Almost there, I think, need final help.

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

1st of all, thank you Phoenix for the awesome website, and all the information you provide. I’ve read over most of the important articles and I’ve learned more than I ever wanted to know about a mattress.

I am in Spokane, WA and thanks to the site I’ve visited the recommended factory direct type stores in my location. This includes furniture row (denver mattress), Twilight Mattrees and NW bedding. I am 6’3" 190lbs and I sleep with my girlfriend who is 5"2’(she supports any decision I make as she can sleep on anything). I currently sleep on an old junk spring mattress that is long overdue, I believe it to be the source of my back pains.

I sleep on my stomach more often than anything it seems if this helps. Anyways, I’ve somewhat narrowed my selection down to about 3-4 mattresses that best support my spinal alignment and have the least amount of pressure points. We have recently been looking into queen sizes but two have been thrown for a loop with two of the stores having floor model / clearance pricing on a king size model. I have never owned a king size and I’m not sure how much more difficult they are to get through door frames and other areas. The king size is somewhat appealing because of price and I really like to sleep sprawled out with plenty of arm room.

I have tried to get as much detailed info as possible about the materials and layering but I feel I’ve come up somewhat short on specifics so here is what I’ve come up with.

NW Bedding has what they call a Signature eurotop queen; pocketed coil (high coil count can’t remember exact #), 2" 28 ID talalay, 2" 19 ID talalay. This bed felt amazing to both of us, great spinal alignment and plush on the top to offer great comfort. Price is a little more than I’d like to spend but I "worked’ them down to $1,599.

Denver Mattress has their snowmass which is a somewhat common mattress as I’ve read others on this site have checked this same model out across the country. This also feels great to both of us and offers great support. The kicker is they have a king size on clearance for $1178 with frame and no warranty. Or they have it for $1354 with frame and a warranty. I’m not sure how critical the warranty is but they have a 15 year guarantee if the their is more than 1.5" of sag they will replace it.

Twilight Mattress, I talked with the owner Paul, and he appears to build the mattresses right there in the back part of the store. He is very friendly, helpful and offers great customer support. Paul will offer you a money back guarantee or he will rebuild your mattress the way you like it for free if you’re not happy with it. There did not appear to be any sort of timeframe here either.

The only problem I’ve ran into a Twilight is I didn’t get exactly the build info I was looking for. Maybe I just didn’t press the issue enough as I’m sure he does have it. Anyways he has 2 models I’m interested in; pocket coil style and a full latex support model. The pocket coil model is what he claims to be one of his high end units. Fully encased coils and has 3" of talalay latex on top. This is very similar the nw bedding model and it feels amazing. It’s plush on top and offers great support with very little pressure. Normally $1,699 but he has a king size floor model he said he would sell for $1399 with frame.

Twilight also has a full latex mattress I feel is also great. It is on the medium to firm spectrum end but while laying on my stomach it felt great. It’s not as plush on top but I felt very little pressure overall. If it proved to be too stiff he said he could change it out to a softer core no problem. The core is a 5.6" talalay and I’m not exactly on the support layers, but he said the top is made out of wool and gel. This is in a queen and normally runs for $1700 but he has a floor model he would let go for $1,300 with frame.

I know this is a large post but I’m kind of at a loss as to which direction to go. I’m always trying to get the most out of my money and I really would appreciate a break down of the value in these units. All of the above feel 1000 times better than what I currentlty try to sleep on.

Thanks
Jason

2

Hi TurboSS,

You are certainly down to a place where you are choosing between good options that are all in the good value range but have different tradeoffs. This is the place where I normally bow out of the picture except to give you a sense of the process I would follow because your personal “value equation” is much more important than my own preferences. There are none of these that IMO deserve or need to be “obviously” eliminated. While it’s tempting to go with the “commodity value” alone at this point … I would avoid the temptation to make these types of comparisons the main priority because when you look back on your mattress purchase years from now the smaller differences in price and/or value you are looking at from a “raw materials cost” point of view will be less important than how well you have slept over the long term and some of the other benefits of each choice … especially when the differences in price are not that significant.

Because of this … I would tend to draw up a list of all the differences between them (including price but not just price) and also make sure you have a list of all the components in each (fill in the gaps of the information you are missing). This would include the innerspring, the complete layering, and the details of the cover fabric and quilting. For example if one had a wool quilting or a higher quality fabric and another had a polyfoam quilting or a lower quality fabric then the wool for example could be a cooling and “value” benefit.

I think the first thing I would decide is whether you are more drawn to an innerspring/latex hybrid rather than a latex or foam core in terms of your preferences about how they each feel to you. To do this would involve spending time on both in all your sleeping positions and also flopping around, moving, and changing positions (simulating all the things you do on a mattress) to see which type of response you preferred. This would narrow down your choices to the same type and general construction of mattress. There is no “right or wrong” in this … only your preferences.

I would also “measure” each of them and assign a rating to their pressure relief and support qualities in all your sleeping positions. This will involve being completely relaxed and in a “pre-sleep” state to see which mattress gave you any hints of pressure relief or alignment issues or discomfort which may become amplified over the course of the night. Pay attention to more subtle “cues”. Which one allows you to be "completely relaxed and “let go” most easily and completely?

Finally I would assign a rating to all the other qualities of each mattress (such as those listed in post #2 here) including their likely ability to regulate sleeping temperature (based on the upper components and materials) and all the other objective (such as motion isolation if this is important to you), subjective (overall feel), and intangible benefits of each mattress. I would also include the benefits that are attached to dealing with each different manufacturer, the short and long terms services they provide, and/or having a warranty.

While I personally put more faith in the quality of materials than a warranty because the main reason people will need to replace a mattress (loss of comfort and support over time) are not warranty covered, there is always the smaller possibility of a genuine defect in a mattress which can lead to the need to repair or replace it. How important to you is price reduction vs the increased “risk” of having no warranty at all?

I know from personal experience that when you have a final list of good choices that the final elimination process can be the most difficult of all but I would avoid the tendency to become overanalytical and pay the most attention to the differences that are most important to you in practical and “real life” terms. If there is a substantial premium in one for a benefit that may be important to others but isn’t as important to you then this would have less importance in your personal “value equation”.

If you do this and eliminate choices one at a time … you should be able to get down to the final two and if there really isn’t any difference between these that you can identify (which their usually is) then it may boil down to either smaller differences in price (all else being equal), who you would prefer dealing with, some benefit that you are drawn more to, or even flipping a coin.

You are in a great position to be in but in the end the differences that are most important to you (or not) are the ones that I would use to narrow down your choices and make a final decision no matter how “ruthless” you may need to be :). There are no “bad” choices here IMO.

Again I would avoid the temptation to be analytical to the point of diminishing returns and pay attention to your “gut feel” in combination with more objective comparisons and tradeoffs.

I only wish that everyone that bought a mattress had narrowed down their choices to similar “good quality/value” options that you have available.

Phoenix

3

Thanks for your response Phoenix, I appreciate all your info. I was able to speak with Paul again at Twilight Mattress. When I started asking for more detailed info he actually gave me a tour of where they make all their mattresses and showed me their materials. I feel very confident buying from him based on our conversations and how willing he is to work with his customers (warranty, repair etc…) He didn’t have a full latex mattress on the floor at the moment but he will be building a few this week. I can have a mattress built from him exactly the way I’d like for no additional charges if I do not like the floor models.

On one of the new latex models he is going to make it a double sided model and I can’t wait to try this out. Here is what I came up with to fill in the blanks on materials used.

1" memory foam, 1" hd comfort foam and 3/4" of wool. It is an organic knit top?
5.6" Talalay latex core using either 28 ILD or 32 ILD. I believe he said their is 1" of memory foam under or above the latex core?

I will be returning next friday to test some of his new latex models, but if I do not find something I like, he will gladly build exactly what I want. Any opinions or thoughts are appreciated, he mentioned going towards the double sided mattresses for his future plans on most models. His double sided latex mattress will be around $1,700 depending on how everything turns out.

Thanks
Jason

4

Hi TurboSS,

There really isn’t much more advice I can give when you have such good options available to you (I wish everyone had options available that were that good from 3 different manufacturers). Don’t forget that your body will tell you more than any “theory”.

In the case of the mattress from Twilight, while the individual comfort layers are only thin … together they are about 2" so I would want to know the density of the memory foam and polyfoam in the comfort layers even though foam softening with only 2" of material would be less of an issue than if the layers were thicker. Wool is a great material for breathability, humidity control, and temperature control and an organic knit top is also a good choice because it will allow the feel of the layers below it to “come through” more than a woven top which can be “stiffer”. If you are using either polyfoam or memory foam and even with latex in the comfort layers … having a double sided mattress is a durability bonus but again it’s important that it meets your needs and preferences or you would just have an uncomfortable mattress that lasted longer :).

I also believe it is a real “value bonus” to work with a smaller manufacturer that will not only help you make good choices when you buy the mattress … but will also provide you with ongoing service and value after the purchase is made. If all else is equal between otherwise good choices … this would be something that would probably tilt the balance for me.

Phoenix