Had my new beds frame go kaput after a few days so I’m looking for a permanent solution .
I’m a big guy and want something really solid.
I came across the Knickerbocker “Embrace” and thought that the glides instead of wheeled casters had to be an improvement.
It’s ridiculously expensive but I’d rather pay once, cry once.
Have any of you owned one of these frames? How solid was the overall construction?
I’d also be happy to hear any other suggestions for rugged, heavy duty frames.
Hi Doug,
I don’t own one but I have talked with the manufacturer and various retailers about them and they are Knickerbocker’s strongest bedframe (even stronger than the Knickerbocker Monster which would work for anyone) but it also carries a very high price that is more about its appearance and aesthetics and would be difficult to justify unless the appearance was important to you.
There is more about steel bedframes including several heavy duty versions that are in much lower price ranges in post #10 here.
Phoenix
I currently have the monster and am likely to upgrade to the embrace when I shortly purchase my next bed.
The embrace has several features that that strongly appeal to me. It is absolutely flat on the top surface, with no exposed screws or bolts.
Some of the monster’s crossbeams and screws are not entirely level with each other. It’s only a difference of a fraction of an inch, but when my box spring is on top, there are spots on the center crossbeam where I can actually wedge the tip of my pinky between the frame and the bottom of my box spring. Additionally, there are two sets of screws in the middle of the head and foot end of the bed that are a pressure point that the box spring lays on. I have an encasement on my box spring, of the type used to protect against dust mites and bed bugs. The pressure of the box spring on these screws is such that the encasement wore through in those spots, creating tiny holes. (And it’s a top of the line encasement.) There are also flat bolts on the side rails, but those don’t create pressure, also they could contribute to snags if you weren’t careful.
I have seen the embrace in person and it would not have these problems. There are no screws, and as I said, it is totally flat because of the way it assembles. It just pops together and then pops apart. The only thing negative about it, aside from its price, is that it can be tricky to get apart. But you won’t be doing that unless you move. And I would say you would need two people to take it apart. When I saw it in the store, the sales rep pulled out one of the cross pieces from one end, it created a bit of torsion on that cross piece, and the connection of the middle leg seemed to flex a bit. The frame is metal, but the legs are not fully. However, this allows the bed to glide more easily for cleaning. On the monster, I actually once snagged my carpet on the locking mechanism for one of the wheels.
If you do get the embrace soon, please report back with comments. And Phoenix or others, if you know of any cheaper frames that assemble in this fashion, where everything is flat and there are no chance of snags or screw/bolt pressure points, I would love to know!
Toddler, I certainly will. I need to locate a nearby retailer and check it out. Thanks so much for your reply (you too Phoenix!)
Hearing terms like “torsion” and “flex” concern me. I understand from an engineering standpoint that both have their place in such things but considering my situation I’m looking for maximum strength and durability. They advertise 2000 lbs, and we certainly don’t need that, but there are lots of frames that make weight claims but then you read reviews where they tear up.
The worst part about so many frames isn’t the angle iron or even the rivets and bolts. It seems that in most the weak link is the post/wheel assembly. I got under my bed this morning to figure out what was going on and two of the caster frames were bent, not just one. I pulled on one and it bent like it was made of a soft, flexible metal like you might find on a panel in metal filing cabinet. I was able to just bend it with one hand.
Why you would have angle iron (or rather steel, to be factual) for rails and then use such a poor metal for the posts is beyond me.
Well, check it out and you will see what I mean. If you watch that video, you will see that the crossbeams go into the legs attached to the sides of the frame. The connection between the leg and the side frame is what flexed a bit. (Although my memory is fuzzy, as it was over a month ago.) I do not think it will be a problem when the weight of a mattress is put on it, or even when it’s assembled just sitting there.
They had all their mattresses on them at my local Macy’s, if that’s a retailer you can visit.
Hi The Toddler,
I spent some time talking with a number of retailers or frame manufacturers about this and none of them considered this to be an issue with their frames (or the ones they sell) or something that they have had any negative feedback or concerns about so your concerns are somewhat outside of their experience.
Having said that … I do understand what you mean and the Embrace wouldn’t have these same issues because of its construction so because of that, its strength, and its appearance, it may be worth considering as an option in spite of its very high price. I don’t know of any others others that would also have a similar perfectly flat load bearing surface with no “protusions” although I also haven’t looked that closely at most of them either so there may be others that I don’t know about.
Phoenix
I bought the Embrace in a queen size and am satisfied with it so far after two weeks.
It actually has two less legs than the Monster (at the center of the head and foot crossbeams), but I think the strengthened steel makes up for that. I can’t see it flexing at all.
Oddly enough, when I placed the crossbeams into the siderails the first time, they weren’t entirely flush (level-wise) with the siderails, but it was just a fraction of an inch off and they’ve settled into place now. It’s not even a big deal, since the wooden parts of my foundation don’t really extend beyond the width of the siderails anyway. The Embrace’s detachable crossbeams end before the flat part of the siderails begin.
Another plus for the Embrace is that there are multiple holes for screwing in the headboard, meaning you can exercise some preference in how high your headboard is.
Hi The Toddler,
Thanks for the feedback on the Embrace bedframe. I think you are the first one on the forum to comment about it and I appreciate it 
Phoenix
We replaced the metal frame that came with the bed with the Embrace frame. It’s terrific and for us well worth the money.
It never moves, slides or makes a noise. It was simple to put together and our mover was so impressed he wrote down the name.
It is definitely “overbuilt” and seems like it will last much longer than any mattress set.
Very satisfied with this purchase.
Several online retailers who sell folding metal Simple Life foundations, such as Brooklyn Bedding and Dreamfoam Bedding, say “The center support needs to run vertically (head to foot) and can not be warrantied if the support runs horizontally (side by side).”
So that would prevent use with the Knickerbocker Embrace, which has a center support that runs side to side, right?
Would this be a concern with any of the wooden knock-down foundations that are much more common to online retailers?
(By the way, the Embrace is still going strong after three years. Very quiet and easy to move. It’s caused a little bit of wear where it makes contact with the foundation encasement, but any other frame would have been much worse.)
Hi The Toddler,
While Leggett and Platt in their warranty for the Simple Life foundation does allow for a frame using a side to side brace with a leg in the center, my guess would be that it has been the experience of some manufacturers and retailers that this foundation works best with a head-to-toe reinforcement beam, which to me does make sense when looking at the design.
With your embrace frame, I would not have a concern. It is supported very well in the center, and most of the knock-down online wood foundation have very strong head-to-toe support built in.
Phoenix
When I opened this frame I was shocked as it’s rigidity. And after putting it together, it went together like a puzzle and locked into place. It is rated to hold 5000 pounds. Yes that’s thousand! I’m a big guy too and you’ll be glad you spent the extra $$ on the “Embrace”
Usually can be found on sale for $299.00
I’ve been looking at this frame and was wondering about the less-expensive Engauge. I’m looking at a 9-inch Cal King mattress made from layers at Mattresses.net and the Zinus 4-inch metal box spring with wood slats. Does anyone have experience with Zinus box spring and the Engauge as support for a large latex mattress?
Hi PspPopeye.
Welcome to our forum
The Embrace is a good heavy duty frame although it comes at a premium price point and each person may wish to run this purchase by their own personal value equation to assess if they wish to pay for the extra cost that comes with a designer frame with molded plastic around the steel beam and tapered legs. There are other strong frames that come at about half price without designer element and even the old 9 legged waterbed frames which hold an enormous amount of weight are quite less than the embrace. Also the 5000 lb. capacity may be a more than any bed requirements and products like Craftlock frames from Mantua, rated conservatively at 1200lb with limited lifetime warranty may be all that is needed without having to pay for the designer element.
To Orangreen.
Engauge is another good quality frame from Knickerbocker, less expensive, with a weight capacity of 2500 lbs, which comes with fiberglass tapered legs designer element. With the Zinus frame, I would make sure to confirm with the Arizona Premium that this or any other support system you are planning to use under the specific mattress you purchase meets their warranty requirements and guidelines.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,
I have a question about the knickerbocker bed frame. I just got an upholstered bed delivered from City Mattress and at first they installed wooden slats as the bed frame but then were told it’s not sturdy enough and they installed the knickerbocker monster bed frame instead. It looks short to me and not long enough, there’s 11 inches missing from the end of the frame to the footboard. I contacted the sales rep who sold me the bed and he said that’s the way it’s supposed to be. I also looked on Amazon at pictures of it and that is how it’s shown as well, with the edge of the bed hanging off. Is this frame going to be supportive enough for a latex mattress and foundation? Or should I ask for a different bed frame before I order my mattress? Thank you!
Hi beth819.
Welcome back to our mattress forum.
The heavy-duty adjustable Monster metal bed frame is a strong steel frame designed to hold a foundation & mattress and to fit all bed sizes like the one you show in the picture. Most metal bed frames would have some mattress/foundation overhang to one degree or another. Assuming that you have a suitable foundation for your latex mattress then the entire sleeping system will rest on the central rail and the two side rails which are longer than the center support.
I don’t have the Monster frame to know the exact length of the frame side rails but if the foundation you place on top of the frame is sturdy, I’d seriously doubt that the mattress is at any risk of tipping. The weight of the sleeping system is cantilevered towards the head of the bed and you would need to put a whole lot of weight right at the edge of the footer to slightly tilt up the mattress set Generally, this depends to some degree on the specifics of the bedframe and the amount of overhang beyond the legs but unless you are in a very heavy weight range it would be very unlikely.
(around 70" length side rails, bed and footboard would work just fine for most people.) In addition to this, when you are lying down most of your weight would be supported by the frame, not by the overhang and footboard.
Let’s say that 10% of the sleeping system is sticking out, that leaves you with 90% weight on the frame if you are to add a 200 lbs weight right the edge of the bed there is still not enough to tip it because of the distance of the fulcrum point and also the footboard stop which further prevents the “tipping” the foundation and mattress. Also depending on how high the mattress is, the bottom of the knees of a person sitting may rest on the footboard which is also taking some more load.
I’d make sure that the foundation you’ll place on top of the steel frame is rigid and strong enough to hold the weight of the latex mattress and the people that sleep on it. For latex you’d need a slatted wood base with solid slats that are no more than 3" apart (or preferably less) check this with the manufacturer so that it does not void your warranty. The foundation and mattress should fit snug into between the bed boards.
Let us know how the new system works out for you
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,
Thanks for the information. I just measured the length of the side rails, it’s a little less than 6ft. The center rail was my next question, is it ok that it’s vertical and not horizontal? The latex mattress and foundation that I’m going to get is most likely going to be from Sleep Ez. If not, then it will be from another manufacturer on your list. Will make a decision shortly. I’m the one that had to throw my Pure Latex Bliss mattress out last year due to bed bugs which was very painful because it was new and expensive. I’ve been looking for a similar ILD configuration so it’s taken some time to make a decision. Anyway, the foundation will be the slatted wooden base. Thanks again.
Hi beth819.
You are very welcome…I remember now…too bad that you had to throw an otherwise very good and perfect mattress because of the bedbugs.
Side rails even with the 6" overhang will work well and provide good support for your foundation. For a larger size mattress, the head to toe center support to the floor is a much better build for a frame for several reasons (For king-size beds, it can accommodate two long twin size box spring) For stability, it is preferable to have at least two legs for king sizes and legs that don’t bend or collapse when you move the bed … your steel frame has 3 center support legs and is well constructed. This Beducation video about bedframes is also well worth watching to get a good sense. Generally, most of the major bedframe manufacturers make steel bedframes that will be fine.
Thank you for considering our Trusted Mattress Manufacturers. 
Yes… SleepEZ foundation has a good center reinforcement with less than the 3" minimum gap between slats I recommend for latex mattresses, so it sounds as if you are in good shape here too.
Good luck with your new sleeping system selection and let us know what you decided or if you have additional questions.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,
Thanks for the information. I bought a DIY bed and foundation from Latex Mattress Factory and set it up last week. I got 3, 3" toppers in soft, medium, and firm. I’ve tried to re-arrange the layers but it is still not comfortable. My old mattress from Pure Latex Bliss was 2" of 19, 1" of 28, and 6" of 36. It wasn’t soft enough so I got a 2" 19 topper and that was perfect. With this mattress I am not sinking in enough when laying on my side and my back (herniated disc) hurts. They sent me a soft replacement layer because the one I got was ripped, and I tried their suggestion of soft/medium/soft/firm, but that was not soft enough. I also tried soft/soft/medium/firm, and while that was softer, it still was not "plush’ and of course made my back hurt as well. Last night I tried the soft/medium/firm combination again (without the extra layer), but I’m still not sinking in enough. When laying on my side, my lower leg/foot doesn’t even touch the latex and neither does my arm. Are there any suggestions as to what I should do? Do I try a different arrangement, try a 1’ or 2’ inch topper, or start all over with something else? Thank you for any help, it is greatly appreciated!
Hi beth819.
Happy to hear that you made your DIY purchase from TMU Expert member Latex Mattress Factory !
I’d be curious to know the type of latex you purchased from LMF for your layers with your DIY mattress purchase, did you choose Talalay latex or Dunlop latex? Your previous Pure Latex Bliss mattress having Talalay latex components may have a more “plush” and “uplifting” feel and would be quite different than that of Dunlop latex, a more “firm” and “supportive” feel. All layers work together and this may account for the difference in comfort and feel you are experiencing. Another variable is also an individual’s BMI/ Body Mass Index, here is a quick guide for determining it here.
I’m not sure of what you’re describing here. Would you clarify with a little more detail the alignment of your lower leg/ foot and arm position/distance to the mattress surface?
Depending on your BMI this could make sense because you are using 5" of soft comfort layers in this configuration from LMF vs the 4" in the PLB configuration (which is most likely why your neutral alignment is off and back is hurting) How loose or tight the layering is encased is another factor in the general feel of your mattress.
LMF recommendation makes good sense. At this stage, one important variable is your own learned alignment and how attached you are to the feel of the old mattress … typically with any new mattress purchase, there will be a period of time where the mattress “breaks-in” a bit, as well as you adjusting and losing some of your own personal “learned alignment”. Within the mattress, the foam, even latex, can soften slightly, but the most adjustment you’d tend to notice will come from the fabric covering your mattress. I would tend to allow for more time to give your body a chance to adapt to the new sleeping surface before making up your mind regarding any potential exchanges or rearrangements of comfort layers.
I’d be interested to know if you have since tested other layer combinations since your last question and if so, how did that go?
Phoenix