2"-30 Dunlop, and 6"-32 Poly foam be the closed feel to the PTB Nature? Or are the materials just too different with the BB using Dunlop and Poly foam to be able to make an educated guess with any level of confidence?

Second, looking at a DYI site (I used mattresses.net since I saw in another thread it was a trusted member) I built a very similar mattress to the Nature with all Talalay laytex for $1262 (before shipping considerations) with;

2"-22 ild topper
2"-28 ild topper
6"-36 ild Core
w/bamboo-wool zippered cover

Is it safe to assume this would have a very similar feel to the Nature? How much of a difference in feel would the difference in cover types make? What other factors am I missing?

I hate using a local store’s time and energy just for testing purposes and buy from online but significant cost differencse have to be considered. I am headed to Seattle next week and plan on doing some more testing of a broader range of product while I am there before making any decision. The other major consideration I will have to dig into is shipping from an online retailer has the potential to push the cost up to a range that makes the local shops more competitive. I’ll have to check into this in detail if I get more serious about the online options. Thanks as always.

Cory

6

Hi Pura Vida,

The configuration you’re considering from Mattresses.net would be closer in approximation than the Brooklyn Bedding option you mentioned. Besides the Brooklyn Bedding using different types and ILDs of latex to the Nature, it uses a polyfoam support core instead of latex. A latex support core is more durable, more resilient, more elastic, more adaptable to different weights and shapes and sleeping positions, more supportive (it has a higher compression modulus so it gets firmer faster with compression), more “natural”, and has a different more “springy” and responsive feel than polyfoam. It is a higher performance material.

The Mattresses.net configuration would be quite similar to the Nature, but the covering would be different which would impact the overall feel a bit and be slightly “firmer” feeling than the cover used by PTB. If you are considering using Mattresses.net, I would phone them directly, as they are familiar with the Nature and attempting to approximate that product.

(And just for clarity for others reading through this thread, I don’t make recommendations for stores unless they are a vetted member here of the site, and Mattress Emporium is not a site member here. While it may seem like a small difference, a suggestion of where someone might find a certain type of product differs from the site members here who have earned a TMU endorsement/recommendation.)

I’ll be interested in learning what you eventually decide to do.

Phoenix

7

Thank Phoenix. Great info as always and what you laid out was along the lines of my guess as to the similarities between the specific examples I gave. At least I’m thinking along generally correct lines… Although the extra advantages of Latex you described was a great reminder and helps quit bit as well. I’d definitely prefer to go all Latex, and if I can find reasonable shipping to AK that will be the route I go. Next steps will be to get my wife into the Emporium to see what her/our baseline preferences are and verify proper alignment. Hopefully after my Seattle trip I’ll be much closer to making a decision. Thanks again.

Oh, and yes, I did overstate when I said recommended, apologies to all of the trusted members. It was a statement of where I could find the PTB mattress in Anchorage rather than a specific recommendation. Enjoy!

Cory

8

Hi Pura Vida,

No worries! I look forward to learning about your progress.

Phoenix

9

Quick update and possibly a slightly dumb question…

Got my wife in the local store with the full Pure Talalay Bliss offerings where she tired all of them and focused on the 10" Nature and 12" Beautiful. She ended up preferring the nature due to a concern of the beautiful not having enough support. Her back (both of our actually) are slightly tweaked at the moment and she thought she could feel it more on the beautiful.

So now for the dumb question, lets call it a clarification… Even when considering a high end mattress company like PTB it is still crucial to verify proper alignment across the different models, correct? Unfortunately we forgot to bring a straight edge in order to check spinal alignment. I was trying to visually check her alignment by eye but can’t really say I saw much of a difference between the nature and beautiful. Am I correct to think the additional thickness of the comfort layers of the beautiful could cause alignment issues for a lighter person (my wife) compared to myself with 70 or 80 more LBS? Thanks.

10

Hi Pura Vida,

That’s not a dumb question at all.

There is more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support/alignment” and “pressure relief” and “feel” that may be useful as well.

Generally, a heavier person will tend to sink down more “through” softer comfort layers (such as in the Beautiful), and there can be a greater potential for poor alignment in such a situation. Of course, every person is different in their levels of flexibility, strength and sensitivity. While having some sort of a straightedge can be assistive in looking at someone’s alignment, a rough eyeballing, combined with a person’s own personal impressions, are usually quite satisfactory. It’s rare that someone would have a “perfect” alignment, as we commonly think of like when we look at a skeleton. There’s always some sort of individual variation. The key would be looking for something that appears “unusual” or excessive in lateral curvature (when on the side).

Between those two models, the Beautiful certainly uses much softer material (15 ILD) in the uppermost comfort layer than the Nature (21 ILD) and the uppermost layer is thicker (3" vs. 2").

Phoenix

11

As always, much thanks Phoenix!

12

Hi Pura Vida,

As always, you’re welcome!

Phoenix

13

Quick update in my search, I think my Seattle trip was successful. I visited Bedrooms and More and Soaring Hearts. Christopher was a huge help and very knowledgeable at Bedrooms and More. She spent two hours with me going over all of their options focusing on comfort and alignment. The woman from Soaring Hearts was very nice and showed me everything they offered. However they seem to focus most on the “natural” and “organic” aspect and only offer options with a Latex base with wool toppers for comfort layers. I discounted this fairly quickly b/c of concerns with long term durability of the wool topper. I seems to be focusing on a latex only bed b/c of durability, longevity, quality, and support.

Bedrooms and More really stressed the importance of double sided mattress due to the ability to flip rather than just rotate. I was under the impression flipping a good quality latex mattress was not a big concern and didn’t have a significant effect on durability. Is this a correct assumption?

When I started this process my main focus was on proper alignment but it seems with the better mattress companies like Pure Talalay Bliss this is less of a concern b/c of the quality and they way they are built. From what I can tell/feel regardless of the mattresses (high quality ones anyway) I’ve tried my alignment seems to be good and comfort has become the focus. Is this correct?

Originally I had no intention or even considered a DYI mattress due to my lack of knowledge and difficulty but with the knowledge and information I’ve gained from this site a DYI is starting to become my preferred option b/c of the limited options in AK and cost. I just need to find a company that is willing to ship to Alaska for a “reasonable” cost. I’m definitely contacting mattresses.net but need to do some more research on some of the other options recommended from this site. Much thanks as always.

14

Hi Pura Vida,

I’m glad you had a successful shopping trip in Seattle. :slight_smile:

While latex is a good quality and durable material, so is wool. It is one of the most durable natural fibers. While wool will naturally compact a bit over time (up to 30%), it will still remain a durable comfort layer.

All foams soften a bit with use over time, even latex, and the ability to flip a mattress and distribute the load differently is attractive to some people. Latex in a one-sided configuration can last quite a long time, and in a flippable mattress it can last even longer. The tradeoff for a two sided mattress is that there is less “room” to design a mattress that has progressive firmness because if you have more than about 3" or so of soft materials on the bottom of the mattress then it can be risky for support/alignment. The middle layer in a two sided mattress needs to be firm enough to be a suitable support layer and to some degree compensate for the softer layer underneath it but with a support layer on the bottom you have more flexibility to fine tune the top and middle layers to your liking without compromising support. Depending upon your comfort preference, this may or may not be problematic.

No, I’d be cautious with that assumption. This is certainly a concern with any mattress combination you choose. The ideal would be to have both suitable support/alignment and comfort/pressure relief in a mattress, but if you have to choose one over the other then I would choose support/alignment. There is some great information in this PHD thesis by Vincent+Verhaer (who is one of a group of researchers that I greatly respect) about the importance of good spinal alignment that clearly indicates that for healthy individuals it has the single biggest effect on the depth and quality of sleep and recovery for healthy individuals. Having proper alignment doesn’t necessarily mean that a mattress needs to feel hard like a board.

I’m glad you’re learning a lot! If you do decide to go the DIY route, then the first place I would start is by reading option 3 in post #15 here and the posts it links to (and option #1 and #2 as well) so that you have more realistic expectations and that you are comfortable with the learning curve, uncertainty, trial and error, or in some cases the higher costs that may be involved in the DIY process. While it can certainly be a rewarding project … the best approach to a DIY mattress is a “spirit of adventure” where what you learn and the satisfaction that comes from the process itself is more important than any cost savings you may realize (which may or may not happen).

Phoenix

15

As always your knowledge and the time you spend on each post is humbling. Thank you.

I didn’t mean to say I wasn’t concerned with alignment any longer, more that with the higher end mattresses I’ve spent time on my alignment seems to be pretty good, at least from what I can tell. Of course I think I’m aware of only gross mis-alignments with some of the lower end “box store” mattresses I’ve tested. When I’ve tried to compare higher quality mattresses, alignment issues or even differences, have not been as obvious. This is a bit of a frustration still due to my limited knowledge and experience at this point b/c proper alignment is still my number one priority in order to hopefully wake up each morning, for many, many mornings feeling great without any back pain or discomfort.

I overstated when I said I was leaning towards a DIY mattress. I’m more leaning towards a DIY source who I have confidence can essentially mimic either the PTB nature or beautiful. These are the two that I keep coming back to. The main intention with this idea is to keep the cost down, but as you have said/indicated many times there is significant value in purchasing exactly what you can physically test. My efforts continue…

16

Hi Pura Visa,

Thanks for the clarifications, and no worries! :wink:

The innerspring units and latex support cores within a mattress are rarely the “weak link”, and if a stronger spring unit or a higher ILD latex core is used, and as long as the mattress isn’t overly padded with comfort materials, you’ll probably be “in the range” for a decent alignment, especially with the types of products you’ve been testing.

Doing a “DIY” mattress with the guidance/support of a knowledgeable manufacturer who has experience using the same or similar materials to or replicating specific mattress can be a better option in a circumstance such as yours.

Phoenix