Hello, first of all - have been using your site as a reference guide for the past 6 months and it has been extremely helpful. Thanks!
This is my first post as I am hoping for some guidance.
As a reference, I am a 6 ft, 180 pound side sleeper and my wife is 5’7 130 pound side and back sleeper. We last year felt it was time to retire our “American Signature Queen size coil on coil royal duet + latex”. I am not truly sure what the makeup of this bed was but we slept great on it for 10 years. The last year though we noticed the depressions more and more and thought it was time for new.
Back in October I purchased the nest bedding Alexander signature hybrid. After 60 days we decided this wasn’t the right mattress for us. Motion control was excellent but we just never got a good night sleep. no specific pain points or soreness after the 30 day adjustment period. Just lots of tossing and turning. I thought it was perhaps that we just missed the feel of latex.
Then we went to a more traditional innerspring with an offset coil and polyurethane plush model from a local manufacturer. They thought the issue was that I had bad allignment on the nest mattress and I seemed to line up well on this mattress after trying over a dozen options with them in the showroom.
After a few weeks of sleeping on this mattress we were not happy either. The motion transfer seemed aweful and even though my wife slept fine the motion of my tossing and turning drove her crazy. It also was just too firm for me. The pressure on my shoulders was too much even after trying to get used to it for a few weeks.
Now I am trying a Luma sleep Hybrid Latex Slumber Systemin plush. I chose this mattress because I wanted to go back to latex, with a pocket coil for less motion transfer and a more plush mattress for pressure relief on my shoulders. After a week my low back seems to be sore every morning (no low back pain from mattresses up until this luma). I can give it more time but question the alignment this mattress is giving. Here is a link to a picture of my spinal alignment in this bed.
Does this seem okay? I see pictures of ideal spinal alignment online but don’t know if that’s really what people have in the real world…
If this doesn’t seem like awful alignment perhaps I just need to give it the normal recommended 30-60 days to get used to the new mattress. Otherwise, perhaps I went too plush? Or maybe I need more hip support with a zoned pocket coil?
Unfortunately, it’s not possible for me to diagnose back pain causes online, as this can be very complex and there are too many unknowns and individual variable involved. However, there is more about the most common symptoms that people may experience when they sleep on a mattress and the most likely (although not the only) reasons for them in post #2 here . Usually, back pain throughout the day is associated with a product that provides inadequate support, or isn’t a match for you in particular, but it can also be caused by a mattress that it too firm.
Regarding you photo, without actual landmarks being labelled (like in biomechanical analysis) and seeing in 3-D everything that is going on in your layers, it would also again be difficult for me to tell about your alignment. If is use your erector spinae as a guide, there certainly seems to be a lateral pelvic tilt and you can see where the lower thoracic “bends” into the upper lumbar region. It certainly would be plausible that this is the genesis of your low back pain issues.
There could be many reasons for this alignment. For the pelvic tilt, your legs may not be sinking in enough, causing a tilt. Or, your hips could not be sinking in enough, causing your waist are to drop and be unsupported. Alternately, you may be “sinking in” too much overall in this area and need a bit more surface support under your waist area. I’ve attached a photo here showing how both a too firm and a too plush mattress can cause these issues.
I’d be interested to see how you would respond with the “medium” version of this mattress and see if the slightly firmer latex on top made a difference. If that made an improvement, you would know that your surface comfort was too plush. I’d also be curious if you’d respond better to a more substantial (thicker) surface comfort layering, perhaps something along the line of plush over medium over the spring unit. I know this is not a combination offered by Luna – just me being curious, as a possibility is that your hips are sinking through the plush foam and then hitting the support of the spring unit and “stopping” at that area, where your lighter waist area is sinking into the plush surface comfort layer but your hips and shoulders aren’t sinking in enough to allow the comfort/spring to come up and “meet” your waist and support it properly.
You certainly could keep trying out the mattress and see if you adjust to it or if your back feels better, but at least you have some time to get used to it and you do have exchange/return options.
I’ll be interested to learn how things progress over time.
Thanks for the quick response! I pulled off the comfort layer and tried laying right on the luma support layer. I seem to line up much better as you can see here. Does this look acceptable or do my shoulders look too high still?
Not sure if this would be a good permanent solution… this mattress is the pocket coils + what appears to be just 1 inch of foam. Any thoughts on how that would hold up over time?
As I mentioned previously, I really can’t make a diagnosis with photos online. Even comparing these two is difficult, because unless the camera is in the exact same position and the subject (you) is in the exact same position and there are reference points to line up, it’s really quite a bit of guesswork, where my suggestions can do as much harm as good…
To me it seems that the heavier parts of your body (hips/waist) are allowed to sink in a bit more with the soft latex on top, causing a bit more of an angle at the thoracic/lumbar junction. But this is very imprecise and a guess.
My best suggestion would be how you felt without the padding. Your own careful testing will be incredibly more accurate than any “theory at a distance” that I can offer. I would still be curious as to your comfort with more substantial comfort layers in both amount and higher ILD. You may wish to take a nap on the product without the comfort layer and see how your back feels.
I’m also seriously considering buying the Luma basic mattress, and also have the same concern about how long such a thin foam layer over coils, even a high quality latex one, would last. Any thoughts?
They sent me a copy of their warranty. Am I reading this right, their indentation threshold for triggering a claim is only one half inch??? Is that what they sent you too?
Thanks for mentioning the warranty. If I received a detailed copy I lost it so just emailed Luma support requesting one. Curious on Phoenix’s thoughts on the longetivity of 1.5 inches of latex over coils. Also, do you know the ILD of the 1.5"? I can’t seem to find it.
Planning on sleeping on just the base mattress tonight to see how it goes. Figuring in the 2-4 week adjustment period I may not know if this is good for me for a while. I am guessing my shoulders will hurt a lot throughout the night without the comfort layer but perhaps I can get used to it after a couple of weeks.
No, I didn’t ask about the latex foam layer ILD, but that “Stefano” guy in their website’s chat window responds really quickly if you want to pose your question there. He did mention that the 1" polyfoam layer at the bottom is 1.8# HR foam.
Let me know if the warranty they send you also says one one-half inch to trigger a claim. That’s insane. Since you’re still assessing the mattress itself, what about the rest of your shopping experience? Customer service, pillows & other accessories, etc.?
Latex is the most durable of the major types of foams, and while the uppermost comfort layers of a mattress receive the most mechanical stress, and softer latex will generally be less durable than firmer latex (assuming the same type/blend), I wouldn’t have a concern with a plush top piece of latex. There have been plush latex toppers used for decades that still perform well.
I’m not in possession of their warranty booklet, but common depths that initiate warranty claims on mattresses using latex are .5"-1.0". So .5" isn’t outside of the norm for an item like this for what they would consider the start of a discussion of a potential warranty claim about their product.
You can read my reply above to chav. I would have no concerns.
The ILD isn’t of particular importance and not an indicator of quality, so many manufacturers won’t offer that information on their site and consider it proprietary.
As for ILD, all the information you really need to know about a mattress is in this article. While the specs that affect the quality and durability of the layers and components are important to know, when you are able to test a mattress personally then knowing “comfort specs” such as ILD/IFD isn’t really necessary or even important because with careful testing your body will tell you much more about whether any specific combination of layers or components or any specific mattress is a good “match” for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) than knowing the ILD/IFD of the individual layers regardless of what the actual numbers may be. It can end up adding to the confusion for many consumers (I’m not saying this is the case for you of course, but just for others who might read through this thread) as opposed to making things easier. With your current product you know that you are using the “plush configuration”, so knowing if the “Medium” used a 24 ILD or a 28 ILD, for example, wouldn’t provide much meaningful information. The most important piece of knowledge would be that the “Medium” layer was “firmer” than what you were replacing.
While this certainly can be a useful experiment for you, I don’t know that sleeping directly upon the innerspring unit would be the most comfortable or recommended long-term configuration to settle upon, but there are people who sleep just fine on matts made of small tree branches, so I don’t want to discard anything. But as I mentioned above I think you’d be best off trying an exchange for a firmer upper layer, and if you’re not considering doing this then it’s entirely possible this mattress is not a product that is appropriate for your needs. But time will tell!
To clarify, I won’t be sleeping directly on the innerpsring… the base unit is the same as the luma mattress without the slumber system so it is the coils + 1.5" of latex glued to the coils. Awesome info so far. Thanks again!
Thank you for that clarification! I thought that you were going down to bare springs in your quest. When you mentioned you “pulled off the comfort layer” in an earlier post I was assuming (incorrectly!) that you were removing all comfort layers on the product! Sometimes I read into things just a bit too much…:S
Yes, now your photos make much more sense to me and I would definitely be in agreement with you that what you have in the comfort layer separate topper is too plush, and the “Medium Firm” option would certainly be something worthwhile for you to consider.
Thank you again for taking the time to clarify this for me and for realizing that I was making an incorrect assumption.
Given that clarification, would you still be concerned at all about having only a 1.5" latex comfort layer over the coil unit, particularly with regards to durability?
Whereas Maddog purchased the whole slumber system, I am looking at purchasing just the basic mattress.
Oh and thanks for the welcome. Good to know about warranties–I haven’t seen a half inch anywhere! The most common I’ve seen is 1.5", I’ve seen a few 2", and maybe one or two 1".
No, I would not be concerned, as you’re still using good quality componentry in the mattress. You’re simply choosing a product with fewer “comfort layers” which will of course change the feel. The pocketed coil spring unit will in effect adopt the role of what I commonly call the “transition layer” as well as the deeper support unit, which this is able to do in a gently progressive manner because of the unique progressive resistance properties of pocketed spring units.
Update: I have been sleeping on the Luma Mattress (without the extra 3inch comfort layer) for over a week and it’s actually quite comfortable. It took a few nights to adjust but the last 3 nights I have slept better than I have in months. I was told that the slumber systems all come with the 28 ild 1.5" layer of latex and are customized based on the additional comfort layer. So without the comfort layer, right now I am sleeping on the pocket coils + 1.5" of 28 ild latex. This provides good alignment and oddly enough, my shoulders don’t hurt either (even though this is likely the firmest setup I have slept on yet). It is very springy feeling so be ready for that but you don’t actually feel the coils… just a lot of bounce (at least I don’t feel them at 180 pounds).
I could potentially be content just making the basic mattress my long term solution but do want to try the 28 ild comfort layer still.
They are shipping me the medium/firm (28 ild) comfort layer which should be here in about a week so I will also give that a fair chance and provide another update later.
Some other comments about Luma:
customer service has been excellent! They are very responsive and willing to work with you from what I can tell so far.
The pillows seem nice but I don’t prefer a latex pillow myself so can’t comment more on that.
Thanks for the update. It seems as if you are moving in the appropriate direction and your thoughts of too much plushness were correct.
[quote]Some other comments about Luma:
customer service has been excellent! They are very responsive and willing to work with you from what I can tell so far.[/quote]
I appreciate the feedback. It’s always nice to hear when companies are treating their customers well.
Did you change your pillow when you went to the base mattress, and if so do you think that impacted your shoulder comfort?
