It looks like we are stuck with an all latex mattress I don’t like much at all. We won’t sleep on it, my 8 yo will, but he is a kid and doesn’t know much about reporting on “sleep discomfort”.
Right now he says it’s fine; but I tried sleeping on it last night and I found out, the hard way (the “800$ spent wrong” way), that “all latex” mattresses are just as heating/stifling as I had heard memory foams are.
I read so much about latex being cooling and breathable, etc. that I never questioned the idea that a whole slab of latex WILL trap heat, no matter how “natural” it is.
It certainly DOES trap heat.
We only have an exchange policy to deal with and no products available that we would want to exchange this mattress for. Or selling on Craigslist for less, but I am afraid it would have to be A LOT LESS than the store price for it to go - even if it’s virtually new.
That being said, what can we do to deal with what we have?
What are the best solutions for those memory foam mattresses that people complain so much about that it heats them up? Because I imagine whatever works for that would work for “all latex” too.
The idea here is to create some kind of barrier between body and mattress that would allow the air to circulate - at least some.
I read a post were the guy was arguing that no matter the type of pad/sheets, etc you put between you and a big slab of foam/latex, heat is still trapped under, so it’s not much good. Yet I read people have found solutions that worked.
Maybe a wool pad topped by an all cotton pad?
It’s only now that I understand why innerspring coil mattresses are still the REAL thing - when made well.
Trouble is most are not anymore - which is what led us to “all latex”, unfortunately so.
Some of your comments and assumptions aren’t correct and there are many variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress. There is much more information about sleeping temperature in post #2 here. If you have an innerspring mattress that uses memory foam comfort layers and a synthetic cover for example then it can also sleep hot for some people that are more sensitive to temperature because the layers that are closest to you will have more effect on sleeping temperature than the deeper support layers of a mattress such as an innerspring.
While latex is the most breathable of all the foam materials … any type of foam is also more insulating than natural fibers and the cover and quilting materials in a mattress, the mattress protector you use (see here), your sheets and bedding, and the bedclothes you wear can all have a significant effect on temperature regulation. Most Talalay latex is also more breathable than most Dunlop latex which is a denser type of latex. Sleeping temperature also depends on where someone is in the “oven to iceberg” range and on the room environment (temperature and humidity) but there will always be some people who have temperature issues when they sleep more directly on any foam material … even latex.
Post #2 here also has more information about some of the things I would check if you are sleeping warm on any mattress with the most emphasis on the layers and components that are closest to your body. In many cases just changing your sheets or mattress protector can be an effective solution that will add to ventilation and moisture transport and make “enough” of a difference for most people. In other cases adding a more breathable layer on top of your mattress (such as a wool mattress pad or topper) can make a significant difference that would be “enough” for most people as well. Your head and face are also a significant part of how your body regulates temperature so your pillow can also play a role in temperature regulation as well.
I know that it can be frustrating when you are one of the exceptions and it’s easy to assume that your own experience would apply to the majority of others as well but each person’s experience and sleeping temperature on a mattress is unique to them and based on many variables (all the parts of a sleeping system, the person, and the sleeping environment). While there are certainly a few that tend to sleep hot on latex or any mattress that most people are fine with … they are not representative of the majority of people (in the same way that a mattress that feels soft or firm to some people can feel completely different to someone else).
We would not consider getting anything with memory foam layers or with synthetic cover anyway.
Must be cotton on top. As for the comfort layers…if they can’t be made exclusively of natural fibers (because it usually involves that special “tufting” manual technique that I understood is very expensive), then we will have to opt for some Talalay latex layer somewhere in there.
It appears that a layer of foam contributes much less to “sleeping hot” than a whole slab of it.
That’s another mistake I made. I did not understand that Dunlop - being denser - will also be hotter than Talalay.
I knew Dunlop is considered less…“premium” than Talalay, but I thought this would only impact firmness level and not temperature itself.
I wish I had been aware of this. In my mind latex of any kind - as long as it was natural - could do no wrong in terms of temperature. I had just read it was the “coolest” and most “breathable” thing to have in your mattress.
This is clearly not entirely true. Maybe it is in relation to other types of foam, but not to all mattress materials, in general. And it also depends on how much of it. Some layer on top of coils?
Maybe. But a whole slab to sleep on? Clearly not.
…being in the South is not helping.
[quote=“Phoenix” post=39915]
In many cases just changing your sheets or mattress protector can be an effective solution that will add to ventilation and moisture transport and make “enough” of a difference for most people. In other cases adding a more breathable layer on top of your mattress (such as a wool mattress pad or topper) can make a significant difference that would be “enough” for most people as well. Your head and face are also a significant part of how your body regulates temperature so your pillow can also play a role in temperature regulation as well. [/quote]
Sheets should be fine - he has an 100% organic cotton from Target and wears 100% cotton pijamas.
So did I when I slept on the mattress last night. So no temp issues from these items.
The mattress protector, as I mentioned in my other thread, is just a temporary solution: a twin quilt, 80% cotton, 20% polyester. This is what was under the sheets when I slept on the mattress last night.
Not the greatest thing - but not enough to have been the MAIN culprit for sleeping hot.
It can’t be replaced by a wool topper fast enough. :lol:
My main frustration is that I did not closely check on IKEA’s return policy.
This was the BIGGEST mistake and 100% my fault.
Understanding how mattress materials and make work can be very tricky - until you actually sleep on different types of beds while being aware of what’s inside, in what order, and how much of each.
But return policy? This was unforgivable.
It turned out IKEA has a return policy for everything EXCEPT their mattresses, where they only have an exchange.
I was absolutely convinced they would have return on mattresses too, just like on everything else - so I didn’t even bother to double check to make 100% sure. That was a bad, bad move.
If I had a return option, I would do it, and would opt for something other than an all-slab foam type mattress.
I would probably go for a hybrid for our son too (coils with some Talalay - not Dunlop! - latex layer).
At least we won’t make this type of mistake with our mattress.
I now know I will have to exclude any kind of one-big-slab mattress, regardless of the type of foam, because this clearly doesn’t work for us.
Thank you again, Phoenix - I did learn an awful lot and I hope other people will also be able to learn something from these small details mentioned here; so I am looking forward to reporting on our own mattress when we make a decision.
It would be so nice to have some options in the area but I am afraid we will have to go online to get what we REALLY want.
Hopefully, the final result will be 100% positive.
One more question, Phoenix - hopefully you are not sick of me by now.
I looked at all wool topper/pads options from the manufacturers you suggested.
They all sound wonderful, but the price is a bit “ouchy”.
It looks like a good wool pad/topper will add significantly to the price of the mattress to be topped - which I feel like I spent too much on already.
Based on those options, I can’t seem to get away with less than 300 $ for a full wool topper/pad.
At 161 $ for a full I would feel the pinch a little less than with the nice ones you recommended.
The question is: would I get quality similar with the ones you recommended or you think this might be an inferior product for whatever reason?
Perhaps their wool is not pre-compressed / pre-treated / pre-something? :S
Any other hidden “inferior” aspects I might not be aware of?
Could it be so simple as to go to e-bay and pick the same thing at half price?
Seems a little suspicious to me.
Thanks a million!
PS: Could the difference in price come strictly from the weight / thickness?
Looks like the e-bay one is thinner than those on your list (only half an inch). I reckon this is what makes it machine washable compared to the others that are thicker.
But would it be thick enough to create that breathable barrier between the body and the hot sleeping Dunlop?
About how thick do you think the wool pad/topper should be to achieve that?
[quote]At 161 $ for a full I would feel the pinch a little less than with the nice ones you recommended.
The question is: would I get quality similar with the ones you recommended or you think this might be an inferior product for whatever reason?[/quote]
I don’t have any personal experience with the Sleep & Beyond wool topper but this is the same company that is listed in the wool topper post I linked earlier and you can see some comments about them there and in post #20 here. There is also some more generic information about comparing wool toppers in posts #3 and #6 here and in post #4 here but with all the many variables involved they are difficult to compare based only on specs or the density of the wool so my “best advice” would be to talk with the manufacturer of a wool product you are considering who will generally be more knowledgeable about their own products and the benefits of using them than anyone else.
[quote]But would it be thick enough to create that breathable barrier between the body and the hot sleeping Dunlop?
About how thick do you think the wool pad/topper should be to achieve that? [/quote]
Unfortunately I don’t know any way to predict the effect of a specific wool topper for any particular person. Wool works to regulate temperature in both directions so it’s used in the desert in thinner layers and in the arctic in thicker layers but where the “tipping point” would be for any particular person is impossible to know outside of personal experience. In general terms though even a fairly thin layer of wool (say 1/2" - 1" or so) and sometimes even a wool protector that is thinner than that would have a noticeable effect on temperature and thicker layers of wool are usually more about changing the “feel” of a mattress than about temperature regulation.
Phoenix
PS: I deleted your post in the other topic because it was a duplicate of your post here.
Thank you, Phoenix.
I really wouldn’t want to spend much above 200 dollars for such a topper but this might be difficult if half an inch is not enough.
I will talk to some of these manufacturers tomorrow.
Syracusa - I have slept on a Dunlop latex bed for several years now, but - my mattresses are not only wrapped in wool inside the encasement, I top them with wool toppers as well.
Latex is rubber, an insulating layer of breathable material is essential to gain air throughout the sleeping surface.
Once upon a time we had a memory foam and it was hot as … well - it was bad, really hot…
For your children, frankly I would add a medicinal felt which can be purchased here http://shepherdsdream.com/ (it’s washable) and then put still another puddle pad underneath that, then top with a sheet and use cotton blankets in the summer. If the latex simply does not work, then I agree wool would be a standout on performance and again I would consider the felted mattress, or layers of same.
Cotton will hold moisture, but it breathes - - thus offering your kids a true reason not to make their beds and let things air out. Even if you only use a cotton blanket as a layer under the sheet, it should improve the breathability.
I don’t think you messed up, but this latex stuff is such a tricky shopping experience - without this website that is, heck it is even with it. Considering that most of the mattresses that are less than a grand have nothing between the core and the surface other than the cover, no wonder the kids are hot. My kids are grown, half my grandkids are grown - but if I needed a bed for a child I would go all wool
Ikea states on their site that their morgongava has a wool layer and the cover is cotton. So when I saw it has some natural fiber layers on top of the latex, I was game.
Problem is whatever wool layer ikea put in there, plus the cotton cover - is simply not enough to gain enough air throughout the sleeping surface. So for us it became obvious that a topper is needed. As for memory foam, I am glad we never had one and I know we will never own anything with memory foam inside. If the latex slab feels hot and stifly to me, I can only imagine the horror memory foam would do.
When we decided on a latex mattress for our son we had the long term in mind - we didn’t get it just as a “child’s bed”, even though he is only 9 now. Besides, I had no idea there are still such things as “all wool” mattresses. Good thing they are still out there in some all-elusive speciality shops, but clearly not something you can find and try in a mainstream store. It would be indeed a good choice for a child. I know they feel great because I grew up on one.
It’s too late to get something like this for him now but we are considering a 1.5 wool topper from “sleep and beyond”.
The medicinal felt looks wonderful but I am afraid it might not offer enough padding. Also, what do you mean by puddle pad?
With the topper we hope to address both the firmness of this mattress and the breathability.
In the interim, just for experimentation purposes, I took my daughter’s cotton comforter (with cotton batting) off her bed and laid it right on top of my son’s latex mattress,and then I added the sheets.
I can already feel some improvement , so I do have hopes for the wool topper.
Now if only I knew how to choose between these two options (both from Sleep and Beyond):
merino organic wool (softer but not washable)
Or
shropshire non-organic (less soft but processed to be washable) .
If is was me I would vote for the courser wool (the Shropshire) because according to most of the woolen mills I have talked with a courser breed makes a more suitable and more resilient material for a topper (vs a comforter) than the finer breeds (see post #6 here). The fact that it can be washed would be an additional benefit.
A 1/2" wool topper or mattress pad and often even thinner can make a significant difference for most people in terms of sleeping temperature but thicker layers of wool would have a different feel and you would “feel” more of the properties and firmness/softness of the wool and less of the latex underneath it. Depending on the firmness of the latex and the specifics of the wool topper this could feel softer or firmer but either way it would feel “different” from latex. Post #1 here which includes some good comments about the effects of a thicker wool topper would also be worth reading.
Thank you for the tip, Phoenix, it is really helping me make the decision.
To make matters more complicated, the lady from blissfulbed who sells the “Sleep and Beyond” wool pads on E-Bay, at the best price I found so far - suggested this product instead as the best solution to a “hot sleeping” latex mattress:
She says it’s really great and that I would be most pleased with this; price would also be better than the wool route…but when I saw “polyester fill”, I backed off right away.
I am quite “bigoted” against synthetics, and polyester in particular, and I am afraid I wouldn’t ultimately achieve the breathable barrier I am looking for by slapping some polyester on top of the latex.
Wool still sounds better to me simply because it is the “tried and true” thing and it is natural fiber.
She confirmed the shropshire, washable wool is rougher.
Now the question is: how rough?
If that means sleeping on “scratchy” and “itchy”, and feeling it even through the sheets, then this is a huge NO.
Or will the wool pad itself need a regular, flat cotton pad on top of it - and ONLY AFTER THAT the sleep-on fitted sheet should be set on top of all this?
That would mean added expense to the wool pad.
Any opinion about the product mentioned above?
Just trying not to add more mistakes to this already spendy bed.
I certainly agree with you and while a polyester fiber topper can be very breathable … airflow is only one of the factors that affects temperature regulation and polyester doesn’t absorb moisture as well as wool and moisture transport and keeping the humidity levels lower close to the skin and maintaining a drier microclimate is a big part of temperature regulation. Unlike polyester … wool can absorb up to 30% or its weight in moisture without feeling damp against the skin and polyester is also a less durable material than wool.
I think a better term would have been “courser” and more resilient. With a cotton casing around the wool along with your sheets and a mattress protector the wool wouldn’t feel “scratchy” since it isn’t against your skin but it would feel a little firmer and more resilient.
Would you say the wool would be better at temperature regulation whereas this polyester batting would do better at providing softness and cushion?
I am sold on the temp regulation qualities of wool but I am not sure how much cushion or softness would add. I expect it might not be any softer or “cloudier” than the dunlop itself, especially as it compresses over time.
Its hard to choose between temp regulation and cushion when this mattress needs BOTH, but I am starting to lean towards a 1/2 inch wool pad plus a cotton cover on top - and then the sheets.
Wool is definitely a better temperature regulator than polyester fibers. I’m not personally familiar with either product so I don’t know which one would feel softer.
I wouldn’t hold out much hope for any wool pad to add the level of softness you are looking for. Wool pads are best for temperature regulation. All wool products compress over time. Before getting the St. Dormeir I had a Natura pad that felt great at first but compressed into a hard mat. Expensive mistake.
I know you are trying to keep further investment costs down but it sounds like you may need to get two products: one for cush and then wool on top for temp.
