My wife and I are needing a new mattress, as our pillow top innerspring that we purchased in 2007/2008 is worn out. After some research it seems that the best choice for a long lasting mattress is an all latex, plus these seem to offer the best chance to get the two important things (comfort & support). It also seems that there are several different online companies who sell these, but having no exposure to an all latex mattress, we are a little concerned whether we will like that choice or not. After seeing that a couple of friends have recently purchased new mattresses (innerspring) and have paid between $2500 & $3000, the cost of the latex options we are seeing online are within reason.
I’ve read your Mattress Shopping Tutorial and I also see where one of the online vendors that I’ve been bouncing questions off of (foamsweetfoam.com) is one which has earned the Mattress Underground’s approval.
I’m a big guy (5’11" 320lbs) and a side sleeper, while my wife is a back sleeper, so FoamSweetFoam.com suggested this was a fit for my wife and I (the layer “XFirm Dunlop / Firm Dunlop” is to custom fit our different sizes and back vs side sleeping):
13" Queen
Medium Talalay
XFirm Dunlop / Firm Dunlop
X Firm Dunlop
XX Firm Dunlop
They do have a thicker mattress (16"), which gets yet another layer, which affords more options when changing the different layers around in the stack to allow for what would seem to be more possibilities to get the proper fit for us. When I asked them if the thicker mattress wasn’t suggested only due to the higher costs, this is the response I received:
Our 4 layer is the most popular choice. You could go with the 5 layer bed but you don’t necessarily need to. Typically customers choose the 5 layer if they want a very plush bed, or if they want it to be very supportive. If you chose to go with 5 layers, I would recommend the following:
16" Queen
Medium Talalay
Firm Talalay
XFirm Dunlop / Firm Dunlop
X Firm Dunlop
XX Firm Dunlop
Our current mattress was originally approximately 16" to 18" thick, so I’m wondering if we should go with the thicker one. I’m looking to get some additional confidence before making this purchase, so I’m asking Mattress Underground these questions.
Is an all latex mattress what we should be researching, or should we go with an innerspring and a latex topper?
Is Foam Sweet Foam’s suggestions for the different layers a sound suggestion as far as you are concerned,?
Are there any brick and mortar stores in our surrounding area (Henderson, Texas) where we could try out an all latex mattress, or something that would be very similar to what is being suggested by Foam Sweet Foam?
We appreciate you compiling all of the information on the Mattress Underground site, and for helping to make this decision a little less overwhelming.
Latex is a component that is indeed very good at providing both comfort and support.
I believe you are referring to the members listed in post #21 here. They are all very experienced and knowledgeable and specialize in providing the type of help and guidance on the phone that can help you make good choices. There are a wide range of latex options included in the choices there and I believe that all of them compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, and transparency. While price is not necessarily an indicator of quality in the mattress industry, I think you’ll find when objectively comparing the materials contained within the mattresses offered by many of the members of this site to the materials contained within the mattresses bought by a few of your friends that the members here offer some outstanding values and the quality of componentry you’ll receive is much higher than the typical brands for a similar, or many times lower, price point.
Yes, Foam Sweet Foam is a member here, which means that I think highly of them.
When you can’t test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help “talk you through” the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and “feel” of the materials they are using and the options they have available that may be the best “match” for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs, options, and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else. Since you are a “big guy”, it is especially important that you have a configuration that will provide adequate support while still offering you enough comfort when you sleep upon your side, and the people at Foam Sweet Foam would be best able to offer advice as to what they think would work best for you with what they offer.
A high BMI does present special challenges and generally requires firmer materials (in the support layers especially). This could be firmer latex or innersprings (the type of support component would be a personal preference and in the right design either could be suitable) or even a zoned construction. The same overall guidelines apply with higher weights though that PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) along with using high quality durable materials that will maintain their feel and performance for longer periods of time (like the latex you are considering) are the way to make the best choices. Heavier people in general will need firmer and thicker comfort layers and firmer support layers than those who are lighter and because no materials will last as long with much higher weights the quality and durability of the materials and components is even more important than normal. I wouldn’t “rule out” any types of mattress and base your choices on your own personal testing. Post #3 here has more information and suggestions about heavier weights that is worth reading.
The 16" sample they mentioned would just allow a bit more “bending in” of the upper medium Talalay layer through the additional firm Talalay layer beneath it, which you might notice a bit more when sleeping on your side, but as they stated it wouldn’t necessarily be something that you’d need and I certainly would place trust in their recommendations whether you decide to go with a 13" or 16" mattress.
The thickness of a mattress is just a side effect of the design and by itself isn’t particularly meaningful because whether a thicker or thinner mattress would be better or worse for any particular person will depend on the specifics of the materials (type, firmness, etc.) and on all the other layers within the mattress. Thickness is only one of many specs that are used to make different mattresses that perform and feel differently and that makes a mattress suitable for one person and not another. There is more about the effect of thickness in post #14 here. Regardless of how thick or thin a mattress may be … the most important part of the “value” of a mattress is how suitable it is “as a whole” for your particular body type, sleeping positions, and preferences in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) regardless of how thick it may be. There is certainly no reason that at your weight you would “need” more thickness than either of the mattresses you are considering but you may still “prefer” a mattress that is thicker or thinner depending on the design.
I would definitely have a detailed conversation with Foam Sweet Foam before making a final purchase decision.
While I can certainly help with “how” to choose … It’s not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress or combinations of materials or components because the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, or PPP or how a mattress will “feel” to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).
As you can read from my comments above, I certainly would trust the guidance offered by a reliable manufacturer or retailer. Their detailed knowledge of their mattresses and how they fit with different body types and sleeping positions along with your feedback from local testing, a customer base of many people that they can use as reference points, and any exchange, return, or any options they have available to customize a mattress after a purchase can help lower the risk of an online purchase. These online retailers or manufacturers can also be a good “value reference” for local purchases to make sure that if you are paying a “premium” for a local purchase (in exchange for the kind of “in person” guidance, service, and value that comes with dealing with a local retailer that can help you make more “accurate” choices that you have tested in person) is not too high. And the good thing is that Foam Sweet Foam has a 60 day comfort exchange program and a 120 night trial period, in the unfortunate case that your purchase turns out not as well as you had hoped.
Subject to first confirming that any retailer or manufacturer on the list that you wish to visit is completely transparent (see this article ) and to making sure that any mattress you are considering meets the quality/value guidelines here … the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in and around Henderson, Texas would be the Shreveport, LA list here. Unfortunately, I didn’t find anything of quality in Henderson. I did find a few more stores in Tyler but nothing that carries latex products. Your closest best bet would be the Dallas/Ft Worth list in post #4 here , but I know that is a bit of a drive for you.
I’m interested to learn what you’re able to find out and end up deciding.
Hi Phoenix - I appreciate your response, and the valuable information that you provided.
We were able to go to Shreveport, LA today and visited the Mattress Plus store there and had the opportunity to test what the person there advised were his “all latex” mattresses. The brand he showed us was the Pure Talalay Bliss, and the models were:
World’s Best Bed (13") :
4" Carbon Infused Comfort Layer
3" Pressure Relieving Layer
6" Talalay Support Core
We were told the Nutrition was the firmer of the two, but we weren’t able to tell a great deal of difference between the two, and both were very comfortable. Luckily we were the only customers in the store and the sales guy was the only one there as well and he received enough phone calls that we had plenty of time to lay on both mattresses to get a good feel for them. This brand carries a 15 year warranty (half what is provided by the FoamSweetFoam online manufacturer) and the sales person at Mattress Plus seemed to be leaning towards the warranty being contingent on using the foundation that they sold, or at least an acceptable foundation of the customer’s choosing which they had to approve of… The retail price at Mattress Plus was approximately $700 more than what we can get a customized version of the top of the line (16") mattress from the online vendor.
We’re going to go with the online choice due to their outstanding warranty and the option to trade out layers if we aren’t happy with the firmness.
Congratulations on your new mattress purchase! :cheer: You certainly did make a good quality/value choice, and I’ll be interested in learning how you like the product and if you end up making any adjustments after you’ve had it for a while.
The World’s Best Bed uses quite a bit more of ultra plush 15 ILD latex in the top 4" layer, versus the 3" of 28 ILD in the Nutrition, so I’m surprised you didn’t notice too much of a difference. But I think you made a better choice with your Foam Sweet Foam configuration for your BMI versus the other two Pure Talalay Bliss models you tested.
Can you speak to the difference between the Zenhaven and Foam Sweet Foam mattresses? Is the FSF mattress worth the increased cost even though the latex is Dunlop and not all Talalay? We are concerned in durability as one of us is over 300 lbs.
Thank you!
Saatva ZenHaven (from top, flippable)
1.5" 5-Zone Talalay (N2 – 20-25 ILD)
3" Talalay (N4 – 30-35 ILD)
3" Talalay (N3 – 25-30 ILD)
1.5" 5-Zone Talalay (N1 – 14-20 ILD)
The Talalay latex is 100% NR from Talalay Global.
This product is not customizable, but you may flip the product over the achieve a slightly different feel. They rate their “Gentle Firm” side as being 18% firmer than the “Luxury Plush” side.
There is a 1" wool layer on each side listed as organic and the cover uses organic cotton.
They offer a 75 day home trial, when the mattress can be returned, less the original delivery fee.
Sleep on Latex offers multiple configurations using either Dunlop, Talalay or a combination of both. Their Talalay is from Radium and their Dunlop is from Lien A. Both their Dunlop and Talalay are 100% NR. A listing of their densities and ILD can be found in a chart under Specifications of our Latex on this page. Their cover uses organic cotton and Joma wool. Their mattresses are component configurable systems.
They offer a 60 day comfort layer exchange program and a 120 night comfort trial return program, less return shipping fees. ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: foamsweetfoam.com/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=30
I think you may have some of your information mixed up a little, as when you choose the configuration of the Foam Sweet Foam mattress you can choose all Talalay, all Dunlop or a combination of both. I would phone them and use their advice regarding a mattress and configuration that they think would work best for you. Foam Sweet Foam is a member of this site which means that I think very highly of them and that I believe that they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency. They are extremely knowledgeable about latex and different configurations. ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: foamsweetfoam.com/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=30
All latex is a highly durable material, so the biggest concern I would have is making sure that whatever customizable system you chose from Foam Sweet Foam was more appropriate for someone with a higher BMI. The Zenhaven doesn’t have a configurable option, but you could flip it to the firmer side and see if it worked well enough for you.
There is more about the 3 most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on suitability, durability, and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for).
While price is certainly important of course, the “value” of a mattress purchase is what is most important and price is just one of many factors that can affect the “value” of a mattress purchase. There isn’t a “formula” that can be used to assess or “calculate” the value of a mattress because there are so many different variables and criteria involved that can affect the price of a mattress that can each be more or less important to some people and not to others who may have completely different criteria or definitions of “value”. The value of a mattress purchase is also relative to how a mattress compares to the other finalists you are considering or to other mattresses that are available to you in your area (or online if you are also considering online options). There are many reasons that a mattress that may be “good value” for one person or in one area of the country may not be good value for someone else that has very different needs and preferences or that lives in a different area.
The biggest difference between these two products is the ability to customize the Foam Sweet Foam, versus being locked into one configuration (with two different sides) in the Zenhaven. Otherwise, you’re dealing with good quality componentry in both.
