I’m new to this forum, and a relative beginner in mattress buying. My current mattress is a King Koil piece of crap (Perfect Contour Ascot) that I bought at a discount store 4 years ago. I was a student and it was my first foray into mattress shopping on a budget, so I skipped the whole research aspect and bought based on price and convenience – which means 4 years later my mattress is a pancake and I don’t want to repeat the same errors I made previously.
I’m a bit hesitant to buy big names since this past experience was pretty mediocre, so I’ve been looking into the off-brands that produce locally. A small mattress depot close to where I live (in London, ON) sells Sleep Inn mattresses at very attractive prices and the mattresses themselves seem quite attractive. I also like that they’re manufactured somewhat locally to me. The problem is, I can’t find anything about this brand other than what’s on their website (no reviews, etc.).
When I talked with them a few months ago (March) … they seemed very open about the materials they were using in their mattresses. They told me that they were using “price appropriate” foams and their polyfoam ranged from 1.2 lbs to 2.1 lbs and they used memory foam from 3 - 5 lbs (in other words they run the range from low to good quality). They also told me that they would be happy to provide the specs of any mattress to a retailer that didn’t know them.
Overall my sense was that they were very transparent and “good people” but of course an assessment of any particular mattress that they made in terms of quality and value would depend on knowing what was in it and the price it was selling for. A manufacturer like this would typically make better quality/value than a major brand mattress in a similar price range.
Thanks so much for this! It’s great to know that there are some legitimate options outside of the mainstream/big box mattress retailers.
I’m a stomach sleeper with a tendency toward knee and hip pain, whereas my partner is a side/back sleeper with back and neck pain. He prefers firmer mattress surfaces and I prefer medium-firm. So we were looking at some coil mattresses in the medium-firm range (and have no clue what we’re doing).
Particularly I was interested in a mattress with the following specs:’
Support System
800 Foam Encased Pocket Coils in Queen Size
1016 Foam Encased Pocket Coils in King Size
Heavy Duty Fibre Pad Insulator
Extra Dual Torsion Edge Guard Springs around Perimeter
Motion Absorbing Support Base
Comfort System
1.5" 5Lbs Visco Memory Foam - which contours to the shape of your body, elimination Pressure Points
Heavy Weight Flex-Fiber Pad Insulator
2" High Density Soy Based Foam in the quilting
Soft Knit Fabric, Tack & Jump Quilting with Ultra Plush Fiber
Aloe Ver Fabric Quilting on top for Dust Might Resistance.
Foundation
8" Reinforced Wooded Foundation which helps the coils work in parallel
Non-Slip Top to keep mattress from moving
4 Durable Corner Guards
The specs are a little incomplete and will need someone to call the factory to find out what they are. The support system is fine (as long as it meets your support needs based on your testing) but the weak link of a mattress is almost always in the comfort layers and this is where knowing the quality of the foams used (especially polyfoam) is most important.
5 lb memory foam is good quality.
A heavyweight fiberflex insulator over the springs is also good (it insulates the springs from the foam so that the foam doesn’t sink into the springs and evens out the compression of the springs).
The 2" High Density Soy Based foam is the one I would be most concerned about. This is polyfoam and knowing the density would be important to know. Lower quality polyfoam in the upper layers of a mattress is the most common reason for soft spots and impressions in the mattress. It’s only 2" which is less than many but I would still want to know the density of the polyfoam.
The fiber in the quilting is probably polyester and if this is too thick it will also compress over time and can lead to impressions. It’s there to create some surface softness and breathability but fibers tend to compress and become firmer over time.
So it has some possibilities but the density of the polyfoam and the thickness of the synthetic fiber would be the possible weak link of this mattress.
You’ve probably seen this but some of the better choices I’m aware of in the Greater Toronto area are in post #1 here.
Thanks again for the insights. Our budget won’t allow for us to purchase a new mattress until December (and even then it will only allow for something in the $600-$800 range, which already puts us at a disadvantage I’m sure). Regardless, I have plenty of time to try and discern what the foam materials are before plunking down any cash.
That being said, what would be red flag indicators of foam quality (name, density, numerical rating) versus indicators of quality and longevity?
The King Koil that I’m sleeping on now was a budget model at a discount store and never claimed to be super high quality. It had, at initial time of purchase, perhaps maybe a 1" Eurotop of cheap foam which has since compressed into nothingness. The spring system is sagging and I’ve got not one, but three layers of mattress pads (one thin cotton batting type, one synthetic featherbed type, and most recently, a Natura exposed wool pile topper which is seeming to make a difference at least) attempting to do the job of foam that never really did its intended job anyway. It’s pretty pathetic that I’m padding my 4 yr old mattress from the outside to make it bearable, and that, by far, is the most disturbing thing to me and what I’d like to avoid in the future.
Thanks again for all your insights – they are greatly appreciated by me and everyone else on this forum!
The comfort layers section and the support layers section of the site has all the information about the different qualities of different foams. In general though … polyfoam is the most commonly used material that will have issues with foam softening in certain densities and in certain types of construction (for example … 1.5 lb polyfoam in thinner layers in a two sided mattress may be quite durable even though if they were in thicker layers in a one sided mattress they would be much less durable). What is over and under each layer will also make a difference (the foams closest to the sleeping surface are the most subject to softening). Lower density polyfoam (less than 1.8 lb) in the upper layers especially would be one of the most important “warning signs”. Lower density memory foam (less than 4 lbs depending on body type) will also present durability problems unless they are very thin layers used for example in a quilting layer in the mattress. The key is to use the best quality materials that are possible in your budget range.
I would be willing to bet that the person who was claiming that it was “super high quality” probably had no idea about the type or quality/density of all the layers in the mattress so these were probably just “words” meant to sell a mattress and had little basis in fact. King Koil does make some mattresses (their Xtended Life series) that use higher density polyfoam but finding all the information you really need to know is very difficult and sometimes just not possible. If the factory doesn’t provide this information to the retailer … then the retailer can’t provide it to the consumer … even if they would otherwise want to.
the odds are pretty good that the foam is the problem and you may be surprised that if you took the mattress apart that the springs may still be fine. If foam softens … then adding toppers can’t fix the problem except perhaps very partially or temporarily. Toppers only really work for a mattress that is too firm. There’s more about some of the “not so great” options that may help a mattress that is sagging in post #4 here. As you discovered … a thicker wool topper is one of the most effective possibilities but even this is only a partial solution at best.
Unjfortunately this has almost become the “norm” in the industry today … at least with the larger brands that are sold in most of the mass market outlets. Even premium mattresses that cost thousands of dollars can have too much lower quality polyfoam in the upper layers and may last even less than the 4 years you had from yours. the key to avoiding this is to know the quality of every layer in your mattress so you can predict how it will perform in a year or more down the road.
Comfort is what you feel when you lie on a mattress. Support is what you feel the next morning (and with care this can be tested fairly accurately in a mattress showroom). Durability though is about how a mattress will feel and perform in a year or a few years down the road. This can’t be felt in a showroom because you can’t feel quality and even the lowest quality materials can feel great for a while or in a showroom. Quality/durability is the third part of the “mattress shopping puzzle” and is just as important as comfort and support. It can only be known if you know the details and “quality specs” of every layer in your mattress.
Wow. Thank you so much for the thoughtful and informative response! Two days ago I knew absolutely nothing about mattresses and now I feel like I’m informed enough to not get taken advantage of when making a purchase.
So one additional thought before I start my journey of narrowing down a mattress for purchase. I mentioned that my partner and I tend toward firmer rather than plush mattresses, and that we have an arsenal of mattress toppers in our collection. My partner was lamenting the lack of availability of double-sided mattresses and articulated that he actually had a preference for these if they were still available.
I did some online research and noticed that a local retailer carries a basic reversible spring mattress in my price range. I’ve read elsewhere on this site that a flippable mattress, even if made with slightly less quality materials than a one-sided one, will still last longer.
If longevity and affordability is a key concern and I have the necessary padding via cotton and wool toppers to make an extra-firm double sided mattress a bit more plush, could this be a legitimate option? I realize the materials aren’t articulated clearly either in the description, so it could be hit and miss, but I’m sure once I mention this to my boyfriend his interest will pique and I’d like to be able to either agree to check it out depending on your perspective, or dissuade him from wasting his time if you think it’s generally not advisable.
Yes … a double sided mattress will last longer than a similar one sided mattress if you flip the mattress on a regular basis (once a season or so).
A topper will also increase the lifespan of a mattress that uses less durable foams because the topper will absorb much of the regular compression. The topper will usually wear out before the mattress but it can be replaced without having to replace the whole mattress.
I think so yes (assuming that the topper/mattress combination provides you with the pressure relief you need which from the sounds of your “collection” shouldn’t be a problem).
As you mentioned they don’t mention the density of the 2" polyfoam layer but in principle this would work. A continuous coil can be the least expensive coil system though and it may also use low density foam which means that you may be able to find better value in the same type of mattress but the concept is a good one. Generally a local factory direct manufacturer like the ones on the list I linked will have better value in a mattress of this type and a few phone calls should find a few that are good options. I can also tell you that in my experiences with sleep that sleepfactory is not very helpful when it comes to providing you with any kind of specs about their mattresses.
I went mattress shopping yesterday and ended up placing an order. My boyfriend and I decided that a double-sided mattress was best for us in terms of longevity and even wear of sleep surfaces. However, they aren’t readily found in my region and having them shipped from Toronto was out of my budget. So needless to say, our options were limited.
We initially looked at The Bay (large Canadian retailer) because they were listed as a retailer of Marshall Mattresses. The one in my city carries two models of reversible Marshall mattresses - one pillowtop and one tightop. They seemed lovely and well-constructed with quality materials, and the salesman (an older gent) confessed to us that he has had his Marshall mattress for 18 years. Unfortunately, even with their industry standard “50% off sale plus an additional 15%,” these were about $1000 above our budget.
We went to Sleep Factory next, knowing they were the only other local retailer that offered reversible mattresses. I ended up ordering a custom(ish) double-sided extra firm euro-top for $800 inclusive. The materials seem fairly mediocre but the salesman promised that he would have it manufactured with high-density 2.2lb polyfoam in the thickest foam layer (3"). With a continuous coil and higher density foams, I’m pretty sure this thing will be built like a tank. I’ll update when it comes in and I’ve actually slept on it.
It does suck being limited geographically though. If I was in the GTA I’d probably have a much higher quality mattress for a better price coming to me. :unsure:
Are you sure that the link you provided is the mattress you bought? It links to a one sided Eurotop mattress not a two sided mattress.
Hopefully the one you purchased has the 3" of 2.2 lb foam in the comfort layers and has less of the additional lower density foam (the one you linked has 3 extra inches of polyfoam which would be the weak link of the mattress).
I live in London, ON. The link is the general model, but the Sleep Factory will customize all of their own models (they sell Sleep Factory brand as well as standard big names) to customer specifications. So I chose that model, but it will be made double sided and with 2.2 lb high density polyfoam. It was $100 extra to make it double-sided, which I thought was reasonable enough. Since we were concerned about longevity and prefer a firm mattress, the salesman said he would also request that the factory make it with higher density foam than what normally comes standard (the 2.2 lb rather than 1.8lb).
Again, we were on a pretty small budget so I hope we made a reasonable choice. Time will tell. It’s not going to be manufactured until next week most likely.
I did a little bit more research in the London area and talked with a couple of the SleepFactory outlets as well (I hadn’t talked with them for a while). Their house brand used to be made by Springwall but they have now changed manufacturers to Endless Comfort. They are a group of franchise outlets and some of them are more knowledgeable and accommodating than others. Some of them also carry different models than others (each franchisee can choose what they want to carry on their floor). Any of them should be able to phone the factory to find out the layering and density of the foams in their mattresses though (besides just the 3" comfort layer which is very good quality polyfoam). This way you would have a better idea of any potential “weak links” in your mattress. ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: endlesscomfort.com/
Thanks again for the excellent info! I think given my location and budget, I probably made a reasonable choice. I had actually called around to some retailers/manufacturers in the GTA about delivery to London, but the cost would have been exorbitant and my other option was to rent a Uhaul or something, which, in addition to gas, would have upped the cost considerably as well.
The salesman at Sleep Factory seemed pretty honest and did know the different foam densities in the mattresses he had on the floor, and he echoed what you’re saying about the different locations choosing which models/grades of models (apparently the models listed on the website come in a variety of grades with higher and lower materials) to carry.
Again, it’s both interesting and disheartening that people aren’t aware of their higher-quality/higher-value local options and gravitate to big box stores in their initial mattress searches. I’m glad this website exists to show us that there are in fact alternatives, and better ones at that.
I think you made a reasonable choice as well and while I don’t normally recommend a mattresses where some of the specs aren’t known … the odds are good that even the “missing” specs are better than most mainstream brands.
Yes … I noticed quite a difference in the knowledge levels of the various outlets they have. It seems that you were dealing with one of the better ones.
I certainly agree with you here as well. It’s interesting that the 15 largest manufacturers have about 86% of the market share and the hundreds of manufacturers all across North America that make better quality/value mattresses and in many cases have been making good quality mattresses for decades and sometimes for generations share the remaining 14%. IMO … it should be the other way around. When I started this website I realized that a big part of the reason for this is that consumers have so few sources of information that is based in fact that they can use to make more meaningful comparisons rather than just marketing stories and advertising claims that can’t be substantiated. The dominant players in the industry have little to no interest in helping consumers make better choices and comparisons or differentiating themselves on quality and value.
The mattress industry is one of the few industries where the “norm” is that people buy a product that they know nothing about the quality of the materials that are in it. It’s like buying a piece of furniture that has a nice veneer with particle board underneath it and paying the price of real wood.
One step at a time though and once consumers start to insist on more meaningful information then the manufacturers will have little choice but to become more open about their materials.
You certainly did make a better choice than the vast majority of consumers that would otherwise have purchased a major brand or bought into a story or marketing techniques that have little to nothing to do with quality.
So congratulations on your new mattress I hope you have chance to give us some feedback when you’ve had the chance to sleep on it.
I get my new mattress tomorrow. I plan on using the toppers I already have on my existing mattress on my new one simply because I have to put them somewhere (and I’ve grown quite fond of the Natura exposed wool one – it sleeps super cool and adds a layer of comfort that I haven’t experienced with foam toppers). My question is, will using toppers on a brand new mattress help extend the life of the polyfoams?
Or if they’re subject to degradation, would the pressure of sleeping bodies have the same effect regardless of the addition of mattress toppers?
Thanks!
(and I’ll make sure to review the mattress once I’ve slept on it for a while!)
Wool is a great material and it can certainly make a difference in controlling the micro climate and temperature of a mattress. Besides … it “feels” good
To some degree yes depending on the thickness of the wool. It will reduce the amount of compression and wear the foam on top of your mattress is subject to although not to the same degree as a foam topper.
Anything that is on top of a mattress that absorbs some of the pressure and reduces the forces that the upper layers of your mattress are exposed to will have some effect on extending the life of the upper layers of your mattress which are usually the weak link of a mattress and the ones that soften and degrade the fastest.
Okay, so last night was the first night that I slept on my custom(ish) Sleep Factory mattress. It’s obviously too early to give a well-rounded review, but I do have some initial concerns.
When we picked it up (wrapped in plastic and looking lovely and perfect all that), we were a bit nervous that it wasn’t actually made with the 2.2lb foam like the salesman claimed he would order it. It felt very fluffy on each side and we were both worried that it would be too soft.
And then I slept on it. The quilt component is indeed soft and fluffy, but to me it felt like putting fluff on top of a brick. I woke up with sore hips (I carry most of my weight in my hips, so if I can’t sink in I get pressure points there). My boyfriend slept well and said it was much better than our previous worn-out mattress. I flip around a lot and felt that trying to sleep on my side and back was not comfortable but that sleeping on my stomach was okay.
I’ve read here that polyfoams go through an initial softening period. I’m assuming the denser/firmer feeling layer underneath the fluffier components is the higher density foam (the salesman had warned us that 2.2lb foam would feel very hard at first and would soften up over time to be more comfortable). The mattress is 13" thick with about a 2" eurotop on each side. Surely it’s not the springs I’m feeling?
Should I be concerned, or is the hardness of the mattress something that will be temporary?
The quality of a foam (measured in density) has little to do with the softness/firmness of a foam. Both low density and high density foams come in a wide range of softness firmness levels (which is measured in ILD or IFD). In other words … you can’t “feel” the quality of a foam. You can only know the quality by weighing the layer (or trusting the specs that are provided with the mattress).
When you test a one sided mattress with a Eurotop and then make it two sided using the same layering … you will have thicker layers of soft foam on the bottom which will make the mattress softer and less supportive than the one you tested in a store. Two sided mattresses can be more durable than one sided mattresses (if they are flipped regularly) and higher density foams are more durable than lower density foams but two sided mattresses are are also more limited in the type of construction that is appropriate to that type of construction so that the layers on the bottom aren’t too soft and thick.
As you mentioned … there is an initial breakin period for the materials in the mattress and there is also an adjustment period for the person as well. This can vary from person to person and can also depend on how different the new mattress is compared to the old. In general … it’s a good idea to give a new mattress at least 30 days. Sore hips can come from a mattress that is too firm on top (you may be feeling the firmness of the layers in the upper part of the mattress which restricts blood flow and can cause numbness, tingling, or discomfort) or it could also come from sinking down too far which can put the hip joint out of its neutral alignment position. The “fluffy” layers on top provide a “hand feel” that some people prefer and some don’t but are only part of the picture and act in combination with the other layers to provide pressure relief and alignment. It can also depend on the thickness and softness of the 'fluffy layers" (which are usually in the quilting).
The fact that you were OK on your stomach may indicate that the thickness/firmness of the upper layers are OK but that you aren’t sinking in far enough in your more “curvy” positions but time will tell more because a night or two when you are sleeping on a new mattress isn’t really an accurate way to assess how well the mattress may work for you.
Yes … all foams go through an initial softening period over the first 90 days or so and the higher quality the foam the less this will be. This initial softening is followed by a more gradual softening over a much longer time. The firmness of the foam has little to nothing to do with its density. With the thickness of the layers over the springs (I don’t know the exact construction of the mattress) … it’s unlikely that you are feeling any springs. If they used the same layering on both sides of the springs as the description of the Tranquility here … (which has 6" of foam over what is probably a 6" - 7" spring) … then your two sided mattress with the same construction would be closer to 17" - 18" not 13 ". This indicates that the layering on each side may be different from what is listed for the one sided version. In some ways this would be better (because of the “risk” attached to thick soft layers on both sides of a two sided mattress) but it would also mean that the mattress would be very different from the one you tested in the store. If the soft comfort layers are thinner, it may also explain your hip pain.
I’m not sure because I don’t know the layering details of the mattress or what the “weak link” may be but I would give it more time to go through the initial softening and break in period and for you to adjust to the mattress before making any real assessments based on patterns that are consistent over a longer time period rather than the experiences of a few nights.
Well this is odd, but it was actually my wool topper that was making my mattress feel hard and uncomfortable. I stripped it off last night and slept fine. Good support, firm enough but not too firm, etc.
My last mattress, which essentially had no cushion left, was made significantly more comfortable with the addition of the topper, so it was a bit surprising to me that it could have the opposite effect on a different mattress.
But I guess it goes to show how layering different ways can have such a strong effect on how a mattress feels!
It did don on me that I have no clue how the layering of my new mattress was done since they changed it around to make it double-sided, but I’m also glad that I don’t have an 18" thick mattress with 6" of foam on each side! Time will tell I guess.
As you discovered … the feel of any layers that are used over the mattress will depend on what is underneath them.
If the mattress surface layers are softer … then a wool topper will generally make it firmer because the wool would lessen the amount you are sinking in to the soft top layer. This is because the wool would “cushion” the hips or shoulders for example which would increase the surface area that was compressing the mattress which would mean that it didn’t sink in as far. This would increase the pressure on the hips or shoulders (depending to some degree on the specifics of the layering in the top of the mattress)
On the other hand … with a firmer surface layer that was too firm … then the wool can act as a cushioning layer because it’s softer than the underlying layer and can provide some localized pressure relief.
Yes … mattress layering is much more complex than most people would suspect and every layer (including a mattress protector and any toppers or bedding) will affect every other layer in a mattress to a smaller or larger degree. this is part of the “art and science” of mattress construction and design and it can be both amazingly challenging and at times amazingly frustrating
I’m also glad they made it thinner which is a much more appropriate and less risky construction for a two sided mattress … and the most important part of all is that once the mattress has gone through it’s initial breaking in period and your body has made any adjustments from its old “sleeping memory” … that the mattress and any fine tuning you add (in the way of toppers, bedding etc) ends up being exactly the right balance of pressure relief, alignment, and “feel” regardless of the actual layering that produces it (which is only the means to the end not the goal itself).
I’m looking forward to any ongoing feedback you may have about your new mattress and any “fine tuning” you may add to it.
I hope you have chance to give us some feedback when you’ve had the chance to sleep on it.