This what you said on Nov11,2011 post#2 I believe they are operating illegally by skirting the fire regulations and I seriously doubt that they have prototyped the mattresses they are selling. While they (and others) try to skirt the regulations by claiming they are only selling parts of a mattress … the way they are doing this (by “de facto” selling mattresses) is also against the law.
yes i meant to say cubic feet but is that about right on weight 50lbs for a queen 7.5 lb dens or what is the formula to calculate.
Just to put your quote in a larger context …the whole quote is this …
The comment was about their mattresses (as opposed to the toppers or components they sell) and if the mattresses they sell haven’t passed the 16 CFR 1632 and 1633 fire regulations then it would be illegal to sell them or promote them “as a mattress” (as opposed to individual components). Every mattress should have a law tag that will tell you whether the mattress has passed the fire regulations and if you buy a mattress without a law tag it would be illegal.
yes that does give me a concern if they don’t follow the law, on the fire code. ty, for clarifying. Im assuming toppers arent as regulated and dont need a tag.
is there a formula to know how much a topper should weigh?
ty, Chapps for your input and experience with Nest and Alexander. I too can only sleep on right side i weigh 225lb 6ft tall. ( need to lose 25lbs) my issues is tendititus on l/shld. I did feel Phoienix was harsh with you , although his reason was that sleepopolis.com is in sorts a saleperson for certain bed cos. and buyer beware. i did look at the nest alexander med firmness and i will look to find local store. I researched a bit for reviews and they look to be mostly good but not all( as far as feel) my thinking is that they use 1.5″ super soft foam in the cover( why they don’t clarify i have no idea) , 2″ visco foam (4 pound), 2″ gel foam (4 pound), 8″ support foam.
Im looking at the Christeli which tells you exactly what’s in everything and they use 6lb density 2" foam with cashmier tuffting cover and 5lb 4" density w/ memory foam core or latex if you need more support. a bit more than your bed price wise King size for Charleston is 1599 w/mem. core or Lux is 2395 which has latex core for bigger people according rep. They did have some clearance or floor models on sale last week and they were 20% off abouts. Mike the rep said he would look and see if i can somethin next week after stating my budget. It feels like you holds his ground on getting top dollar but after 2 weeks and 3 times talking to him I think he feels im not going to buy unless i get the lower price. I have only seen great reviews except for a few delivery issues with BBB.
i hope the alexander works for you im not a fan of the gel infused and i know the i comfort felt great in store but had bad reviews after months of use as did tempurpedic and the sleep number. for such a large purchase its wise to be patient and research. ty again and i wish you well.
Matt, you’re close to my height and weight. I’m 6’2", 215 lbs (lost a ton of muscle and gained fat during all my surgeries this year), so I had to find a mattress that would easily support me. Something like the Leesa mattress would have been awful for me - that and others like it seem to be better for smaller folks.
The info on the Alexander mattress is there on the product detail page, but it’s just diffused out in a couple of paragraphs. It would be better if they showed a cutaway image with info on each layer. I think they have only three showrooms (?) - L.A., San Francisco and NYC? It’s really difficult to choose correct mattresses if you have medical issues. Some feel great in the showroom, and then wind up being disastrous at home, even after a 60 day break-in period. A friend of mine has the Alexander, and is pretty darned happy with it after a few months (can’t recall how many, exactly). I think all of this is highly subjective. I have other friends who are extremely happy with their $500 mattress after three years. Others need extremely specialized beds for comfort. Regardless, there’s a 101 night return window for the Alexander - if I have any doubts in that time period, I can return it.
Yes … they don’t need to pass the fire regulations or include a tag that says they have.
If you calculate the volume of the topper (in cubic feet) and then multiply it by the density that it’s supposed to be then you would end up with the weight that the topper “should be” (excluding the weight of any cover).
For example a 2" queen size topper that is 60" x 80" would be 60 x 80 x 2 = 9600 cubic inches which divided by 1728 (the number of cubic inches in a cubit foot) = 5.56 cubic feet. If you multiply the cubic feet by the density of 7.5 lbs/ft3 then that would equal 41.7 lbs which “should be” the weight of the topper excluding any packaging or the weight of the cover.
I would keep in mind that the better manufacturers and retailers don’t generally “negotiate” (see post #6 here) or have “fake sales” based on the time of year or holidays (see the guidelines here and post #5 here) and I would treat retailers or manufacturers that negotiate their prices or have “major holiday sales” as a red flag because manufacturers or retailers that sell good quality/value mattresses don’t need to negotiate or have “fake sales” to create a false sense of urgency and sell good quality/value mattresses every day of the year at prices that are already very reasonable.
I bought the 7.5 lb density 9 ILD topper 2" from fbm 100 bucks. im concerned about the low ild after reading a blog, but whats done is done.
what is the best pressure relieving density and ILD ONE SHOULD LOOK FOR.
i notice that a lot of beds have high density top layers and than taper down as they get to the base. Is THIS IDEAL AND IF I WAS TO MAKE MY OWN BED WOULD i do this and just put them together?
i currently have a 9" mem. base probably 3lb very soft yet not very pressure relieving i than have 4" 4lb soft and bet better pressure relieving so what would i want to put on it ( im goin to try the 7.5lb i bought w/9 ild) i was thinking to buy a 5lb 4" to put underneath so any help would be appreciated ty , Matt
I would be concerned as well and I’m sorry to hear that you decided to purchase from and support a company that IMO isn’t completely reliable or ethical.
There is no “best” pressure relieving density that you “should” look for because density is more closely related to durability than to pressure relief. Every layer and component in a sleeping system (such as a mattress/topper combination) will also affect the feel and response of every other layer and component in the sleeping system and a topper that may work well for one person on a particular mattress may be completely unsuitable on top of a different mattress or for someone else to sleep on.
There is also no “ideal” in terms of quality/density as long as the materials are “durable enough” for your body type and your budget range and the materials in your mattress don’t include any lower quality/density materials that would be subject to premature foam softening and breakdown and would be a weak link in the mattress although of course more durable materials (higher density up to a point in the case of polyfoam or memory foam) will last longer than less durable materials. The primary cause of foam softening and virtual or visible impressions are the continuous and ongoing deflection and compression of the materials inside a sleeping system and since softer top layers will be subject to compression and deflection more than the deeper firmer layers they will tend to soften and break down before the others and in most cases the deeper layers will still be fine if the softer top layers need replacing.
ILD is also only one of several specs that makes a particular layer or topper feel softer or firmer than another (see post #4 here and post #2 here) and the ILD of different materials or in many cases between different versions of the same material aren’t directly comparable to each other anyway (see post #6 here) so using ILD by itself as a reliable indication of how a layer in a mattress will “feel” for you can be misleading.
The IFD/ILD of memory foam in particular is also very misleading because ILD/IFD testing produces different results for memory foam than it does for other more resilient materials and the ILD/IFD of memory foam also changes with temperature, humidity, and the length of time the memory foam is continuously compressed. The firmness/softness of memory foam will also vary with the specifics of the chemical formulation for the memory foam that affect its temperature sensitivity and its response time not to mention the thickness of the memory foam layer and the type and thickness of the layers underneath it
Unless you have a great deal of knowledge and personal experience with different types of mattress materials and specs and different layering combinations and how they combine together and can translate them into your own “real life” experience that can be unique to you or a small percentage of people overall … I would tend to avoid using individual specs such as layer thicknesses or ILD numbers or other complex combinations of specifications to try and predict how a mattress will feel or perform for you and focus more on your own actual testing and/or personal experience. When you try and choose a mattress or a topper based on complex combinations of specs that you don’t fully understand then the most common outcome is information overload and “paralysis by analysis”.
The only reliable way to know with any certainty whether any topper will work well for you on your mattress will be based on your own actual sleeping experience.
As I mentioned in my first reply to you in this topic … there is more information about how to choose a topper in post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to about firmness and thickness which along with a conversation with a reliable supplier (which certainly wouldn’t include FBM) that can provide you with good information about how their toppers compare to each other or to other toppers they are familiar with that are available on the market can help you use your sleeping experience as a reference point and guideline to help you choose the type, thickness, and firmness for a topper that has the least possible risk and the best chance for success. It also includes a link to a list of some of the better online sources for toppers I’m aware of as well and a link to the suppliers that have good exchange/return policies as well.
would love to hear how it works out! you can at least feel at ease that using ebay if items are not as described you can get your money back and usually with little stress. hopefully your leap of faith brings you a more relaxed sleep!
after taking care of some very sick family members over the years i truly believe these kind of purchases can be worth it. fingers crossed that even if it’s not exactly described it is close enough and good enough!
While you are technically correct and Ebay does have a 30 day window that you can return a product if it’s not as described … that may sometimes be difficult because the seller themselves doesn’t have a return policy (so you would have no recourse if the topper doesn’t turn out to be a suitable firmness or thickness even if the density was correct) and they may also put up an “argument” that the product is “as they describe” in one way or another that could still make a return difficult. A return also wouldn’t cover the cost of return shipping even if the product isn’t as described. With these types of very high risk or “buyer beware” purchases … foresight and realistic expectations is always a much better practice than hindsight.
As you probably know from reading this topic … I couldn’t disagree with you more strongly.
Phoenix if your going to buy a topper and some mattress you have to take a leap of faith because they don’t have stores to try them out yes some do offer trail periods but not many if any will cover shipping on the return and some you get store credit. So for 100 dollars its worth a try.
Supporting Co. that put fire tags on mattress or follow the law is a concerned i don’t want to support a Co. that is irresponsible but i would think with regulations that they remedied the issue or face heavy fines or revoking of licence. They have 26 complaints on BBB for a large Co. that’s not exuberant the people i have talked there have been very nice patient and as helpful as possible seemed to have a good knowledge of products. the 7.5lb density 2" had 30 all 5 star reviews from what i remember no negative ones. I let you know what happens. I’m thinking of getting a 5lb or 5.3lb density to put under it. Is there much different with the 5.3lb?
There is a big difference between taking a calculated risk or “leap of faith” based on reliable information and supporting a business that has a long history over many years of being unreliable and unethical and “supporting” and perpetuating their practices with your choices and your money. Logic and reason says that what you think you are buying can’t possibly be correct and “wanting to believe” this type of misinformation when all the evidence says that it’s “too good to be true” is one of the most common reasons for buyers remorse. Of course you are always free to make the choices that you believe are “best for you” regardless of the rationale behind them or the justifications you may use but that certainly doesn’t mean that I won’t provide a warning to others that are thinking of making the same choices.
Whether you “want to” or not … that’s exactly what you are doing.
Most of the people that provide Ebay feedback don’t have any idea what they have purchased or the frame of reference, knowledge or experience to know whether it’s good quality or value and the feedback is just their initial impressions. You can get good feedback on Ebay just by getting a product to your customers on time regardless of the quality or value of what you are shipping. Again though … you are free to believe anything you wish to.
Higher unfilled polymer densities (densities that don’t include any fillers that may be added to the memory foam) are more durable (up to about 6 lb density or so) … but density has much less to do with the feel, firmness, or the properties that have been chemically formulated into memory foam than it does with durability.
the 7.5lb density 2" 9 ild is pretty good a bit squishy or slightly easily compressible but very soft and slow response time. I bought from foambymail off ebay for 100 after ship cost now they have a king same 7.5lb for 125.
I’m sleeping better with it on top of some old sensus 5lb. 3" which is ontop of 4lb 4" and than 3lb. 8". Im considering getting a new 5lb sesnus( $464 ebay) or other 5lb. 4"( $300 fbm) or getting a 5.3lb supercool tooper with cotton cove from Christeli ( $484 cost) and than putting 4" of the 7.5 lb. ant thoughts or opinions.
is there much difference from a 5.3lb and a 5lb density foam? ty , for your feedback,
Matt
In terms of density and “theoretical” durability the difference would be minor and insignificant but they could have different properties in terms of firmness, temperature sensitivity, response time, and “feel” (see post #9 here and post #8 here).
When you can’t test a topper in person before a purchase then the supplier you are dealing with will be the best source of information about how the memory foam toppers they are selling would compare to other types of memory foam that are available on the market that they are familiar with.
my 2 cents on cheap memory foam: from amazon i recently bought two extremely cheap toppers. one was advertised as a 3lb 1" memory foam but it was actually 2.5lb density memory foam. and the other claimed to be 5lb 2" memory foam but was actually 4.7lb density.
i personally can’t tolerate the pushback of latex. and the 2.5lb 1" topper took away the pushback of a day bed without reducing the properties that i love about the 6"’ extra soft layer of dunlop latex underneath it. i tried wool and it didn’t do the trick that this cheap flimsy piece did.
and for the bed the 2" piece actually serves as the most supportive and pain reducing topper we tried (we tried so many - i could write a blog about my experiences, but i’ll just give back to the community here instead). for our purpose it worked out better for my DH and i than any higher quality or lower quality topper in latex, wool or memory foam did. we will probably have to change it once a year but it is so comfortable for both of us compared to anything else, it is worth the having to do a replacement!
in both instances the results were immediate pain free sleep/lounging.
this is what i bought. it claimed to be 5lb memory foam but we did the calculations and it was actually 4.7lb density.
we bought it because it was sold by amazon llc, so returns would be very easy if we didn’t like it. to our surprise we ended up loving it! it was actually recommended by my friend who can only sleep on his side. it is not very durable according to all the reviews, but we thought the comfort was worth the trade off. when it wears out, we might consider a 2" sensus topper from rocky mountain. we got a sample and it was nice. actually it seemed very similar to this piece. we also got 5,3lb sample from foamorder in san francisco and it seemed totally different than these two pieces. i guess because it is a softer ild. i don’t know what the ild is of any of the memory foam toppers i have. when i had a tempurpedic i think people said the ild was 15?
DH means dearest husband. it’s an absurd internet meme from the mid 2000s to talk about your spouse. even men can refer to their wives as DH. it is often used here. and i like that DH is alive and well on a site about mattresses.
the 7.5lb dens 9 ild foam helped but the very soft you can touch index finger with thumb practically when squeezed. it did have a slow response time ( 7 seconds) which is good. I bought another one 2’’ thick but have noticed low back discomfort not sure if its related to lifting the toppers or not getting enough support from low ild’s. i think partly the later( low ild’s). Since foam by mail sold me a decent 7.5lb that they had because the bought it from a business going out of business ( should’ve been my cue) I bought a 5lb 4" $300 foam great price but its not the quality i qas looking fro the response time on it is 2 seconds at best. Seemed to be very airy compared the old sensus 5lb that i have. i should’ve bought the sensus the response time on that is at least 7 seconds and thats a old 5 yr old or more piece. the sensus is also less airy and denser although supposible the same weight. I looked into returning foambymail piece and it would cost me $175 if i can compress it into close to pre open size. Amazon sells teh 4" 5lb sensus fro $475 incl ship. Overstock 5 yrs ago had some for $170 3" but not since. it is pricey but worth it. Christeli had a topper of interest but they no longer sell it.