Also see post on oct 30 th for the question I had on Christeli mattress, and answers given, that might help to.
Redwinger,
I was wondering what you thought of the Palais Grand Royale that you purchased. I am seriously considering this mattress. I like the latex support layer and the foam specs are high quality.
Also, the Christeli rep was telling me that the mattress comes in three sections and that you can interchange the comfort layers to adjust the feel of the mattress, i.e. You can take the layer of 5.3 lb memory (the one under the latex support layer) and use it in different orders with the top comfort layer (the European box top)on top of the latex support layer to make it more plush. Have you experimented with this and does it work?
Any additional thoughts on your buying experience with Christeli and if you were able to get any discounts would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Hi Willy G,
Iâm not Redwinger of course so I canât share my personal experience with the mattress but I can tell you that the different configurations for the Palais Grand Royale would feel different from each other so in this sense it would certainly âworkâ.
The mattress has 6 different configurations (if you only count the ones with memory foam on top).
#1 & #2 are the latex core with each of the two toppers on top by themselves (no topper underneath).
#3 & #4 are the latex core with one topper on the bottom and one on top.
#5 & #6 are the latex core with both toppers on top in either order.
All of these would have a different âfeelâ. The softest would probably be with the latex core on the bottom with the 3" topper in the middle and the 4" topper on the top.
I would also be aware that they no longer offer the $29 return option (they are now exchange only).
Hopefully Redwinger will also see this and share his thoughts about any of the different configurations heâs tried.
Phoenix
Phoenix,
As always, thanks for the quick reply. I think this is a fairly neat feature being able to try different combinations.
Sorry about the late response. Yes its has been three weeks now on this mattress. I have changed the configurations about a week ago to see if I get firmer support. I Have the base 8" at the bottom with the 4" next and the 8lb on top. I do like this configuration however I am not completely sold yet. I am not sinking into a hole as much as before and I have one more week for return, and will calling today to see if I am doing it right. I might have to go with the 8" then the 8lbs to firm it up. Or might go back to the original set up like in the picture. I do really like the bed. With the first set up like in the pictures online I was sinking in more than I wanted to, so I switched it up like I said, 8" bottom, then 4-5" next with the 8 lb on top and that firmed it up more to my liking. However I am still have pain problems with may have nothing to do with the bed. Yes I think this bed is worth the money compared to the TP lines with the ablility to switch up the firmness.
I am going to possibly call and pay the price to see if I add one more layer of 8 lb on top if that will do the trick??? Being that I sleep deeper and longer on my back before I roll over with the current configuration (original set up, also was great) but with all foams you do get a pocket that the body âfitsâ into and wakes me to have to roll over. Then I have to get a new spot to allow the foam to come back up. its really fast doing that by the way. but again you do leave an impression in it and I do always end up on my side after some point in the night so I didnât know if I have enough 8 lb on top or putting the 8 lbs on top of the 8" base and it will give me a firmer non sinking hole? Donât know if this is helping you or not? It really comes down to getting the bed set up to fit my needs or yours, but at least I do have options with the Palais bed and that is a good thing. Yes so far, its worth the money. you can call directly if you like for questions? donât know how the site allows that or how to do it so no one else get my number?
Phoenix did I say if correctly with the positions of the layers? Meaning the 8" Base over the 4.5â, with the 8lb on top? Or to get it firmer should I try the 8" with the 8lb directly on top of that and put the 4-5" on the very bottom? Not sure how all the layers work with the different configurations so I am asking the store today for the best with my needs. If not I donât know it foam with be the best for me then. And of course I have a 3K adjustable bed that I will have to keep. By the way this is a good adjustable base, but you can deal the price as I said before. let me know if you need anymore questions that I can answer for you today. I will keep an better eye on this post, again sorry for the late reply
Willey G, I think I paid $69 or $89 for a full return, the $29 was not an option. But on 11-1-13 when I bought it I have the full option of a full return of my mattress. I have to keep the Rize #5 adjustable bed. That is non returnable. So as I mentioned earlier in a post I think that I am going to keep this and just need to get the layer right. That is what makes the bed for me. It allows options of all their bed rolled into one per say. So if its affordable for you I would and did spend the money on it versus the $11K with tax for the Allure with adjustable bed under it, so the cost difference along with the fact their product, with Phoenixâs help showed me that they do have a good product materials. That is why I went with them. My total cost was $5609 with the Rize contemporary adjustable frame. They call it something else though. Their cost was like $3200 and like I said you/I got if for $2600 so that was helpful. Again anyquestions feel free to contact me.
Phoenix is there anyway to allow personal notes or messages, and or call to be done, and how would that happen if someone wanted to talk openly about this without getting any a liability law suits going. All of this is of âmy opinionâ only and I am ânot an expertâ, but you know someone can find a way.
Thanks Redwinger
Hi redwinger,
The forum has a private messaging function you can use (you can just click the private message icon underneath where it has the number of posts in the userâs information on the left of each of their posts, or you can click on their username and there is a private message button in their profile, or you can click the private message link under the search forum tab and then click compose and enter their username).
Phoenix
Thank you Phoenix as I can talk with willy G
thanks tom
Willy G, I have sent you a private message so please look in your message box if you need or want to talk with me privately about the mattress?
thanks Redwinger
Hi Phoenix, as you know I have purchased the Grand Palis by Christeli Mattress company. Along with that the Rize #5 adjustable bed. I have tried two configurations so far. In your opinion am I trying these without enough time between adjustments for the back to allow the new layers? Example, set up bed exactly like the picture on the sales for the mattress. Slept for almost two and half weeks and found myself sinking into a hole, yet comfortable, but at times I had to physical get up and move over to allow the foam to bounce back. I then set up the primary 8" Latex on the bottom, the 4.5 lbs, then then 8 lb on top of that and have almost two weeks on that. Much better as far as the âholeâ goes. This would help Willy G questioning also? Am I setting this up the right way? I am trying to reach the Company to decide if I am going to keep it as the 30 days is fast approaching. But I believe that I have a good mattress combo with alternate ways to set it up so I am hoping that I can figure this out before I have to send it back. So with all this my main concern is pain upon waking. Yes I am under pain management with Drâs and have a serious disk bulge issues. With that in mind is my back to making adjustments to the bed and I have to allow these changes to take place for the long haul and you have posted in #47 or do I have the wrong set up. Should I try or will it work to have the 8" then the 8 lb for the last two layers with the 4.5 lb on the very bottom? All seem confusing to me on how to âsetâ up the configurations. Before I return it without haste, do I have a GREAT product and just need to find the right configurations or is the a problem with the my back and will have to find the best way to sleep with it no matter which mattress company I purchase from. Yes, I know you cannot see my back or donât have the time to hear it all, but if I am close to the best I can get and with the options with the Grand Palis then it would come down to getting it as close as I can. Sounds like I am asking if I have purchased the best mattress out there question, huh? I think that it would be that I have options with this mattress where others i would not that is one of the reasons (along with you GREAT input) to purchase it to begin with. Any insight would be great if you can provide as I have 5 days left to return. Then I would have to start over in more detail with your help.
As always Phoenix, THANK you for your time
Redwinger
Hi redwinger,
The first thing I would suggest is a more detailed conversation with Christeli because they would have much more specific knowledge of the properties of the different foams they use and the effect of the different configurations on an a"average" customer. For example I donât know the temperature sensitivity or relative softness of their different density memory foams or the relative softness of each configuration in terms of âpressure reliefâ softness or âsupportâ softness (see post #15 here) and when you are trying to fine tune or customize a mattress itâs important to identify the underlying cause of any symptoms you are having in terms of primary support, secondary support, or pressure relief (see post #4 here) and more specific details of the symptoms you are experiencing. This way itâs more likely to identify which types of changes have the highest odds of success in improving the specific symptom you are working on reducing or eliminating.
In general though I would take a symptomatic approach and identify the specific symptoms you experience on any combination rather than the âfeelâ of the mattress which is more subjective and not necessarily related to specific symptoms.
In your description of the original layering it seems that you didnât have any symptoms (at least that I could see from your description) and the main issue you had was the impressions and recovery of the memory foam. If this is correct then this may just be the normal response of memory foam which takes more time to recover than faster reacting types of foam (which is why some people talk about a feeling of âsleeping in sandâ with memory foam). This by itself doesnât indicate the need to make any changes unless you also have specific symptoms on the mattress (muscle strain or soreness, back pain or discomfort, or pressure points which lead to limbs tingling or falling asleep or pressure points that are sore or other symptoms that can be identified). Did you have any specific symptoms in this configuration?
This is where their knowledge of the different components would be necessary. I would have thought with more memory foam on top than with your original configuration that the impressions would have been more not less so this may have to do with the specific response and characteristics of each layer which I donât know. Again though ⌠your specific âsymptomsâ would be the guideline I would go by. Did this configuration cause you any pain or discomfort in any of your sleeping positions? Can you describe how it differed from the original configuration outside of the âholesâ that you felt.
One of the most important âcluesâ to what may be happening is also to identify the specific changes in any symptoms in each configuration because this can also point to the direction of change that may be most beneficial to you. This means that it would be helpful to contrast and compare the differences between the two different configurations you have tried and how your symptoms changed.
All of this is made much more complex of course because you are also dealing with a back condition which may mean that unusual combinations may work better for you than it would for someone else whose back was healthier and in a more normal range.
This is the part Iâm not clear on and it would be helpful for any guidance from them (or on the forum) to know the specific type and location of the pain along with the sleeping position you experience it, when it happens, more about your body type and weight and sleeping positions, the temperature in your room, the type of mattress you had before and how your symptoms on this mattress differ from your previous mattress, the differences between your symptoms on the two configurations, and any other information that may be helpful in identifying the underlying cause of any pain or discomfort and what type of changes have the best odds of correcting it.
The first step (outside of talking with them) is to identify specific symptoms that you experience in each configuration rather than just how each combination âfeelsâ. Itâs the actual symptoms that are always the most important and how the mattress âfeelsâ can be dealt with as a preference issue rather than as a necessity.
Phoenix
We ordered the Danieli model mattress from Chriteli in February of 2014. We were very unsure of this mattress from the start but decided to give it a longer trial period. Almost immediately, we received an offer from Christeli of a premium set of sheets if we would write a review. We declined to write a quick review because we had not slept on the mattress long enough. More importantly, the offer smacked of quid pro quo. For that reason we look at all of Christeli reviews with suspicion.
After 12 months the Daneli mattress was very uncomfortable on both the firmer and softer sides. I also felt like the performance was deteriorating. My wife and I have different sleeping styles and both of us are disappointment. You sink too deep without any support. My wife and I both are tossing and turning and waking with back discomfort. This mattress is simply awful and has been a waste of money. The purchase price was high. Since we were out of the âtrialâ period I called Christeli to see if they would make a deal on a replacement with a different model. They declined. We are replacing it with a different brand mattress.
The Christeli mattress was a very expensive mistake. And we passed on free sheets so this is an honest evaluation.
Hi kbmw94,
Thanks for the update ⌠and Iâm sorry to hear that your mattress didnât work out as well as you hoped for.
Iâm also disappointed to hear about the âincentiveâ for a review and I also think that these types of practices affect the credibility of their reviews in general (although as you probably know I generally suggest that itâs not a good idea to pay much attention to mattress reviews anyway ⌠see post #13 here).
I canât help but wonder though why you didnât exchange the mattress for a different model if the one you chose wasnât working out well for you. This is the reason that a trial period with an online purchase can be important because you canât know for certain whether any mattress that you havenât tried in person will work out for you or whether you will sleep well on it until youâve tried it and once the trial period is over then itâs too late to solve any issues that you may have with an online purchase.
Phoenix
PS: I deleted your post in the other topic which was a duplicate of your post here.
Hey Phoenix,
As you already know, we think highly of your web site, knowledge, and you in general.
Regarding your comment about our incentivized program, I strongly disagree that it affects the credibility of our reviews. When you read the reviews on our web site, youâll see four and five star reviews along with single star reviews too. When we ask owners to write about their experience with our company, we ask for an honest evaluation. Comments that suggest otherwise on this thread are false and misleading.
Why we didnât return the mattress during the short trail period is a good question. We had earlier purchased an
expensive Talalay mattress locally. It was a nice mattress that is now in the guest room. We just decided that we preferred memory foam to latex. That was more me than my wife. So we bought the Christeli Deneli. Perhaps I just didnât want to acknowledge two expensive mistakes. However, repackaging was required to return the Christeli. That would be all but impossible to efficiently accomplish. Manufacturers use heavy machines and vacuums to package mattressâ for shipping. I certainly think that requesting a product evaluation is reasonable. However, when offering something in return is highly prejudicial and the request for the evaluation came very quickly. Too quickly in my opinion. My impression was that the offer for free sheets was prejudicial.
Kbmw94,
We appreciate your feedback. Iâve passed it along so we can evaluate our language to make sure our offers are received by our customers they way they are intended to be.
Itâs our process to reach out to every single customer within 24 hours (that started January 2015) and then again within a few months of your trial period (that started April 2013) to see how everything is going.
When we have overstock of items such as pillows or sheets, we absolutely give them away when someone writes about their experience, good and bad. If you read our Facebook and Twitter profiles, youâll see we even post the promotions on their also.
Lastly, weâll reach out to every single customer again after two years to see how everything is going, and to ask for an updated long term review. We work hard to create an amazing experience, and encourage our customers to share about theirs. And when we learn someoneâs experience was less than amazing, we work hard to change that.
I can assure you there wasnât any prejudice with our offer.
Best,
Vincent
Customer Experience Team
CHRISTELI
PS: I called and left you a VM this morning. Please call me direct so we can try and make your experience amazing and mattress comfortable.
Hi Christeli,
Thanks for your comments ⌠I appreciate them and as you know I also think highly of you and the mattresses you make as well.
I think that the whole topic of reviews is a complex one and from my perspective one of the biggest issues in the industry is that they have the influence on consumers that they do. I see this as a reflection of lack of consumer education about mattresses in general and to some degree a reflection of the unwillingness of many consumers to do more legitimate and meaningful research instead of taking âshortcutsâ for a purchase that can affect the quality of their lives for many years.
Iâll make a few more comments as well but one of my most common comments on the forum reads as follows âŚ
Unlike a review about the knowledge and service of a company ⌠the only thing a mattress review will normally tell someone else is how one particular person likes a particular mattress and even this is usually based only on initial or early impressions that are very subjective and little else. In some cases (with some of the newer online âsimplified choiceâ mattresses especially) they are also driven by the income they earn for referrals more than a genuine desire to share their experiences to help others.
While someone writing about a mattress that they love or someone writing about a mattress that they donât like certainly isnât an issue and itâs a natural tendency for people to want to share their experiences (positive or negative) with others ⌠the problem starts when someone else believes that other peopleâs reviews or experiences with a mattress has any meaning or relevance for them as well and then start using reviews as a meaningful source of guidance for their own purchase. This can be very risky when it comes to more individualized purchases such as a mattress and would be similar to someone buying clothes or shoes that are a good fit for somebody else but not for them. If someone decided to buy clothes or shoes based on the âvotesâ of 100 people that knew nothing about them or the clothes that would be likely to âfitâ them or that would match their own circumstances or their unique needs and preferences ⌠I wonder what the odds of a successful outcome would be?
Even worse ⌠what often happens is that many consumers go overboard either in their praise or their criticisms when they either recommend the same mattress to others or tell people to avoid it completely when they really donât have the knowledge, experience, or expertise to provide mattress advice for anyone else.
In many cases they also completely confuse the their own comfort on a mattress with the quality of a mattress and believe that a mattress that they donât sleep well on is a poor quality mattress that other people should avoid or that a mattress they sleep well on is a good quality mattress that other people should purchase which of course isnât the case at all. They donât realize that comfort and what I call PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) is related to the design of the mattress and how well it âfitsâ each individual person and not the quality of the materials.
I also realize though that there is another side to reviews from the perspective of online companies such as yours where reviews have become a major part of online marketing and consumer perception (for better or for worse) and that âcounting reviewsâ has become just another version of âcounting coilsâ ⌠and of course both of these are only about marketing and have little real value when it comes to being a useful way to choose a mattress.
Because this is part of the current reality of consumer buying habits (again because most consumers donât know any better) ⌠online mattress companies have become more and more heavily involved in âdrivingâ reviews through various methods that range from more frequent followup to various forms of incentivising the review process so that they can âpoint toâ their reviews as a source of differentiation. In some ways this is somewhat similar to manufacturers adding a few coils to their coil count and then pointing to the higher number as being âbetterâ.
The problem with incentivising reviews is human nature itself which is difficult to avoid. When the review process is incentivised ⌠itâs common knowledge that the reviews will change their âtoneâ into more positive versions with different âlanguageâ that is no longer a completely accurate reflection of a customerâs actual experience that would be the case with a more âorganicâ review process. While I certainly applaud any companyâs efforts to âencourageâ reviews with more frequent or ongoing followup that identifies any issues with the purchase that a consumer makes and at the same time requests that they review the mattress online ⌠and this type of followup can often lead to very positive reviews about a companyâs service and their efforts to correct any issues that could otherwise have led to a negative review ⌠I also believe that when there is an âincentiveâ involved that the review process itself and the âtoneâ or content of the reviews become skewed and to varying degrees and they are no longer a completely reliable indication or reflection of customersâ true experiences. The incentives introduce too much uncertainty into the review process. There are even some companies that carry this to an extreme or even worse pay for âfakeâ reviews or pay to have their reviews âcleaned upâ and in these cases I personally donât trust the validity of their reviews at all.
Unfortunately ⌠kbmw94âs review is an example of the type of review that I have been discussing. If you reduce their review down to itâs basics it simply reads âI purchased a mattress that I didnât like and then I didnât take advantage of the opportunity that was available to me to replace the mattress with something that I liked betterâ. They then wrote a ânegativeâ review which crossed the line into using language that says things like âthis mattress is simply awfulâ or that âthis mattress has been a waste of moneyâ which of course are only subjective opinions that only apply to two people. The problem is that unfortunately the âtoneâ and content of their review will likely also affect the purchase decisions of other people.
They also wrote that after the trial period was long over they were hoping that you would provide them with some kind of âdealâ to replace the mattress which of course you declined (and rightfully so) but by writing about this in their review they cast a negative light on you when you were only following your own written policy that was part of what they agreed to when they purchased the mattress when instead they could have written about the mistake they made and their choice not to pursue an exchange that could have helped other people to avoid making the same mistake as they did.
After you declined they then decided to write a negative review (here and on your site) and in effect they were using ânegative pressureâ (the possibility of a negative review) instead of âpositive pressureâ (receiving something for writing a review) which both involve some kind of âpressureâ to affect an outcome and really arenât much different from each other. If I was âreviewingâ their review I would give it one star out of five because it just isnât balanced or a fair assessment of their experience with your company and puts the responsibility for their choices on you instead of assuming the responsibility for their choices themselves.
Phoenix
I want to begin by commending Christeli for excellent customer service. They did in fact call back with a purchase offer I would have accepted and a call from a manager. Unfortunately they used an old number that was ported when we moved over a year ago to my wifeâs new cell service. She doesnât answer calls she doesnât recognize and she just opened the messages yesterday. My apologies for assuming the worst and for this comedy of errors. I would have been most happy to take advantage of your offer but, unfortunately the train has left the station.
However, I stand by the comments that I have made regarding rewarding reviews and the poor performance of the Daneli mattress. I think it is a bad design. I also believe a review based on long term use is much more accurate than 2 weeks of use and it was not posted "negative pressure. Phoenix, your last comments were very inaccurate and insulting.
Hi kbmw94,
Thanks for updating your comments and itâs good to see that Christeli went âabove and beyondâ in their efforts to help you even though they were under no obligation to do so and even though they werenât able to connect with you.
Your comments here are an example of my previous comments about reviews where consumers often confuse comfort issues with quality issues. While itâs clear that the mattress wasnât a good âmatchâ for you personally ⌠I would doubt that you have the experience or knowledge to assess whether a mattress is a âpoor designâ (outside of for you personally) and there are many other people that are sleeping very well on the same mattress.
My comments arenât meant to be insulting or demeaning and I donât know why it would be an insult to point out that itâs unlikely that you have enough experience about mattress design and theory to be able to assess the overall design of a mattress (outside of knowing that it didnât âworkâ for you personally). They are also for the benefit and education of others that may read this topic to highlight some of the issues that are inherent with reviews themselves and provide an example of the reasons that I pay little attention to them because a mattress that may be unsuitable for one person to sleep on may be a perfect âmatchâ for someone else. A mattress that doesnât âworkâ for one person or a couple certainly doesnât indicate a poor design ⌠only that in spite of âbest effortsâ that you chose a mattress that didnât turn out to be a suitable âmatchâ for you in terms of PPP and this is just part of the risk of an online purchase and is the reason that taking advantage of a good exchange/return policy when necessary can be an important part of the âvalueâ of a mattress purchase.
If a mattress isnât a good match for you in terms of comfort and PPP after the initial break in and adjustment period over the first few weeks then itâs unlikely that it would be a good match after a year either. A year also isnât what I would consider to be long term use that would say anything about the quality or durability of a mattress which would reasonably require 5 years or so at a minimum.
Phoenix