Ty, mattress maven, i saw the 7.5lb on ebay. i have talked with fbm and they have been very nice, but they d have 50-50 reviews good and bad and one stated as Phoenix about not getting what ordered. But at 65 plus ship of 35 for a 7.5 lb density with 9 ild its hard to look away. maybe Phoenix can tell me what the specs are to see if it matches when i call them and ask about specs. on ebay reviews everybody loves the 7.5lb density foam it does say its a overrun production yet theyāve sod them for one year , but when i ask the cust. service they donāt mention it although im supposed to talk with Connie or Carlo so i try that tomorrow. i googled the 5lb soft latex dunlap but didnt find anything but i always felt latex was to firm and im not feelin memory with gel because of off gassing and decomposing issues because gel and foam i donāt think mix well.
Hi AnointedMatt,
While I donāt know what the ārealā density is ā¦ they have a long history of misdescribing their products including listing the density of some of their ebay products as a weight per 2 cubic feet rather than 1 cubic feet (which would mean that the ārealā density was 3.75 lbs). You can determine the density of a foam material by calculating the cubic feet in a topper and then dividing the weight of the topper by the cubic feet. It would also be highly unlikely that the ILD of a 7.5 lb density memory foam would be 9 ILD which is typically the ILD for much lower density toppers.
I personally wouldnāt do business with them based on principle alone much less the chance that what you are buying is being misdescribed.
Phoenix
What specific are you talking about when yo say they fbm donāt follow the law in their business something about fire code. when you you measure for weight per sq.ft. for a queen 60x 80 2inch foam i would figure of the to of my head that were talking about 6.5 sq ft so at 7.5 lbs a sq. it should weigh about 50 lbs.
ty, for your help Phoenix
Hi AnointedMatt,
Iām not sure what you mean or what you are referring to with your comments here. I certainly donāt recall mentioning anything about āfollowing the lawā.
Density is calculated as weight per unit of volume so it would use cubic feet (not square feet).
Phoenix
Your post really hits home with me. Iām not a vet - instead, I have an autoimmune arthritis, which has all but disabled me. Iāve also had four spine surgeries in the last three months. Prior to the surgeries, I was in top shape, even though I used crutches.
Sleep is something that I rarely get enough of, due to the pain of sleeping on just about any mattress. Iād finally had enough recently and began to do my research. I sent an email to Derek of the Sleepopolis about a recommendation for a mattress that would meet my needs. He wrote back, asking a lot of important questions, which I responded to - and he came up with a couple of recommendations tailored to my needs. Luckily, one of the recommendations was for a mattress at Nest Bedding - the Alexander - and Nest has a showroom in the Los Angeles area. I went there and tried out the bed. It was very nice for back sleeping, but I mainly sleep on my right side, since my left ribs and shoulder are too painful to sleep on. When I turned over on my right side, I couldnāt believe how comfortable I was. The bed molded to me, but didnāt sink in too far (I was on their medium firmness model). In fact, I was so comfortable that I fell asleep!
I ordered the Alexander immediately, along with two of Nestās Easy Breather Natural pillows, since they were on the top of every review site as perfect and adjustable density pillows. You can unzip the pillow and remove as much of their latex ānoodlesā as necessary to tailor the comfort to the user. All of these items are showing up today - Iām incredibly excited. You should go to Sleepopolis.com and send Derek an email, asking about your needs. All he asks is that you use the links that he provides, if you get one of his recommended mattresses. You get a discount, and he gets the credit with the mattress company.
If I were you, Iād seriously consider the Alexander from Nest. But Iāll report back after Iāve used it at home for a while.
Hi Chapps,
While itās great to hear that you made a good quality/value choice (assuming that you arenāt in a higher than average weight range) ā¦ I would be very cautious about providing this type of very questionable advice to others.
While other peopleās comments or reviews about the knowledge, service, and guidance of a particular business can certainly be helpful ā¦ I would avoid using other peopleās experiences or reviews on a mattress (either positive or negative) or āso calledā review sites in general as a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress or how suitable or how durable a mattress may be for you and in many if not most cases they can be more misleading than helpful because a mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person or even a larger group of people may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on (see post #13 here).
You can also see some comments about these types of sites (such as Sleepopolis) in general in post #1 here in the simplified choice topic (and the video here it also links to) and they are nothing more than revenue sites that in most cases have little to no experience in the industry, have very little knowledge about mattress materials or mattresses in general, and are only in existence to earn the revenue that has become available as a result of the ānew breedā of simplified choice online mattresses that are entering the market.
There isnāt much difference between going into a chain store and buying a mattress based on the ārecommendationā of a salesperson that is just out of high school, knows very little meaningful information about mattress or mattress materials, and is just repeating the āsales and marketing informationā they have learned (most of which is meaningless) for the sake of making their commissions and the many so called āprofessional review sitesā that are little more than an online version of the same thing.
As I mentioned ā¦ Iām certainly glad that you purchased a good quality/value mattress (again assuming that you arenāt in a higher weight range) but I would ask you to avoid providing this type of advice to others that is questionable at best and is also against the rules of the forum as well.
Phoenix
I certainly donāt understand that kind of hostility to the review sites. Sleepopolis is very well known and respected - and Derek does all of the reviews himself. And, frankly, Nest is on your own list of preferred retailers. Iām also providing my own experience in searching for an appropriate mattress, due to my special needs. I really donāt know how else people are supposed to discuss something like this. So remove the comment about Sleepopolis and Derek if you like, but Iām saying that the Alexander bed - their top luxury style - was an amazing feeling for me. My body is badly wounded from multiple spine surgeries, and my joints are in terrible pain - when I see someone else in pain, Iād like to share my recent experience. But letās just leave it at your own preferred list of retailers - Iām glad to see Nest there, as Iāve had a really good experience with them.
Hi Chapps,
Itās not as much about āhostilityā as much as warning others against following unreliable advice (yours and theirs) just like I would warn any of the members here about making other types of poor choices or following other types of unreliable advice as well. If you read the links I posted it will help you understand the reasons for the comments I made :).
They are anything but āwell known and respectedā in the more knowledgeable parts of the industry.
I will leave it up as a caution for others.
As I mentioned I think you made a good quality choice and I think highly of Joe and Nest Bedding who as you mentioned is also one of the members here (and it took several years for them to qualify for membership here because this site has very different and more āobjectiveā criteria for membership that excludes most of the business that request it) but your suggestions about āhowā to choose a suitable mattress are certainly questionable.
Phoenix
This what you said on Nov11,2011 post#2 I believe they are operating illegally by skirting the fire regulations and I seriously doubt that they have prototyped the mattresses they are selling. While they (and others) try to skirt the regulations by claiming they are only selling parts of a mattress ā¦ the way they are doing this (by āde factoā selling mattresses) is also against the law.
yes i meant to say cubic feet but is that about right on weight 50lbs for a queen 7.5 lb dens or what is the formula to calculate.
Hi AnointedMatt,
Thanks for the clarification.
Just to put your quote in a larger context ā¦the whole quote is this ā¦
The comment was about their mattresses (as opposed to the toppers or components they sell) and if the mattresses they sell havenāt passed the 16 CFR 1632 and 1633 fire regulations then it would be illegal to sell them or promote them āas a mattressā (as opposed to individual components). Every mattress should have a law tag that will tell you whether the mattress has passed the fire regulations and if you buy a mattress without a law tag it would be illegal.
Phoenix
yes that does give me a concern if they donāt follow the law, on the fire code. ty, for clarifying. Im assuming toppers arent as regulated and dont need a tag.
is there a formula to know how much a topper should weigh?
ty, Chapps for your input and experience with Nest and Alexander. I too can only sleep on right side i weigh 225lb 6ft tall. ( need to lose 25lbs) my issues is tendititus on l/shld. I did feel Phoienix was harsh with you , although his reason was that sleepopolis.com is in sorts a saleperson for certain bed cos. and buyer beware. i did look at the nest alexander med firmness and i will look to find local store. I researched a bit for reviews and they look to be mostly good but not all( as far as feel) my thinking is that they use 1.5ā³ super soft foam in the cover( why they donāt clarify i have no idea) , 2ā³ visco foam (4 pound), 2ā³ gel foam (4 pound), 8ā³ support foam.
Im looking at the Christeli which tells you exactly whatās in everything and they use 6lb density 2" foam with cashmier tuffting cover and 5lb 4" density w/ memory foam core or latex if you need more support. a bit more than your bed price wise King size for Charleston is 1599 w/mem. core or Lux is 2395 which has latex core for bigger people according rep. They did have some clearance or floor models on sale last week and they were 20% off abouts. Mike the rep said he would look and see if i can somethin next week after stating my budget. It feels like you holds his ground on getting top dollar but after 2 weeks and 3 times talking to him I think he feels im not going to buy unless i get the lower price. I have only seen great reviews except for a few delivery issues with BBB.
i hope the alexander works for you im not a fan of the gel infused and i know the i comfort felt great in store but had bad reviews after months of use as did tempurpedic and the sleep number. for such a large purchase its wise to be patient and research. ty again and i wish you well.
Matt, youāre close to my height and weight. Iām 6ā2", 215 lbs (lost a ton of muscle and gained fat during all my surgeries this year), so I had to find a mattress that would easily support me. Something like the Leesa mattress would have been awful for me - that and others like it seem to be better for smaller folks.
The info on the Alexander mattress is there on the product detail page, but itās just diffused out in a couple of paragraphs. It would be better if they showed a cutaway image with info on each layer. I think they have only three showrooms (?) - L.A., San Francisco and NYC? Itās really difficult to choose correct mattresses if you have medical issues. Some feel great in the showroom, and then wind up being disastrous at home, even after a 60 day break-in period. A friend of mine has the Alexander, and is pretty darned happy with it after a few months (canāt recall how many, exactly). I think all of this is highly subjective. I have other friends who are extremely happy with their $500 mattress after three years. Others need extremely specialized beds for comfort. Regardless, thereās a 101 night return window for the Alexander - if I have any doubts in that time period, I can return it.
Hi AnointedMatt,
Yes ā¦ they donāt need to pass the fire regulations or include a tag that says they have.
If you calculate the volume of the topper (in cubic feet) and then multiply it by the density that itās supposed to be then you would end up with the weight that the topper āshould beā (excluding the weight of any cover).
For example a 2" queen size topper that is 60" x 80" would be 60 x 80 x 2 = 9600 cubic inches which divided by 1728 (the number of cubic inches in a cubit foot) = 5.56 cubic feet. If you multiply the cubic feet by the density of 7.5 lbs/ft3 then that would equal 41.7 lbs which āshould beā the weight of the topper excluding any packaging or the weight of the cover.
I would keep in mind that the better manufacturers and retailers donāt generally ānegotiateā (see post #6 here) or have āfake salesā based on the time of year or holidays (see the guidelines here and post #5 here) and I would treat retailers or manufacturers that negotiate their prices or have āmajor holiday salesā as a red flag because manufacturers or retailers that sell good quality/value mattresses donāt need to negotiate or have āfake salesā to create a false sense of urgency and sell good quality/value mattresses every day of the year at prices that are already very reasonable.
Phoenix
I bought the 7.5 lb density 9 ILD topper 2" from fbm 100 bucks. im concerned about the low ild after reading a blog, but whats done is done.
what is the best pressure relieving density and ILD ONE SHOULD LOOK FOR.
i notice that a lot of beds have high density top layers and than taper down as they get to the base. Is THIS IDEAL AND IF I WAS TO MAKE MY OWN BED WOULD i do this and just put them together?
i currently have a 9" mem. base probably 3lb very soft yet not very pressure relieving i than have 4" 4lb soft and bet better pressure relieving so what would i want to put on it ( im goin to try the 7.5lb i bought w/9 ild) i was thinking to buy a 5lb 4" to put underneath so any help would be appreciated ty , Matt
Hi AnointedMatt,
I would be concerned as well and Iām sorry to hear that you decided to purchase from and support a company that IMO isnāt completely reliable or ethical.
There is no ābestā pressure relieving density that you āshouldā look for because density is more closely related to durability than to pressure relief. Every layer and component in a sleeping system (such as a mattress/topper combination) will also affect the feel and response of every other layer and component in the sleeping system and a topper that may work well for one person on a particular mattress may be completely unsuitable on top of a different mattress or for someone else to sleep on.
There is also no āidealā in terms of quality/density as long as the materials are ādurable enoughā for your body type and your budget range and the materials in your mattress donāt include any lower quality/density materials that would be subject to premature foam softening and breakdown and would be a weak link in the mattress although of course more durable materials (higher density up to a point in the case of polyfoam or memory foam) will last longer than less durable materials. The primary cause of foam softening and virtual or visible impressions are the continuous and ongoing deflection and compression of the materials inside a sleeping system and since softer top layers will be subject to compression and deflection more than the deeper firmer layers they will tend to soften and break down before the others and in most cases the deeper layers will still be fine if the softer top layers need replacing.
ILD is also only one of several specs that makes a particular layer or topper feel softer or firmer than another (see post #4 here and post #2 here) and the ILD of different materials or in many cases between different versions of the same material arenāt directly comparable to each other anyway (see post #6 here) so using ILD by itself as a reliable indication of how a layer in a mattress will āfeelā for you can be misleading.
The IFD/ILD of memory foam in particular is also very misleading because ILD/IFD testing produces different results for memory foam than it does for other more resilient materials and the ILD/IFD of memory foam also changes with temperature, humidity, and the length of time the memory foam is continuously compressed. The firmness/softness of memory foam will also vary with the specifics of the chemical formulation for the memory foam that affect its temperature sensitivity and its response time not to mention the thickness of the memory foam layer and the type and thickness of the layers underneath it
Unless you have a great deal of knowledge and personal experience with different types of mattress materials and specs and different layering combinations and how they combine together and can translate them into your own āreal lifeā experience that can be unique to you or a small percentage of people overall ā¦ I would tend to avoid using individual specs such as layer thicknesses or ILD numbers or other complex combinations of specifications to try and predict how a mattress will feel or perform for you and focus more on your own actual testing and/or personal experience. When you try and choose a mattress or a topper based on complex combinations of specs that you donāt fully understand then the most common outcome is information overload and āparalysis by analysisā.
The only reliable way to know with any certainty whether any topper will work well for you on your mattress will be based on your own actual sleeping experience.
As I mentioned in my first reply to you in this topic ā¦ there is more information about how to choose a topper in post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to about firmness and thickness which along with a conversation with a reliable supplier (which certainly wouldnāt include FBM) that can provide you with good information about how their toppers compare to each other or to other toppers they are familiar with that are available on the market can help you use your sleeping experience as a reference point and guideline to help you choose the type, thickness, and firmness for a topper that has the least possible risk and the best chance for success. It also includes a link to a list of some of the better online sources for toppers Iām aware of as well and a link to the suppliers that have good exchange/return policies as well.
Phoenix
would love to hear how it works out! you can at least feel at ease that using ebay if items are not as described you can get your money back and usually with little stress. hopefully your leap of faith brings you a more relaxed sleep!
after taking care of some very sick family members over the years i truly believe these kind of purchases can be worth it. fingers crossed that even if itās not exactly described it is close enough and good enough!
Hi mattress maven,
While you are technically correct and Ebay does have a 30 day window that you can return a product if itās not as described ā¦ that may sometimes be difficult because the seller themselves doesnāt have a return policy (so you would have no recourse if the topper doesnāt turn out to be a suitable firmness or thickness even if the density was correct) and they may also put up an āargumentā that the product is āas they describeā in one way or another that could still make a return difficult. A return also wouldnāt cover the cost of return shipping even if the product isnāt as described. With these types of very high risk or ābuyer bewareā purchases ā¦ foresight and realistic expectations is always a much better practice than hindsight.
As you probably know from reading this topic ā¦ I couldnāt disagree with you more strongly.
Phoenix
Phoenix if your going to buy a topper and some mattress you have to take a leap of faith because they donāt have stores to try them out yes some do offer trail periods but not many if any will cover shipping on the return and some you get store credit. So for 100 dollars its worth a try.
Supporting Co. that put fire tags on mattress or follow the law is a concerned i donāt want to support a Co. that is irresponsible but i would think with regulations that they remedied the issue or face heavy fines or revoking of licence. They have 26 complaints on BBB for a large Co. thatās not exuberant the people i have talked there have been very nice patient and as helpful as possible seemed to have a good knowledge of products. the 7.5lb density 2" had 30 all 5 star reviews from what i remember no negative ones. I let you know what happens. Iām thinking of getting a 5lb or 5.3lb density to put under it. Is there much different with the 5.3lb?
Hi AppointedMatt,
There is a big difference between taking a calculated risk or āleap of faithā based on reliable information and supporting a business that has a long history over many years of being unreliable and unethical and āsupportingā and perpetuating their practices with your choices and your money. Logic and reason says that what you think you are buying canāt possibly be correct and āwanting to believeā this type of misinformation when all the evidence says that itās ātoo good to be trueā is one of the most common reasons for buyers remorse. Of course you are always free to make the choices that you believe are ābest for youā regardless of the rationale behind them or the justifications you may use but that certainly doesnāt mean that I wonāt provide a warning to others that are thinking of making the same choices.
Whether you āwant toā or not ā¦ thatās exactly what you are doing.
Most of the people that provide Ebay feedback donāt have any idea what they have purchased or the frame of reference, knowledge or experience to know whether itās good quality or value and the feedback is just their initial impressions. You can get good feedback on Ebay just by getting a product to your customers on time regardless of the quality or value of what you are shipping. Again though ā¦ you are free to believe anything you wish to.
Higher unfilled polymer densities (densities that donāt include any fillers that may be added to the memory foam) are more durable (up to about 6 lb density or so) ā¦ but density has much less to do with the feel, firmness, or the properties that have been chemically formulated into memory foam than it does with durability.
Phoenix