Yes that was the post, thanks. That air bladder Mattress Remedy looks pretty cool–I may try that. Oh and I just found a post with pics of the homemade board solution.
Hi sdmzark,
The board solution is a similar concept to the ideas in the linked post. I appreciate the reminder though because I’d been meaning to link LEW’s post with pictures to the post about sagging but had forgotten so I’ve now included a link … thank you 
Phoenix
As someone who is really struggling with a sagging mattress right now, it seems like a mattress sag is a lot more complicated than just filling a hole with some material. The hip area is always the worse, but it’s not that the padding has only worn out in that one spot, although it may seem that way at first, once you fill the spot with something, you realize the whole thing is actually bad, in different degrees all over.
I don’t want to rush into buying my next mattress, I’m worried about making another mistake, but my Simmons has become a torture chamber so that I dread going to bed at night. I have a lot of foam of different types around from making seat cushions and the like and it just doesn’t seem like anything helps. The mattress is already on a solid plywood platform but it’s so thick that doesn’t help. 
Hi SleepDeprived,
Part of the problem is that when foam softens or fibers compress and pack down that it can lead to the loss of both comfort and support. Adding some height under an area where there is a sag can help to some degree with alignment issues but it may not help with pressure points because if the foam on top has softened or isn’t thick enough and you are “going through” into firmer layers then the mattress has a reduced ability to relieve pressure. In most cases there isn’t really aren’t any good or long term “fixes” for a mattress that is too soft or is sagging unless you remove the cause of the problem (usually the foam or fiber in the top layers) and replace them with more suitable materials.
Phoenix
A few impressions from today’s trip to Ikea. I seem to be ranking mattresses in terms of subjective firmness. See this post for pictures.
Holmsta (coil + poly + latex) - too soft
Hogla (coil + poly) - comfortable, but it looks like 2" - 3" of poly (including the thick cushion top). The salesperson said this is the mattress that holds its shape the best on the showroom floor; others shift or sag.
Fjordgard (high-res poly + latex) - pretty firm, not bad - would it stay firm enough over time? Cutaway shows that poly has large gaps which must be part of what makes it less firm than Favang. The side looks pretty much intact (picture) compared to the Edsele but it could be a newer floor model.
Edsele (thicker all-latex) - firmer that Fjordgard, but can almost feel that it is one piece of foam. The side looked a little deformed (picture)–is that something to be concerned about?
Favang (all high-res poly) - comparable to Edsele in firmness, 1/3 the price
Elsford (thinner all-latex) - firmest of the bunch
I also dragged a latex topper over and put on the Favang. That was pretty darn comfortable. Softer on top than the Fjordgard which is a similar construction (high-res poly with latex on top). Does it matter that the latex in the topper is 80% natural whereas the latex in the Fjordgard is 80% synthetic?
If I had to decide today, I’d probably go with the Fjordgard.
Fjordgard floor model looks good.
Edsele floor model somewhat disheveled.
Hi sdmark,
I can’t speak to the comfort or support of any of their mattresses because comfort is subjective and how well a mattress matches your needs and preferences in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) will vary based on each person’s body type, sleeping positions, and preferences.
I think my previous comments about the Ikea mattresses cover most of the quality information but just to recap … I would tend to avoid 1.5 lb polyfoam in the comfort layers unless budgetary concerns were more important than durability. The risk of foam softening and the loss of comfort and support would be too high for me (again unless durability was not a particularly important issue).
I would be cautious of pocket coils with a coil count of 484 (queen) and they also don’t mention the gauge of the wire. This is a fairly low coil count for a pocket coil which flexes independently and doesn’t have the benefit of being joined to adjacent springs for greater strength and would have larger gaps in between the coils.
Any latex (synthetic or natural) is a more durable material than polyfoam but latex with a higher natural content would generally be a higher performance and probably more durable material than latex that was mostly synthetic so I would lean towards their latex that was the 85% (natural)/15% (synthetic) blend.
Polyfoam in the 2.2 lb range would also be a durable material.
I don’t know what happened to the Edsele although I can certainly see what you mean about the cover (it looks like it’s compressed by the foot protector) but the 85%/15% latex would be the most durable of all the materials in their mattresses under normal circumstances.
The Sultan Fjordgard uses mostly synthetic latex which wouldn’t be my preference if I was choosing latex … but synthetic latex is also a durable material and it also doesn’t have any obvious weak links in the mattress so it also would be a reasonable choice in terms of quality/durability.
The Favang would also make a good base for a topper and while once again my preference would be towards more natural Dunlop latex … the combination would also make a reasonable choice in terms of durability and the advantage of a mattress / topper combination would be that you could replace just the topper instead of the whole mattress if it softens or breaks down faster than the support layer.
Phoenix
Rats, just lost a long reply. I must have hit Quick Reply again instead of Submit.
Main thing is to say thanks of the thoughtful and insightful post.
Good point on the coils. Had some negative personal experience with individual Simmons coils letting my hips sink more than my shoulders.
Looks like a hybrid high-res poly + latex on top might fit my value equation. Went through the San Diego vendor list again as well as the national member list. I see lots of all-latex offerings for well over $1000 (including this list from one member). So far I only see Dreamfoam as a hybrid vendor. Are there sellers I’m missing?
On the Dreamfoam, I don’t get why their mattress has the 1.5" of “hyper flex” (poly?) on top. Also, one review indicates they now use 1.5lb high density poly for the base foam whereas it used to be 2.35. 1.5 is low for a base, isn’t it?
BTW I tried some 2x12s under the Sealy. Didn’t seem to make much difference. The pillowtop is almost 4" so still sinking through the no-longer-resilient foam.
Mark
Hi sdmark,
Besides Dreamfoam and Brooklyn Bedding which have quite a number of hybrids … Arizona Premium has some listed here and Bay Bed and Mattress also has component pocket coil / latex mattresses.
There are many people who prefer a less resilient quilting layer above latex (which is quite “springy”) so this is a matter of preference. The hyperflex adds a softer surface feel to the mattress.
A post from a couple of days ago also asked about the change in the foam and you can read some comments in the links I included in my reply in post #18 here.
It’s always worth a try and in some cases it can make a difference but it’s certainly not an “ideal” fix and if the top foam has softened too much then it’s usually time for a new mattress.
Phoenix
Phoenix,
Thanks and wow - how many thousand words do you type per day - and starting at 4am? Can’t sleep thinking about mattresses? 
Wish I was in Brooklyn and could try some of their mattresses in person. Kind of surprised that Costco/Sam’s Club don’t offer more in the way of “value” latex hybrid options. I guess they are still mostly focused on quantity and major name brands plus the whole memory foam craze.
Mark
Hi sdmark,
I don’t typically sleep more than about 6 hours a day and my day is rather “fluid”. I usually spend about 10 - 12 hours on the forum and when the posts here are up to date (which is always my first priority) then I get to put on the rest of my hats and start my day which usually involves various types of research, phone calls, or work on the site. My typical day is about 16+ hours
They are actually in Phoenix even though their name says Brooklyn so those who live there are fortunate to have 3 of the members of this site in the area.
Costco and some of the big box stores do occasionally have some better quality latex or latex hybrid mattresses on their sites but it takes some research to find them because if you talk with them they don’t know much about the mattresses they sell. Most of them though are just “more of the same” as you would find in the mainstream stores. Part of the problem is that they don’t always say what’s in their mattresses or in some cases the descriptions can be misleading so it can be difficult to know what you’re really buying.
Phoenix
Interesting…almost worth a trip from San Diego… Also means the online risk is slightly lower if any returns wouldn’t have to be shipped as far.
Hi sdmark,
5 hours or so each way might well be worth a weekend trip or getaway
Phoenix
Next business: Phoenix Mattress Tours by Phoenix.
Went by the local Healthy Back yesterday. Did learn that their latex topper is ILD 15, too soft especially when placed on the concrete floor for demonstration purposes. I liked the $2500 “medium” Bliss mattress, their “most popular model,” but the salesperson didn’t know ILDs on the mattress layers. A follow-up phone call identified this as a Bliss Essence, so based on post #11 here, that’s 1" of ILD 15 plus 2" of ILD 24. If I have that right, it’s good to know that ILD 24 or below might be best for me.
I planned to visit A Bedder Buy locally to look at their latex mattresses. However after learning in post #2 here that the “engineered latex” in a Boyd 910 isn’t latex, I’m not sure it’s worth the trip. (I thought $399 for a queen latex hybrid with foundation was too good to be true.)
From the picture of the “Lavendar Latex Hybrid,” the “pillowtop” quilting looks too thick, and even that is a latex/poly mix.
Nature’s Rest and iComfort are out of my price range.
What about the Boyd 933? Is that top layer real latex?
Hi sdmark,
I would probably want to know more specifics about the Lavender latex hybrid because they don’t list the individual layers in order and whether it was too thick in terms of durability would depend on the specific layers of the mattress and in terms of suitability would depend on your testing for PPP.
You can see the layers of the Boyd 933 here. It has 2" of latex in the top layer.
Phoenix
[quote=“Phoenix” post=24656]I would tend to avoid 1.5 lb polyfoam in the comfort layers unless budgetary concerns were more important than durability. The risk of foam softening and the loss of comfort and support would be too high for me (again unless durability was not a particularly important issue).
…
Polyfoam in the 2.2 lb range would also be a durable material.
…
The Favang would also make a good base for a topper and while once again my preference would be towards more natural Dunlop latex … the combination would also make a reasonable choice in terms of durability and the advantage of a mattress / topper combination would be that you could replace just the topper instead of the whole mattress if it softens or breaks down faster than the support layer.[/quote]
I"m back. Tax refund is here and I’m finally getting ready to buy a topper and/or mattress.
In trying to balance versatility, durability, and budget, I’m narrowing things down to a polyfoam + latex hybrid. I like the option of replacing the comfort layer. Current options (queen pricing):
- Ideal: Brooklyn’s Bamboo Bliss 3" Talalay + 8" 2.17 lb “BB HD Foam” $1200
- Almost affordable: Dreamfoam Ultimate Dreams 3" Talalay + 8" 1.5lb “high density convoluted foam” $899
- Build Your Own: Dreamfoam 3" Talalay topper $354 + Ikea Sultan Favang mattress 5" 2.2lb “high-resilience poly foam” $329 = $683
I’d be especially interested in feedback on the “build your own” option. At 160 lbs, I don’t think I need 8" of core. I guess I could add a soft “quilting” layer, though I already have a fairly thick mattress pad. Can I achieve something that will serve me as well as a Bamboo Bliss (in terms of comfort and durability) but cost $500 less?
Mark
Hi sdmark,
You can read my thoughts about a local purchase vs a component mattress vs a complete DIY construction in post #15 here and the posts it links to. Which one is best for you really depends on which one you believe would be the best match for you in terms of PPP and the options you have available both before and after a purchase in case the choice you make don’t turn out the way you hoped for.
The Brooklyn Bedding Cotton Camilla would be the most closely comparable to the Dreamfoam Ultimate Dreams. There are fewer comfort options but you would have the ability to exchange the comfort layer after a purchase which can lower the risk of an online purchase with the tradeoff of an increased cost vs the Ultimate Dreams.
The Bamboo Bliss is the “next step up” and has more comfort options both before and after a purchase and uses higher quality base foam and a wool quilted cover so the higher cost also gives you less risk and better quality components.
The Sultan Favang is more of an unknown because you can’t test the combination mattress/topper in person and the combination isn’t a proven design because the Favang is designed to be soft enough to provide both comfort and support in the same mattress and may be softer than the support layer in either the Bamboo Bliss or the Ultimate Dreams. This could affect the choice of which topper works best for you in combination with the mattress and you would need to sleep on the combination to assess how well it works for you in terms of PPP. If you buy your topper from Brooklyn Bedding then they have an exchange option that would allow you to exchange the topper for a different firmness for a nominal cost so you would still have some options available after a purchase if your first choice doesn’t work as well as you hoped and isn’t a good match for you in terms of PPP.
I don’t think so no in terms of having the same options or using the same quality of components (base layer, latex top layer, quality of cover, options available before and after a purchase) but your DIY plan might fill the bill if the firmness of the Favang is a suitable base layer for you and you make the “perfect” firmness choice of a topper the first time and don’t need to exchange any layers .
Phoenix
Phonix,
Thank you for another helpful reply. It has occurred to me that mattresses are like colors. There are only 16 basic questions, but 16 million variations! Your patience with the nuances is appreciated.
I will review the DIY post. Briefly, in response to a couple other points:
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Yes maybe I should have included the Camilla, or omitted the Ultimate Dreams. I was mostly trying to compare the Bliss to the Favang since both claim the same foam density. Whether the Favang is softer than the Bliss base, I don’t know, but it doesn’t look like it’s layered (cutaway photo here).
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In the Favang + topper idea: if Dreamfoam doesn’t allow topper exchanges, I’d have to buy somewhere that does. As you say, BB is an option.
Mark
Hi sdmark,
What a great analogy … and you’re very right :).
To carry it one step further … the key is to find the best combination of colors and design that paints your “perfect” picture and then to make sure that the paints and pigments are high quality so they don’t fade or crack or peel off the canvas in only a few months or years (and just like mattresses the quality of the materials is the part that you can’t see or feel).
Yes … it’s a single layer and they use the surface cuts to create a softer top section for the “comfort layer” which would become a transition or support layer (or “section” because it’s all part of the same layer) if you add a topper.
Phoenix
Ah I see what you mean about the surface cuts in the Favang, whereas their hybrid Fjordgard has cuts in the middle but not the surface of the base layer.