Thanks to all of the info in this forum, I have narrowed down the search for our next mattress to a question of latex or memory foam… but every time I think I’ve decided on one or the other, I read something that pushes me in the other direction. I have tried both, and enjoy them each in their own way, but full latex is pushing my current budget more than I like. However, I have read a few places - not the least of which is a post or two from Phoenix here, pushing heavier people towards latex; at least vs cheaper foam… My understanding is that the sub 4lb comfort foams are more likely to have issues with heavier folks.
Given that I’m really only looking at companies that are members of this site, since they have, to some extent, been “vouched for”, I have a reasonable expectation of good quality foam if I go with foam, but there is still a wide variation in the foam used in the comfort levels. There are a number of latex topped foam mattresses available in between the price of full foam and full latex, which I assume would help, if there really is an issue, but I don’t know if there really is.
So, then, the question: for a 280lb 6’ tall side/back sleeper (sleeping with my 115 pound wife, which does add its own fun to the equation, but let’s leave that off for now…), do I need to pay a lot of attention to whether the comfort levels are foam, or just a little? If I choose foam, do I need to decide on a minimum density for the comfort levels in my searches? I do - as much as possible for somebody new at this - understand the interplay between levels; e.g. if we got a bed with two comfort levels, they’d largely serve as one for me, and a comfort + transition level for my wife - but that doesn’t address the question of how quickly my side of the bed would stop being useful as a sleeping place.
So - heavier folks trying to get a bed that will last a while - how clear is the preference for latex over foam? Is there a level at which they’re on equal footing, assuming you enjoy the comfort provided by both? And is there a level at which foam simply should not be considered?
I look forward to hearing from the experts. My own testing and research is that weight doesn’t make a huge difference in comfort between latex and foam. Probably a different story at extreme levels but I don’t think 280 would be near enough to make a significant difference. Latex and Foam feel completely different to me, especially the non-cooling HD foam which I believe is used in the Tempurpedic Contour and the Select Foam HD series. It took me several trips but eventually I was able to notice a big difference between Foam and Latex and even the different types of foam. From a durability standpoint I don’t think their is much argument that Latex is more durable. I also would like to know about how long you can reasonably expect a high quality memory foam to last.
I have not been able to discern a difference in comfort in my in-store testing of various latex and foam beds (i.e. the difference in feel is obvious, but they are both comfortable), but that can be because a: I like the qualities that both latex and foam bring to the table, and b: my in-store testing obviously doesn’t encompass years of use. Since I’m currently sleeping on the sofa instead of the lopsided mattress we currently have, I’m markedly hoping to get a little bit more longevity out of our next purchase, if possible… and I have seen a number of posts along the lines of “if your weight is higher, stick to foams > 4 lbs density”. I’m not entirely sure if that’s for durability reasons or collapsability reasons (i.e. a big person on a low density foam will go right through that layer), or some combination of the two… but I don’t hear anything like the durability part of that about latex, really. (Though I do hear the same layering issues; larger people need firmer layers, etc.)
Price pushes me away from full latex solutions, fears of foam creep push me away from cheap foam solutions… and the high density foam solutions are right back up there in the full latex range!
In any case, it’s good that both my wife and I are currently happy with the way that foam and latex feel, so no matter which way we end up going, we should be satisfied… it’s just a matter of choosing the type that will put as back at the mattress purchase door again the least soon!
All else being equal I would definitely buy an all Talalay latex bed. For me it’s not equal, I have a significant preference for the 5pd foam in the Tempurpedic Contour series. It took me 3 trips to come to that conclusion and I do plan to make 1 more trip to verify that. If you are planning on a latex/foam solution I don’t think you can make any inferences from testing of all latex beds and all foam beds.
While latex foam and memory foam are very different … the choice between them is strictly a personal preference (see post #2 here) … but if you did decide to go in the direction of memory foam and were in a heavier weight range I would lean strongly towards 5 lb or better memory foam unless the tradeoff between durability and “comfort” was worth it to you in a specific mattress.
You can read a little more about a latex hybrid (latex over polyfoam) vs an all latex mattress and some of the issues connected to weight that may be involved in your choice in post #2 here.
Latex, memory foam, and polyfoam are all “foam” materials so it would depend on the type and quality of the foam you were referring to. All foams have better and worse quality versions that are more or less durable (although there is not really any “bad quality” latex). If there is any lower quality/density foam in the mattress (such as the quilting layers) then I would make sure that it is around an inch or so or less. Once the thickness of any questionable materials in the upper layers are in the range of about 2" or so or more then I would want to know the density/quality of the material. There is more about the many factors that are involved in durability and the useful life of a mattress in post #4 here. You can also read a little more about ways to deal with situations where the needs and preferences of a couple may be very different in the first part of post #2 here.
@ccrain,
Latex is as much a “foam” as polyfoam or memory foam. In most cases when people refer to “foam” they are referring to polyfoam which is of course also very different from memory foam. There is also a very wide range in many of the properties of different memory foams that have the same density so Tempurpedic 5 lb (or higher) memory foam may feel and response very differently from another type of 5 lb memory foam even though both of them would be rough equivalents in terms of durability. There is more about the different properties that can be formulated into memory foam in post #9 here and in post #8 here.
Both latex and memory foam can be equally pressure relieving and the upper pressure relieving layers are the biggest part of the subjective “comfort” of a mattress for most people. Both can make good choices for those who prefer either one and if you are comparing good quality latex to good quality memory foam it would really be a matter of personal preference.
The main reason for higher density memory foam with higher weights would be durability. There is also a difference between how “most” 4 lb memory foams and “most” 5 lb memory foams will feel but this is not always the case. Tempurpedics 7 lb memory foam for example is generally considered to be softer than their 5.3 lb memory foam. I would also avoid lower ILD latex with higher weights for durability reasons as well with the possible exception of thin layers (softness and firmness is one of the factors in foam durability as well)
Hope the links here helped all of you (and that I picked up all the questions) with what can be a “difficult” choice for some people (although it’s a much easier choice for others that have a much more clear preference between latex and memory foam).
Thanks for the links, Phoenix, I had missed some of those, though I’m quite certain that I now know far too much about latex and foam… it’s always much easier knowing less about what you’re buying! (if, utlimately, also far less effective…) I have actually started conversations with some of the vendors that are members here, and I look forward to seeing what solutions they suggest. At this point, it certainly looks like there will be some latex involved, though whether it’s all latex or not remains to be seen based on how far I want to stretch my budget.
I’ll definitely stop back in and leave a post about whatever we decide to go with… hopefully soon - for whatever reason, sleeping on this sofa is somehow resulting in various aches and pains that I probably don’t really need!
I completely agree that sleeping on the sofa “sucks”! I know from personal experience on too many nights when I’m answering posts or doing research till late at night (or usually early in the morning) and need to lie down on the sofa to “rest my eyes” for “just a few minutes” only to end up crashing and falling asleep for the night
I’m looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding.
This is the exact same question I currently have with the exact same conundrum. Too much information that just won’t process right or contradicts!
My hubby and I however are both overweight. I want something soft but supportive and he swears as long as it’s not concrete, he’s happy. I am definitely leaning more towards latex at the moment over all foam, but mostly because we sleep hot and the foam topper on the bed now is just too hot. I am worried a bit that my research says latex is firmer than foam. My issue with that is, none of the local mattress stores carry any latex at all. We’ve tried out the memory foam ones and the innerspring foam hybrids, but alas, no latex so I’m hesitant to dive in without trying first. Nearest bigger city is Tallahassee… and that’s just too much of a drive just for mattress testing. I really don’t know where to go up there if we did decide to tackle the two hour trip LOL.
Anyhow, thanks Phoenix! This site and your knowledge has been vastly helpful!!! I’ve got about a month before we’re set to splurge anyways, so I’ve got time to wreck my brain more! :lol:
Given a large enough budget, it certainly appears that anybody who is interested should be able to get an all latex mattress that should suit all body types, comfort desires, and last much longer than the various alternatives. Sleepez’s 13,000 mattress, for example, comes in what, compared to many other mattresses, is a not-that-high $2400, and has 4 different, configurable 3" latex layers, which can even be split differently between each side - it seems almost certain that they should be able to build something that suits anybody. For us larger folks, they just start with firmer bases, but all signs point to them being able to make something that’s “soft” - it’s just that for us, “soft” is done using a firmer layer than it would be for somebody lighter.
$2400 is out of my price range at the moment, so I’m looking at things like Brooklyn Bedding’s Aloe Alexis, which has two latex comfort layers over a foam support core. They also have a number of single latex layer over foam beds, though that gets trickier for me, given my lighter wife - I just “drop right through” a comfort layer that’s good enough for her. It’s possible that with both people being heavy, a single, firmer layer might be enough… but then it gets back into the quantum theory of weight vs sleeping position vs firmness vs layer combinations vs…!
In any case, unless I decide to splurge on the infinite configurability of a sleepez bed, I expect I’ll be spending some money with Brooklyn Bedding today, and I’ll stop back in after it arrives to say how it all works out.
Can you elaborate a little more on the 7lb foam vs 5.3lb foam? I was unaware of the 7lb foam, which beds is that used in? Is it in the top layer? I’m assuming the 7lb foam would be more durable.
Reading through some of the links Phoenix posted, it does seem that the large difference for the higher density foams is in fact durability - he explains in some posts that you can actually have a 7lb foam that feels softer than a 5lb foam. The higher density foams are available in beds from non-Tempurpedic companies; SelectFoam, for example, sells a number of beds that have an 8lb comfort layer over a 5.3lb layer.
I did decide to go with the Aloe Alexis, though, so for me, I’ll be sleeping in a world of ILDs instead of lb densities. I’ll be back in a few weeks to let everybody know how it goes.
If you let me know your city or zip I may be able to point you in the direction of some latex that you can test locally.
With higher weights it becomes more important to choose more durable versions of any foam in a mattress … especially in the comfort layers. With higher weights I would consider memory foam (or gel memory foam) that is 5 lbs or higher … especially in the layers that are closer to the surface. With latex I would consider firmer versions (about 28 ILD or higher or at a minimum 24 ILD) because softer latex will be less durable than firmer latex with higher weights, and with polyfoam I would use 1.8 lb density as a good minimum density.
There are other factors involved in the sleeping temperature of your mattress so it may not only be the “foam” that is the reason for sleeping too hot … although some types of memory foam tend to be warmer than the other two types of foam materials (you can read more about the factors involved in sleeping temperature in post #2 here).
Latex is a foam … along with memory foam and polyfoam (the 3 main types of foam). All foams come in a range of softness and firmness levels so it would never be accurate to say one type of foam is softer of firmer than another because they all have different versions. Having said that … memory foam is all in the “soft” range (which is why it isn’t used as a deep support layer) but how it feels can vary widely with conditions.
Memory foam (and gel memory foam) responds according to pressure, heat, humidity, and the length of time it is compressed and its softness and firmness is variable depending on conditions. Latex and polyfoam respond primarily to pressure alone and aren’t “time dependent”. You can read more about how memory foam responds and the many factors that can change how soft or firm it “feels” in different conditions in post #9 here and post #8 here.
You can also read more about comparing memory foam to latex in post #2 here but it’s always best to use your own personal experience because each person may have very different perceptions or describe the differences between then in very different ways.
Higher densities in memory foam are more durable but any density in memory foam can be made with a wide variety of different properties and types of response (see the earlier links in this post). Density is the most significant factor in the durability of memory foam up to about 6 lbs or so and after this the benefits of increased density are diminished. Higher density beyond this point has more of an effect on the feel, response, and compression of the foam. Tempurpedic uses their 7 lb Tempur - HD memory foam in the top layer of the Rhapsody, Allura, and Grandbed and in the second layer (under the 4 lb memory foam) in the Cloud Luxe.
Congratulations on your new mattress. You certainly made a good choice … especially with the extra layer of latex which is a good idea with higher weights IMO.
I’m looking forward to your feedback when you’ve had the chance to sleep on it for a while.
Thanks Phoenix. I still have more research to do apparently. We are closest to Panama City, Fl, which is an hour away. The next nearest city is Tallahassee which is two hours away one way. Yay for living in the boonies, right? PC only has one mattress store that I am aware off save for places like SAM’S Club, which is where we got our current mattress, and furniture stores that only sell ones out of our price range and are marked up. I will not buy from Sam’s again as our mattress now is horrid. The one store had very helpful sales’s people but was mostly Tempurpedic or “I’d have to take out a second mortgage to purchase” ones.
As for sleeping hot; our current mattress was a cheap Serta pillowtop innerspring that tested great in store, but the first night we used it, it was worse than a rock. “Pillow” is no where near the description I would have used. Granite maybe? I got the topper to somewhat offset that and the fact it started sagging right away. And this was when we were a lot lighter LOL. (Eh, we had just got married and our budget was more into buying the flat screen TV instead of a mattress. I still love our TV, but I’d trade it for better sleep any day. We were also anxious to just get the shopping over with and didn’t really shop around at all.) The topper has helped some, but it is hotter than just the mattress and after it softens, I still sleep on the rock that is left. So I’ll just leave that to conjecture. It wasn’t exactly a top of the line topper and was only meant to bridge the in between until we had money to get something better.
Thanks for all your advice and I hope you enjoy your new mattress swidrosest. This time I am least putting way more effort into my choice instead of buy at the first place we go. I also have a bigger budget so that helps a little bit.
I’m still not sure exactly where you are but it sounds like you are either North or East of Tallahassee. The forum lists that are closest would be for Tallahassee, FL here and next would be for Pensacola, FL here.
I did a quick look around Panama City, FL and there are a couple of dozen mattress stores in the area but I would only consider a few of them as possibilities (I’ve included other options as well besides just latex for others that may be in the area) …
http://www.fowhandfurniture.com/ Panama City, FL. Carry Englander (incl a 6" latex over polyfoam) and Golden (incl latex hybrids and gel memory foam) Family owned for 60 years.
Thanks Phoenix, I didn’t even think about Dothan or Crestview. We have to head that way in a few weeks anyhow, so will have to stop and test the Pure Latex Bliss out, although I’m sure it’s out of my price range That’s okay though as I just want to see if I’ll even like latex before I get too serious about my decision. Our budget is $2000 tops, prefer more around $1500 as we will need a new foundation too, and our bed size is Cal. King. I’m hoping i can hit a sale if I like latex.
I really appreciate all your help. Thank you so much.
I wanted to put in my two cents on the latex mattresses. I purchased one of the top line latex mattresses from Serta in 2009 after ruling out pillow tops. ( I didn’t even consider memory foam then). My wife and I selected the latex because of its comfort/firmness and its ability to retain its shape without any sagging and did not purchase it due to allergies, etc. Well fast forward to this summer and a large sag had developed and I feel like I’m sleeping in a bowl. My wife seems to sleep “above” me as I feel so low. We contacted Mattress Firm and were told that in 2009 latex was the hit of the mattress world and the one we purchased was a big factor as to why they don’t carry latex anymore. A technician was sent out to take measurements and he determined that there was indeed a warranty issue with the sagging. Mattress Firm gave us full credit from our original purchase ($2400) and we applied it to a Tempur Pedic Rhapsody Breeze. I absolute love the Grand Bed and the feel was amazing but I couldn’t justify the $3500 difference from what we selected to the Grand Bed. I’m not putting down latex as it was very comfortable but based on our purchase I’m not sure how long it will really last without breaking down. BTW, I’m 5’ 10" and 180lbs and my wife is 5" 4" and 100lbs.
Unfortunately … like so many other consumers … you may have been the victim of some misinformation.
I’m guessing you are talking about the Vera Wang mattresses which were relatively popular at the time and most of which unfortunately had significant amounts of soft lower density polyfoam and synthetic fibers in the comfort layers which of course is the main cause of impressions in a mattress.
The current Sealy Luxury Latex mattresses are very similar and have several inches of polyfoam in the upper layers and the same thing happens with them.
It’s somewhat sad to me that people who believe they are sleeping on a so called “latex mattress” are really sleeping on layers of polyfoam that are much more likely to soften and compress than latex. They also used very soft convoluted latex (and all soft versions of a material are less durable than firmer versions of the same material). With the combination of soft materials and too much lower quality foam and fibers … these are not good examples of a good latex mattress design and it’s not surprising at all that there were (and are) so many problems with them.
This is also the reason that I stress so strongly that consumers always know all the specifics of what is in their mattress … especially in the comfort layers of the mattress. The law tag will tell you the type of materials as a percentage by weight (which can be a good caution to make sure you know the specifics of the design as soon as you see polyurethane foam or synthetic fibers) but it doesn’t include any information about the quality of the layers or where they are located in the mattress and it’s important to make sure that the top layers use durable materials because these are the ones that are most likely to soften and break down.
Your story is still being repeated by many others who believed they purchased a so called "latex mattress. The Dr Breus mattresses are another example where the low end of the line contains about 18% latex (by weight and even less by thickness because latex is heavier) and even the top end is only in the range of 50% latex and yet many people who purchase them are told and believe they have purchased a latex mattress.
You can see a video here of a firmer single layer all latex mattress which was used for well over 40 years and the latex was still in remarkably good condition.
Thanks for the great and informative reply. Fortunately (or unfortunately), I have to keep sleeping on my old mattress until the 30th when the Tempur Pedic arrives. I’m going home tonight and going to get the specific information off the tag as well as the name of the mattress. It was sold to us as a latex mattress but I never thought to second guess the components of the layers within. I’ll post my findings afterwards.
