All Natural/Organic/Chemical Free Mattresses

[phoenix]

Hi HolisticallyYours,

Earlier in the day I was able to test out 20 (3") SBR over 28 (2") NR (was marked 28 but think it was N2) and found a configuration that would work. My one question is that the 20 was in Blended Talalay (T) and the 28 was in the Talalay Natural Rubber so it was actually N2. I was thinking of getting the T Natural Rubber for the top layer in the 20 (N1), and the 28 in the blended T with an appropriate core in Blended Talalay that we tested.

The N1 would be in the range of 14 - 19 ILD, the N2 would be in a range of 20 - 24, and the N3 would be in the range of 25 - 29. My guess is that the second layer may have been N3 which would be closest to the 28 they listed (although of course I can’t know that for sure).

If you were using NR … then 20 ILD would be in the N2 range of ILD’s.

Do you have an opinion on how different getting the top in the NR versus SBR will feel and switching the 2nd layer to Synthetic?

With single layers … for most people the natural variances in ILD ranges would probably have a bigger effect than the differences in the two materials which are quite similar. If the entire mattress was made of one or the other … then the differences between them (the NR is more elastic and has a higher sag factor meaning it would get firmer faster) would be more apparent. In general … the blended would be a little more pressure relieving and you would sink in a little more if the ILD’s were exactly the same (which isn’t likely).

Once the cover is put on the mattress we think the mattress will become firmer, which is a concern as the 20 ILD for us could be even softer to accomodate our shoulders.

A cover will normally add some firmness yes … especially before it has broken in. More elastic stretch knit covers will have less effect than woven covers and wool quilting will increase the effect.

We want to stay with 28 for the middle as a compromise between his weight 185 and mine 112. If we went down to 24ILD in the second layer not sure if would may a material difference and may not be enough support for our hips.

Bear in mind that a 28 ILD middle layer (or any specific ILD) may not be available from a manufacturer you are working with and/or may require a special order. Most manufactures have a set of standard ILD’s they use in their mattresses so the layering they suggest may require some degree of translation from what you have tested. I agree that 24 would also be a more “risky” choice in a middle layer in most cases. I would also keep in mind that at these levels of small differences where the normal ILD range of materials may be almost as much as the differences in layering that you are considering that your personal experience may be the only real way to know for sure how well they would work. ILD’s are not exact in Talalay or Dunlop even though the range of variance is smaller in Talalay.

I think there is an option to order the lowest ILD in Natural (N1) and test it out. Wondering if you think this would be worth it or are we close enough at this point to make a decision and the difference won’t be material flipping the Natural to the top? We did like the N2 feel on top although it was only 2".

Again … your own testing would be a much more accurate assessment than any theory at a distance. There is no formula that can predict the layering that would be best for you that is more accurate than your own testing. If you do know the specific layering you have tested … then this may also need to be “translated” into the layer thicknesses and ILD’s that are available from the manufacturer you are working with who may not have the same options available as you tested. More general or average ILD choices are usually successful for 90% or more of people but when you are “designing” down to this level of specificity … this is usually the realm of a custom manufacturer.

If you do go with an online order … then “averages” using the ILD and layering options they have available based on their height and weight and sleeping positions along with any additional experience from local testing would work well for the large majority of people but each manufacturer may suggest a different layering because of differences in the materials or components they use, differences between suppliers, or just different types of designs.

if we did go with the Natural Rubber on top, could we expect it to get softer over time (how much softer and how much time?) Would it ever get too soft?

Yes … all foams will get gradually softer over time. There is no way to accurately quantify “how much” because this will depend on many factors including the people using the mattress but it’s probably safe to say that NR Talalay … especially in lower ILD’s … will get softer faster than blended Talalay. You can see more about the differences in how each ages in post #2 here and post #2 here and more about all the many factors that are involved in the durability of a mattress in post #2 here.

How much is “too soft” depends on how all the layers interact together and on the tolerance that a particular person may have for foam softening within a specific mattress design. It is relative to the individual and what may have become “too soft” for one person may still be fine for another. There is just no way to provide meaningful or specific answers to these kinds of questions where the answer is relative to the person and the overall design of a particular mattress.

[quote]Which companies make a 100% Natural Rubber Latex Pillow? How would the label read? It is so hard to figure out which are the natural rubber. One label said 100% Latex but there are 2 types of Latex Natural Rubber NR and Synthetic Blend SBR.

So far I only see pilllows come in Soft Med Firm, any thoughts on the corresponding ILDS? Brands that poeple like?[/quote]

I don’t keep a list of specific pillows which use latex (it would be an overwhelming task) but like mattresses … the materials are more important than the brand which makes your choices much easier. Your most accurate source of information about the exact materials that are used in a pillow would be the merchant you are buying it from (assuming they are knowledgeable about their products). Labels often don’t provide the specific information about the exact material that is used. For example they may say 100% latex without specifying exactly what type of latex. A google search will bring up many sources for latex pillows and the pillow thread has some examples and links as well.

For example my Malouf zoned push hi loft pillow says 100% natural Talalay latex on the label. In this case it means that the latex is 100% NR but in other cases it could mean that it is 100% latex that is “natural” and in many cases natural is used to mean blended. Pure Latex Bliss for example calls their blended latex “natural” and their 100% NR latex “all natural”. A knowledgeable merchant is always the key to accurate information if there is any doubt.

It’s unlikely that you will find ILD ratings for pillows.

I would caution that you may be getting a bit overly focused on “comfort specs” and ILD’s which aren’t as specific as you would hope they may be and at the level of fine detail you are analyzing may not be as critical as you may believe. There are so many moving parts to mattress design and because ILD isn’t exact anyway … this can become overwhelmingly complex and frustrating and can lead to “paralysis by analysis”. Information about the type of material or the quality of material is important but to try to be your own mattress designer and “design” a mattress to this level of fine detail can be a difficult challenge without specific experience on all the layering combinations you are considering. It’s usually best to work within the limitations of the manufacturers or retailers you are working with which are usually more than enough to provide the vast majority of their customers with a mattress that suits all their needs and preferences.

Phoenix