Hi itsrk,
Your questions or concerns have been brought up on the forum on a number of occasions but it’s been a while since I wrote a more detailed reply (such as post #20 here) so I thought I’d take the chance to do so once again for the benefit of others that have the same or similar questions so that there is a more recent post that will show up on forum searches. Just for the sake of reference … most of these comments about durability and the useful life of a mattress would also apply to any mattress with a similar design that used similar materials.
You have brought up several issues not the least of which is the danger of reading too much into online reviews of any type (see post #13 here) where a small minority of people with unusual issues that have very little knowledge or understanding of mattresses, have completely unreasonable expectations, or who have “comfort” issues (which has nothing to do with the quality of a mattress) can appear to be much more common than they really are (unhappy people are much more vocal than the large majority that are happy with their purchase) and can have a very disproportionate effect on the buying choices of other consumers who have little knowledge about mattresses and may not know any better than to rely on reviews to assess the comfort or durability of a mattress. This is the reason that I pay much more attention to the quality of the materials in a mattress than I do to reviews because this will allow you to assess any mattress regardless of who makes it based on the materials and components inside it rather than on the name of the manufacturer. It’s also the reason that I place such a high value on manufacturers or retailers that are completely transparent about the materials in their mattresses (such as Dreamfoam and Brooklyn Bedding) and why knowing the materials in a mattress is so important because you can’t “feel” the quality of the materials in a mattress. There is more about this in this article and in the quality/durability guidelines in post #4 here.
In some cases (and this is something that always upsets me) … some of the reviews are clearly written by competitors that are trying to harm the reputation of a reputable manufacturer because they can’t or won’t compete in more ethical ways based on the quality or value of their own mattresses. Of course they are written to “sound like” a legitimate review but some of these haven’t even purchased the mattress they are “reviewing” (although some have). Unfortunately … this is far more common in the industry than most people are aware of.
That aside though … some of the reviews represent legitimate issues that “real people” have experienced and while their experiences may be a small minority they are certainly “real”. The issue here becomes trying to determine the reason for their experience because in many cases the review doesn’t have enough information to even guess at why they may be experiencing what they are experiencing.
In these cases it’s important to understand the factors that are involved in the durability of a mattress and there is much more information about the many variables that can affect durability and the useful life of a mattress relative to each person in post #4 here and the posts it links to.
As you can see from the previous link … in most cases … the quality and durability of the materials in the top 3" to 6" of a mattress will be the most important factor in the durability and useful life of a mattress relative to a specific person and the support layer of a mattress is generally a much less important durability factor than the comfort layers. In the case of the Ultimate Dreams … it has 1.5" of quilting foam quilted to the cover, followed by 3" of latex, and the base layer underneath is 5.5" of 1.5 lb polyfoam (NOTE: since this post was written they are now using 1.8 lb polyfoam in the base layer). The 1.5" quilting foam is inside the range where it’s thickness won’t have a meaningful effect on the durability of the mattress since it’s quilted to the cover (which compresses it and adds to its durability) and it’s there for the surface feel of the mattress so any softening wouldn’t be a significant issue. Under this is the 3" of blended Talalay latex which is among the most durable foam materials in the industry. This means that there are no weak links in the comfort layers of the mattress and for the large majority of people where the top 4" or so is the biggest factor in the durability of the mattress this would be a very durable mattress because it uses much higher quality materials in the comfort layers than the large majority of mattresses in its budget range (or even budget ranges that are much higher).
For some people though that are in a higher weight range (more than the low 200’s or so) and who compress the foam underneath the comfort layers more than those that are in more average weight ranges then the durability of the support core will play a more important role in the durability and useful life of the mattress. For these people … choosing a mattress with a higher density and more durable base layer or with thicker layers of a more durable material like latex in the comfort layers (such as some of the mattresses sold by their sister company Brooklyn Bedding) would be a good idea although of course it would add to the cost of the mattress. Some of these people may still choose the same mattress for budget reasons so in these cases it would be a good idea to lower their expectations about the useful life of the mattress. In other words … for the large majority of people this would be a very durable mattress compared to almost all mattresses in its budget range and it would be very reasonable to expect that the warranty (10 years) is an accurate reflection of its useful life but for a few people it would make sense to look at the density of the layers that are a little deeper in the mattress because for them a different choice may make more sense.
The next issue that can sometimes confuse people is the difference between virtual sagging and actual visible impressions in a mattress. Virtual sagging comes from a mattress that is either too soft in the first place or that becomes too soft over time (usually because of the use of lower quality and less durable materials in the comfort layers) and the heavier parts of the body sink into the mattress too deeply. Since blended Talalay latex is among the most durable foam materials in the industry it will soften much more slowly than any other type of foam so foam softening or breakdown is rarely an issue with latex unless it is defective or too soft for the body type of the person sleeping on it (softer foam is always less durable than firmer foam regardless of the type of foam). In some cases however a consumer can choose a mattress that is “on the edge” of being too soft for them when it’s new and in these cases even a very small amount of foam softening can put them over the edge of the range of comfort or support that is suitable for them. There is more about this in post #2 here. In these cases the issue is not about the quality or durability of the materials but an issue of the comfort choice they made.
An unsuitable foundation that sags or that has gaps between the slats that are too large to properly support the mattress can also cause sagging in the mattress that is on top of it.
There are also a minority of cases with every mattress material where there are legitimate defects in the material leading to actual foam breakdown or visible impressions. In most cases if the materials in a mattress are actually defective (vs low quality) it will show up early in the life of the mattress. This is especially true in the case of latex where defects in the foam will normally show up within the first year or less and if everything is still fine after a year then the latex will retain its integrity for many years after that. These types of defects are the reason for a warranty (warranties don’t cover comfort issues or the gradual loss of comfort/support that comes from wear and tear or foam softening over time) and are outside the control of a mattress manufacturer since they are a side effect of the foam manufacturing process. I should also mention that with Dreamfoam the depth of visible impressions that are considered to be a defect is 1.5" not the 2" you mentioned (you can see their warranty here). This is common in the industry although there are some manufacturers that use lower quality materials that have warranty exclusions that are more than this (such as the 2" you mentioned). One of the benefits of dealing with a reputable manufacturer such as Dreamfoam or Brooklyn Bedding that is focused on customer service is that they are very responsive to legitimate warranty issues so in the few cases where there is a defect in the mattress they will go out of their way to help their customers with a warranty claim.
This is another comment or question that has been mentioned on the forum on many occasions and for the most part is another example of how a single review on Amazon that shows up highly because of the feedback to the review has had a disproportionate effect on the concerns or decisions of many potential customers. It was written by one of the members of this forum and is very misleading to say the least. While the change happened several years ago (many people think it was much more recent than it was) … you can see my comments about it and the specific Amazon review that is the main reason that people ask the question in post #2 here and the posts it links to that go into much more detail. Outside of the situations or circumstances that I mentioned earlier in this post (higher weight ranges, legitimate defects in a material etc) … it’s not an issue that I would be concerned with. (NOTE: they are also now using 1.8 lb polyfoam in the base layer).
Durability questions such as yours are or course a legitimate issue with every mattress and the specific comments and questions you have brought up about the Ultimate Dreams (or any mattress with a similar design that uses similar materials) have certainly been brought up on the forum on many occasions. Hopefully this reply has clarified some of the issues and variables involved. I hope it’s also clear why I believe that the Ultimate Dreams latex hybrid is among the best quality/value in the industry in its budget range for those people where this mattress would be a suitable choice. This type of quality and value is also one of the reasons why I believe that Dreamfoam competes well with the best in the industry and I think so highly of them and that they were invited to become a member of this site.
Phoenix
