Well… After much research and thought, I finally settled on a new bed.
We are getting a 10" Total Latex model from Brooklyn Bedding. I selected the Natural Dunlop core and a Talalay comfort layer. At Mario’s suggestion I selected the level 3 firmness.
I want to thank everyone for their help and I’ll try and come back to update the thread with my thoughts after it arrives.
Thanks!
Hi TimJohnst,
Congratulations on your new mattress 
You certainly made a great quality/value choice and I’m looking forward to your feedback once you’ve received it and had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.
Phoenix
Been on the new mattress for about 2 months now. Overall I’m pleased with the decision. We placed the mattress on a simple platform bed from overstock.com.
https://www.overstock.com/Home-Garden/Solid-Mahogany-Brown-Platform-Bed/8163239/product.html
The slats are a little wide (3 3/4") but the bed is good quality.
My wife and I are both sleeping better. I still wake up with some back pain but it’s shifted to my mid back instead of my lower back. I think this is due to the firmness of the bed and my side sleeping. I’ve been waiting to see how things go as the bed breaks in. I may exchange my side of the latex or I might just put on a 2" memory foam topper.
Anyway… I wanted to post a followup review in case anyone was in a similar situation. Good luck with your search!
Hi TimJohnst,
Thanks for taking the time to share your update … I appreciate it
Phoenix
So it’s been a few months and overall I’m happy with the quality of the bed we purchased but I think it’s a bit too firm for us. My wife is waking up with her arms feeling numb and I’m still experiencing some back pain between my shoulder blades. I’m outside my exchange window so I think I’m going to add a topper to see if that helps. I was thinking a 2 or 3 inch memory foam topper but in speaking with BB they recommended a 24 ILD latex topper.
Any thoughts on this? What I’m really looking for is to add a more cushion without sacrificing support. My current setup is a 6" natural dunlop core with a 3" talalay comfort layer. According to the website my firmness level of 3 means a 36 ILD core and a 32 ILD comfort layer. Do you think adding another 3" 24 ILD layer on top of my setup work?
One option would be to purchase the latex topper and use the 30 day return policy but I’d really like to pick my best option to start with.
Thanks for any insights!
Hi TimJohnst,
Memory foam and latex are very different materials but both can do a good job with pressure relief so the choice between them is really a personal preference (see post #2 here for more about the difference between them).
Memory foam will change some of the “feel” and properties of sleeping on latex (such as ventilation and temperature regulation and the resilience and ease of movement of latex) which is likely why you chose latex in the first place so I would tend to stick with the materials you prefer unless you you are confident that you would prefer sleeping on a memory foam topper.
There is more a about choosing a topper in post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to but when you can’t test a mattress/topper combination in person then a more detailed conversation on the phone with a knowledgeable and experienced manufacturer is usually the most effective approach … particularly if they have a good exchange or return policy so you can use your actual experience to decide on whether your mattress/topper combination are working the way you want them to.
Phoenix
Hi
I just stumbled upon this 12" Posture Plush Cushion-Firm Memory Foam Mattress on the plushbeds website and am wondering how this looks for higher bmi’s?
3" PlushFoam Firm 4.0lb Memory Foam
2" 100% Natural ARPICO Latex
2" High Density 2.5lb Air Flow Layer
5" High Density 2.5lb Supportive Mattress Core
Hi Ari,
If you are looking in the direction of memory foam, ideally 5 lb and higher would be a good idea with a higher BMI. While it isn’t as durable as latex it is a very durable material and can work well for those who prefer the feel and performance of memory foam. But in the uppermost layers of a mattress, and more than just an “inch or so”, I’d be a bit cautious of 3" of 4 lb memory foam. The other materials in that mattress (latex and 2.5 lb polyfoam) are good quality and durable materials.
Phoenix
Thanks Phoenix
so i also found this from sleep warehouse
3" Sensus Natural 5lb Memory Foam or 3" Aerus Natural 4lb Memory Foam or 3" 3.75lb Gel Memory Foam
( i would go with the 3" 5 lb top layer)
2" HD 1.8lb 28 ILD Base Support Layer
2" HD 1.8lb 32 ILD Base Support Layer
3" HD 1.8lb 40 ILD Base Support Layer
10" CoolMax Breathable Mattress Cover
they also say
“SleepWarehouse has base foam layers available in 28, 30, 32, 35 and 40 ILD’s. In addition we have 2.25 and 2.8 density HR/HD upgraded support base foam options available.”
ill call them tomorrow but am not quite sure how high i want the base layers, i know support foam for me should be at least 2.2lbs - would i keep the same ilds? would i want the same base foam layers all the way down or do it as they do it gradually getting the firmest at the bottom?
Hi Ari,
Yes, I would recommend considering at least the 2.2 lb polyfoam offered for higher BMIs. As far as ILDs go, I would consult with them when you phone, as they may have different ILD offerings with the different densities. A progressive ordering, as in the sample you provided, is quite common, and I would use the guidance and suggestion of the manufacturer, as they would have the best grasp of how their materials work together and “match” up to create a comfortable product.
Phoenix
so I’m spinning my wheels and wasting time trying to find a memory foam bed made with higher density quality foams.
it seems that latex is a good way to go but will it offer good pressure point relief like memory foam does?
i spoke to big fig they wouldn’t say if their bed provides pressure point relief. depends on the person. I’m not sure if coils are a great idea anyway for pressure points?
Hi Ari,
Pressure relief is a very complex subject but in its simplest terms it involves spreading body weight over a larger surface area so that the pressure on any particular part of the body is lower than the pressure inside the capillaries so the blood continues to flow. There’s a very detailed and technical discussion of pressure relief in post #2 here.
As it relates to a material though … pressure relief (and the corresponding sensation of softness) is connected to ILD/IFD, compression modulus, and point elasticity (where memory foam and latex excel and which determines how exactly a material can mirror a certain shape) which along with the thickness of each layer (which is independent of the properties of the material itself) controls how large a surface area is bearing weight and the distribution of the weight. Some types of zoning can also even out pressure by allowing more sinking in of some areas which allows the more recessed areas of the body to bear more weight.
In the case of memory foam it can be even more complex because it’s softness is also affected by temperature, humidity, and the length of time it is continuously compressed so how soft it feels can also depend on the temperature sensitivity of the memory foam and can vary with your environment and circumstances or by how quickly a particular memory foam becomes softer with body heat.
Pressure relief also needs to be balanced with support and alignment because you could use a very thick slab of low ILD and support factor foam to do a great job relieving pressure but the heavier parts would sink in so far that the spine and/or joints would be twisted, bent, or flexed outside of their neutral range this would lead to the pain that goes with misalignment of the spine or joints.
As you can see this is all quite complex but again the three specifications of a foam material that control most of the pressure relief (along with layer thickness) are ILD/IFD, compression modulus, and point elasticity (and temperature sensitivity with memory foam) which together with the thickness of the softer layers create the pressure relieving “cradle” and needs to be balanced against its “opposite” which is support and alignment.
So, the two main functions of every mattress are to keep your spine and joints inside the range of their neutral alignment in all your sleeping positions and to relieve pressure by redistributing your weight across the surface of the mattress (what people commonly refer to as “pressure point relief”.
Because your body is much more curvy than flat and some parts of the body weight more than others (such as the hips/pelvis) and some parts are wider than others (such as the shoulders) … good support/alignment means that parts of your body need to be “allowed” to sink in more deeply and that other parts of your body need to be “stopped” from sinking in too deeply so that the end result is neutral alignment of the spine and joints. Post #6 here uses an example of floating in the air and slowly sinking onto the mattress surface to help you visualize this.
If you were to sleep on your side on the floor for example there would be no support under the waist because most of your weight would be on your hips and shoulders and the middle part of your body would sag onto the floor and your spine would be out of alignment.
In the same way … if you were to sleep on a thick layer of soft foam on the floor then you would certainly sink in far enough to fill in the gaps in the recessed parts of your body but the heavier parts of your body such as your pelvis would sink down too far before they were “stopped” and your pelvis would tilt which also leads to misalignment of the spine. You can see from the diagram here ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: sleeplikeabear.com/files/2689726/uploaded/buyersguide_firmness_guide.jpg
that a mattress that is too soft or a mattress that is too firm can both provide poor support under different parts of the body. There is more about “primary support” (under the heavier parts of the body) and “secondary support” (under the lighter or more recessed parts of the body) and their relationship to pressure relief in post #4 here.
Heavier body types will tend to sink into a mattress more deeply than lighter body types so their concern is that with a softer mattress (with thick/soft comfort layers over the support core) that the heavier parts of his body will sag and sink down too far before being “stopped” by the firmer support core and he will be out of alignment.
People from the “old school” that think “firmer is better” generally tend to choose mattresses that are too firm and they don’t sink in enough to provide good support under the recessed curves of the body or don’t provide good pressure relief (especially for side sleepers).
People that treat mattresses as a “luxury item” rather than a utilitarian purchase that has a very specific function tend to go by “showroom feel” and “subjective comfort” and often tend to choose mattresses that feel great in a showroom but have comfort layers that are too thick and soft or support layers that are too soft to “stop” the heavier parts of the body quickly enough.
Both can lead to uneven support where the spine is out of alignment. The goal is to have comfort layers that are “just enough” and no more in terms of thickness and softness to provide good pressure relief and fill in the gaps in the sleeping profile and support layers that are firm enough to “stop” the heavier parts of the body from sinking down too far.
While all of this might be more information that you desired, it’s a bit of a more detailed way to say that both latex and memory foam can be good options for “pressure point relief”, but it varies by the ILD/IFD of the foam, the combination of materials used in the mattress and their arrangement and thickness, the compression modulus of those foams, the individual sleeping upon the product, their somatotype, their sensitivities and a myriad of other factors. So Big Fig was correct when they told you that pressure point “depends upon the person”, but their overall construction with only one layer of latex in the upper layer would not be as point elastic as a typical memory foam or all-latex mattress or hybrid latex mattress, and it would tend to have a comfort that most individuals would classify as somewhat firm.
Phoenix
I have had too firm and too soft. I don’t want to go back there again , both lead to lower back spasms.
I am worried latex won’t have any contour at all.
I have always had pillowtops till I switched to memory foam, I like that cozy feeling.
Ari - Latex is both very conforming and supportive, I have a strong preference for it compared to memory foam and I’m also a big guy at 6’4" and 270 lbs. One major difference is that latex is much quicker in response and rebounding to its original uncompressed state while most memory foam is much slower to respond. I’d strongly suggest that you try out some latex mattresses if possible to feel the difference for yourself.
Hey, this is exactly the thread I was looking for!
My BMI fluctuates a bit but is basically 40. At that weight, is latex or innerspring simply a better bet than foam?
Also, has anyone in the upper 30s or low 40s had good luck with the Brooklyn Bedding BME? Feature-wize it seems to be pretty much what I want, but I’m not finding much longterm durability info from heavier people.
One more thing I neglected to mention that I find to be a major benefit of latex over memory foam is that it’s much more breathable so it sleeps cooler. Memory foam tends to build up and reflect your body heat so that it sleeps warm, I would often find myself waking up with a sweat when sleeping on it. Manufacturers have used additives like “cooling gel” and graphite to memory foam in an attempt to help it sleep cooler but these are like band aids trying to cover up a basic material property. Latex in contrast is an open cell design which naturally breathes, and I find it sleeps temperature neutral and does not build up or reflect your body heat. Of course this is all based on my experience and YMMV applies.
O_D_O - As another high BMI person in my experience most pocketed coil designs do not hold up over time under such weights. There are some conventional innerspring designs which are engineered for larger individuals (sold under names like Heavy Duty, Medicoil, Extended Life, etc.) which are long lasting but tend to be very firm by nature. What I’ve found to work well is one of those heavy duty innersprings combined with a latex topper, to provide the comfort and body conforming layer of cushioning on top of the solid underlying support of coils. Another good alternative is an all latex mattress, since latex itself tends to be very durable and holds up well. Memory foam on the other hand does generally not hold up very well under higher loads and will become more compressed and lose its support over time. Of course everyone has different needs and preferences so I can’t stress enough how important it is to try different combinations for yourself, or if you can’t to order from a company like many of the members of this forum who have good return policies. Good luck and I hope this helps a bit.
Thanks for the reply! That’s basically what I was figuring from my research.
The more I look at my furniture arrangement, the more I realize I’m probably going to wind up sleeping on the edge of my bed and will need edge support. So probably innerspring mattress with a latex topper is the way to go.
Hi
Likely I’ll try latex next because there is nothing left lol innerspring in the past I had to have pillowtop or memory foam topper on them or they just were not comfortable
Thanks for the ideas!
