Given that clarification, would you still be concerned at all about having only a 1.5" latex comfort layer over the coil unit, particularly with regards to durability?
Whereas Maddog purchased the whole slumber system, I am looking at purchasing just the basic mattress.
Oh and thanks for the welcome. Good to know about warrantiesâI havenât seen a half inch anywhere! The most common Iâve seen is 1.5", Iâve seen a few 2", and maybe one or two 1".
Hi clav,
No, I would have no concern. Just realize (as youâre already aware) there will less for a comfort layer on the product.
Phoenix
Hi chav,
Sorry, I missed your question!:S
No, I would not be concerned, as youâre still using good quality componentry in the mattress. Youâre simply choosing a product with fewer âcomfort layersâ which will of course change the feel. The pocketed coil spring unit will in effect adopt the role of what I commonly call the âtransition layerâ as well as the deeper support unit, which this is able to do in a gently progressive manner because of the unique progressive resistance properties of pocketed spring units.
Sorry again for the tardy reply to your question.
Phoenix
Update: I have been sleeping on the Luma Mattress (without the extra 3inch comfort layer) for over a week and itâs actually quite comfortable. It took a few nights to adjust but the last 3 nights I have slept better than I have in months. I was told that the slumber systems all come with the 28 ild 1.5" layer of latex and are customized based on the additional comfort layer. So without the comfort layer, right now I am sleeping on the pocket coils + 1.5" of 28 ild latex. This provides good alignment and oddly enough, my shoulders donât hurt either (even though this is likely the firmest setup I have slept on yet). It is very springy feeling so be ready for that but you donât actually feel the coils⌠just a lot of bounce (at least I donât feel them at 180 pounds).
I could potentially be content just making the basic mattress my long term solution but do want to try the 28 ild comfort layer still.
They are shipping me the medium/firm (28 ild) comfort layer which should be here in about a week so I will also give that a fair chance and provide another update later.
Some other comments about Luma:
Hi maddog29,
Thanks for the update. It seems as if you are moving in the appropriate direction and your thoughts of too much plushness were correct.
[quote]Some other comments about Luma:
Did you change your pillow when you went to the base mattress, and if so do you think that impacted your shoulder comfort?
Phoenix
good question on the pillow. I have been using the same pillow from the start (the Nest Easy Breather pillow). I just tried the latex pillow one night early on and it wasnât for me⌠but to be fair, one night probably wasnât giving it a enough time:)
Hi Maddog29,
Thanks for the follow up. I was just curious, as pillows can have more of an impact than most people realize on the cervical/thoracic and shoulder area.
Phoenix
In reading some other threads, it appears that a number of men have problems with thicker, softer layering. Side sleepers, in the 180-200 lb. range, seem to be happy with a 2 inch soft layer rather than 3 inch layers. Just something I have noted in my readings here.
What further interests me about this thread is the pocketed coil system. Iâm beginning to think that latex over PCS is a good solution for side sleeping men. Any info about the coils specs in Maddogâs Lumina? For example: make, model, gauge.
Hi barneycalhoun,
Even with the number of threads you may have read through, Iâd caution against using the experience of others, on this site or elsewhere, as a reliable indicator of what might be applicable for you or others, as nothing can replace oneâs own careful personal testing of a product. Even two individuals with the exact same dimensions and mass can have dramatically different needs to achieve personalized comfort. Additionally, the top 2" or 3" layer of a mattress is just part of a total sleep system that works in unison with all of the other layers (although changes in the upper layers are the most noticeable in any component mattress system).
I would be remiss if I didnât comment that overall, plushness is overprescribed in the mattress industry, and alignment issues can arise not only from poor support systems, but also from too thick or too soft comfort layers (as you alluded). The ideal is to have both suitable support/alignment and comfort/pressure relief in a mattress. But if you have to choose one over the other then I would choose support/alignment. There is some great information in this PHD thesis by Vincent+Verhaer (who is one of a group of researchers that I greatly respect) about the importance of good spinal alignment that clearly indicates that for healthy individuals it has the single biggest effect on the depth and quality of sleep and recovery for healthy individuals. Having proper alignment doesnât necessarily mean that a mattress needs to feel hard like a board, and in any situation you certainly would want some surface comfort along with this deep support.
You are correct that latex over a Marshall/pocketed coil system is a very popular combination, for all populations. I donât have the specifics of the pocketed spring unit in the Luma system you referenced, but by appearances I believe it to be one of the Quantum Edge units from Leggett and Platt. These are high-quality spring units and are rarely the weak link in a mattress. Many manufacturers choose to keep the information about their spring units (producers, gauge of steel, turns) proprietary, as unless you are extremely knowledgeable about innerspring and their designs (which would be very few individuals in the country) the information would only serve those who are attempting to copy their design. With that being said, Luma is very transparent about their materials and Iâm sure they would provide you with as much information as they were comfortable doing.
If youâre interested, there are many factors that determine how a particular innerspring will feel and perform inside a specific mattress design. There is more about the different types of innersprings in this article and in post #10 here but I would pay much more attention to your own careful and objective testing which will tell you how the innerspring performs in combination with the other layers and materials in a mattress and to the quality of the materials above the innerspring which is normally the weakest link in a mattress. Post #16 also talks about different innerspring designs and how they work.
Phoenix
Interested in this. Torn between the Ultimate Hybrid from Arizona Mattress and the Luma.
Hi davo32683,
The Arizona Premium Ultimate Hybrid uses a Leggett and Platt Quantum pocketed coil innerspring unit, above which is 3" of latex. You can choose between firm, medium and plush, and either natural Dunlop or natural Talalay. The covering is a zippered bamboo/wool stretch knit. There is a 60 day trial period.
The closest Luma mattress to the Ultimate hybrid would be their Latex Hybrid Slumber System. This uses a pocketed spring unit with a 1" base of polyfoam (1.8 Lb High Density). On top of this spring unit is 1.5" of blended Talalay latex. The cover is a tencel stretch knit. On top of this is a separate topper called their Talalay Latex Comfort layer that is 3" of blended Talalay. Mattress comfort choices can be made in plush, medium firm, or firm. There is a one year comfort/return period.
Both of these mattresses use good quality materials and there would be no âweak linksâ in their construction. I think highly of both of these companies, and Arizona Premium is a member here of the site.
Every mattress purchase though includes more than just the âmaterial valueâ of the mattress and all the many tradeoffs involved in the mattress itself as well as all the other options and services that are part of every mattress purchase are all part of what I call your âpersonal value equationâ . There is also more about the most important parts of the âvalueâ of a mattress purchase in post #13 here but in the end everyone will need to decide what is most important to them and attach a âvalueâ to all the objective, subjective, and intangible factors that are part of any final decision. There is no âbest and worstâ any longer at this point ⌠only best for YOU. In terms of quality and value there are really no âbad choicesâ or âmistakesâ here and there are no clear winners between your finalists, so the odds are higher that any one of them would be a good choice that you would be happy with.
Phoenix
Iâve been sleeping with the extra the 3" 28 ild comfort layer for over a week now and wanted to provide an update. Alignment is good and no low back pain! Shoulders are a bit sore but less sore that with the 19 ild. I wonder if too soft of a comfort layer was bending my arm in a funny way and creating pain. What is surprising to me is that I canât find much evidence on various latex mattress seller websites saying that a 28 ild latex would be appropriate for a side sleeper. Even on this site I canât find people that land on an ild this firm for side sleeping. what is more difficult is that I probably wouldnât have landed on this ild with more local testing either (since the softer ild always felt better to me until I spend a full night on it). Very appreciative for return and exchange policies! I wonât know for a few weeks yet but hopefully I finally found the right fit after over 4 months of trial and error.
Hi Maddog29,
Thanks for the update! Iâm happy that things are moving in a better direction for you and going to a slightly firmer upper layer (28 vs. 19 ILD) seems to be working out.
There could be multiple reasons for the slightly firmer layer working better. If the 19 ILD could have allowed you to âsink inâ a bit too much and it could not have supported your torso enough and this could have placed most stress upon your shoulders. It also could have caused the issue that you stated of allowing your shoulder to rest in an awkward position. It also could not have provided enough surface support for you.
There really is no one best ILD or combination of materials that are best for side sleepers, so at least on this site itâs more of an explanation of averages, but then reliance upon your own careful personal testing. There isnât a formula that can predict with any certainty what type of layering you may do best with that can possibly be more accurate than your own personal experience and without this the next best way to decide on the design of a mattress is to use the âaveragesâ of a manufacturer for people of your weight range, body type, sleeping style, and personal preferences. These âaveragesâ may vary from manufacturer to manufacturer depending on the specific designs and options that they have available (including all the components such as the cover or quilting layers which can also have a significant effect on how the mattress feels and performs not just the latex or foam layers).
Using a little bit of a firmer layer on top is something that I discuss frequently on the site â what I call dominant layering. But again this would be only as general guidance and not an absolute as to what would be best for every individual.
Iâm looking forward to your future updates, and I hope theyâre positive!
Phoenix
I noticed, in the composite photo of Maddogâs back, that his back muscles seemed to contracted in the misaligned picture. His muscles seemed more relaxed (in the more aligned picture) without the softer 3 inch topper.
AnywayâŚ
Maddog says heâs happy (alignment wise) with the 28 topper, but still experiences some pressure discomfort.
The question I have is, what if he added a thin soft topper? He currently has 4.5 inches medium over PCS. Could another inch or two of soft latex relieve the pressure? OTH, would 6 inches of latex negatively effect the PCS performance?
Hi barneycalhoun,
Unless you were measuring the activity in the area via electromyography (EMG), thereâd be no way to determine the difference in muscle tone between two photos. Slight differences in posture and lighting can contribute to these differences in appearance as well. It is true that there would be a small difference in muscle micro-contractions to help maintain a more neutral alignment in different mattress configurations.
Itâs entirely possible that someone could have a bit more benefit from adding a small amount of softer foam on top of such a configuration, but nothing can replace oneâs own personal testing, and from afar Iâd personally avoid too much âtheory at a distanceâ, and instead trust oneâs own personal experiences and results.
Phoenix
NOOO! I just wrote a long post and it disappeared, donât you hate it when that happens?
Sigh, I guess long story short, I went ahead and purchased a medium-firm Luma Sleep mattress and am overall satisfied with the results, so thank you for the assistance!
Pros: high quality materials, does not sleep hot. Cons: thought it would have more edge support (although I donât roll off or anything like that), and has more âgiveâ than I would like.
Hi chav,
Congratulations on your new Luma Sleep mattress! :cheer: Which model did you end up selecting? Whether the hybrid or all latex, you certainly chose something using good quality and durable materials.
Both the all latex and the hybrid will have âsofterâ edge reinforcement systems than âtypicalâ innerspring foam encasement units when seated, but as you mentioned, sleeping close to the edge itâs still supportive and product roll-off is minimal. Part of that is the point elasticity of the latex itself.
I hope youâll be able to report back once youâve had a chance to sleep upon the mattress for a while longer.
And sorry about your post disappearing. :S Sometimes the site signs me out as well and the post I was working on disappears and I have to sign back in, but itâs usually there again after I sign back in. But as I learned a long time ago, I always copy what I was working on before submitting itâŚjust in case!
Phoenix
I purchased the hybrid. That was partly why I was a little disappointed with the edge support, because the point of going hybrid was because I like the rigidity of innerspring. But like I said earlier, it wasnât so bad that it was a dealbreaker. I frequently sleep on the floor and have little trouble adjusting to Japanese mattresses, so my standards for âfirmâ I think is much higher than the average American. 
Iâve had it since Jan/Feb this year and am still pretty happy.
Hi chav,
Thanks for that update. Yes, many people comment that the edge on perimeter spring edge reinforcement systems, such as the Quantum Edge, doesnât feel quite as hard as they assumed it might. These systems in general wonât feel as hard for a seating surface as a typical foam encased edge system, but they are quite good at allowing you to sleep up to the edge, and generally there is less of a differentiation in the transition from the sleeping surface to the edge.
Iâm glad that youâre still happy with your new mattress!
Phoenix