Buying a new Matress in Melbourne, Australia

Hi Phoenix,

Hope all is well,

I have conducted some further research on your previous suggestion,

“I would want to know if the ultra plush latex is in the quilting or if the quilting uses a different material”

I contacted the shop assistant, and I am now a little confused again.

I was told that the Quilting sits on top of the ultra plush latex. The quilting apparently is an ultra stretched knitted cotton cover.

The quilting gets its “fluffiness” from the cotton fibre combined with decron?

I spoke to a different shop assistant and her knowledge base seemed a little lower. Do you think any of this makes a difference to the overall quality of the mattress?

Hi John J,

A mattress can be quilted using many different materials or fiber layers. Typically a quilting is made of an outer material and an inner material backing with the quilting layers sandwiched and sewn in between. Different types of quilting materials and different patterns in the quilt result in different feels. In effect it’s a layer of the mattress that’s integrated in the cover itself rather than inside the cover.

Usually quilting is used to give the mattress a softer hand feel (the surface feeling), to add breathability, to help with fire retardancy, and to give the mattress a nicer and more textured or “professional” look. It’s also used to make a mattress with similar construction and layers look different from another mattress and to differentiate one mattress from another.

Typical quilting materals include various types of soft polyfoam, latex, natural fibers such as wool, and various synthetic fibers such as polyester fibers (including Dacron which is a trade name). Polyester fibers are a petrochemical product, and generally have good strength and reasonable resilience. They are also very inexpensive and used as a lower cost alternative for more expensive and higher quality natural fibers either in fabrics or in quilting layers. Synthetic fibers as a whole don’t absorb moisture well and are not as breathable and sleep hotter than natural fibers. Like most quilting layers they will also tend to compress over time (polyester more than many other fibers) which can affect how they feel and the performance of the layers underneath them.

Hope this helps

Phoenix

Once again, thanks for your effort in all these responses,

You mentioned than Dacron (polyester quilting) is of reasonable strength below. Could I still expect reasonable longevity out of a mattress like this? Given that the quilting is a combination of Dacron and Cotton.

It seems like the rest of the support layers and Comfort layers are of good quality based on the research conducted on your wesite and from your feedback but I’m a little concerned that this quilting may be a weak link.

Is it worth me asking them to custom make the quilting 100% cotton, will this make a significant difference in your experience, based on the specs of this mattress?

Thanks again,

Kind regards,

John J

Hi John J,

I would suspect that the stretch knit cotton is the ticking material while the Dacron is the quilting material (the fluffiness).

I would consider the quilting to be within the “maximum” that I think is OK (an inch or less of polyfoam or other synthetic fibers in the upper layers including a quilting layer that will compress over time).

Part of the tradeoff would involve the price of the mattress and how it compared to others which use similar materials except perhaps an unquilted ticking or a quilting that uses wool. Wool is an expensive fiber and will increase the cost of a mattress fairly significantly.

If the mattress provides good pressure relief and alignment, has an overall feel that you like, and is good value compared to other options available … then I wouldn’t exclude it for the quilting material. When there is only an inch or so to compress then the effects wouldn’t be nearly as problematic as a quilting using thicker layers of polyfoam or synthetic fibers. Clustered polyester fibers (rather than “standard” polyester or Dacron fibers) that are made to be “slippery” are also referred to as “down alternative” because they have a very similar feel to down but without the allergy concerns of down. I used this in my mattress quilting (along with quiltable latex) because I liked the “feel” but like other fibers it will compress to a degree over time (which mine has).

I also did a quick google search for “mattress manufacturers Melbourne” and there are quite a few “hits” that came up for all latex mattresses with various options in both the mattress and the quilting ticking. Many of them don’t have prices on their site but a phone call should give you a good idea if the mattress you are looking at has good value. I’ll post a few of them in this thread over the weekend as I have time to take a look at a few of them just in case my search is showing something different from yours.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,

Thanks for all your help its been very valuable, I had one more day of testing latex matresses and decided to purchase the matress above, the storeman sharpened the price even further and threw in a couple of pillows!

I am now after a good matress protector, I have been advised that this one is highly recommended, what are your thoughts?

http://www.protectabed.com.au/media/pdf/PAB_Elite_Matt%20Prot_Bro.pdf

I don’t know much about matress protectors but apparently this has Euculiptus in it which is favourable? is this true, would love to hear your thoughts?

Cheers,

John J

Hi John J,

Tencel is a type of Rayon which means it is made out of dissolved wood fibers (in this case Eucalyptus). It is considered to be an artificial fiber (not natural and not synthetic). Bamboo is another similar fiber that you will often see used in mattress tickings. The materials generally have a nice hand feel and are soft and strong, absorbs moisture, and regulate temperature better than most synthetics.

The advantage of a mattress protector such as this (a waterproof/breathable membrane attached to a fabric) is that it is a good compromise in terms of being waterproof and breathable. It is less breathable (and temperature regulating) than a wool mattress pad/protector but wool is only water resistant (which for most is fine and would protect the mattress well) rather than waterproof. The protect-a-bed is also thinner so will have less effect on the feel of the mattress below it.

So while eucalyptus sounds exotic … it is only one of many different cellulose fibers that are used in “rayon type” materials each with slightly different properties.

Phoenix

Sounds good, thanks for that. Is there any online stores who sell these protectors at a good price who you feel comfortable recomending? (tht hopefully ship to Australia too)

Hi John J,

I would think that mattress protectors of this general style (a polyurethane breathable/waterproof membrane bonded to a fabric) are probably as widely available in Australia as they are in North America. There are many different types and brands but they use a similar design. The differences will be more about the brand and the various fabrics that the membrane is bonded to and in some cases the membrane is in between two layers of fabric (two sided) rather than one.

They are so widely available in so many different places that I don’t keep up to date on prices or better outlets specifically for these types of protectors because of the constantly changing models and prices.

I seriously doubt that buying from America would justify the additional cost of an online purchase of a functionally similar product (regardless of brand) that was shipped from Australia. Standard mattress sizing is also different between Australia and North America.

A google search on “breathable waterproof mattress protector” will likely bring up as many choices for this type of protector as you want.

Phoenix

Thanks again Phoenix,

There does seem to be many places to purchase online.

Regards,

John J

Hi Phoenix,

Thankyou for sorting out the registration :slight_smile:

As you already know I’m in the market for a new mattress and the more I look into them the more complex and
Confusing everything seems.

After a few days of looking around I’ve only found a few that I have liked and they have been quiet expensive and after doing
some research on that particular mattress found
Nothing but bad reviews such as poor quality or bad warranty.

My biggest fear is spending alot of money on a mattress only to have issues down the track with body indentations or sagging ect.

My partner and I are only small roughly 170cm tall and I’m 75kg she’s 55kg, does that lesson the risk of these things happening?

So far we like the pocketed spring mattresses as we are both side
Sleepers and prefer soft plush mattresses. We have tried a few latex mattresses but they were too firm for us.

The most recent we’ve tried being the my side series 6 blue which we loved the feel of but had a big 5k price tag, and after reading on this forum about the poly foam I’ve been put off the idea.

Is there another brand of mattress that roughly matches this style that were after without the cheap materials and a high price tag?

I’ve also been looking for local factory direct dealers and have found the following.

Say they use 100% pure latex and have a 21 year warranty and I know personally someone that has purchased from them and love the bed.

Another place I found claiming a better warranty unlike your major companies and that they use 100% natural NZ Gold Latex
Dunlop Visco elastic foam & Memory Foam
High grade stretch knit quilted cover with Dacron
Thick super supportive soft ect.

If you could please give me some advice I would greatly appreciate your help. I’m located at Brisbane qld. Australia

Thanks Phoenix

Leigh

Hi Aussie,

Welcome from the land down under :slight_smile:

While I’m certainly not nearly as familiar with the different market, measurements (metric), currency, brands, and names that are used there as I am with the North American equivalents, the basic ideas of finding a better quality mattress and better value would be the same in all places.

Some guidelines that would help people in most areas to avoid the traps and pitfalls of mattress shipping are here.

One of the most challenging things in reading reviews is that so many of them are really talking about the wisdom of the choice someone made rather than the quality of the mattress they ended up choosing. Many are written soon after the purchase and say “don’t buy this brand” or “that brand” without even mentioning the specific mattress they purchased, or the materials in the mattress which is what should be reviewed. Even the best quality most expensive mattress can be a poor choice for any individual if the mattress is not designed for their height, weight, body shape, sleeping positions, and preferences. In addition to this, all mattresses are only as good as the material in it and the methods used in it’s construction and without knowing these and the “weak link” that can fail first … knowing the brand label that is attached to it has very little value.

Warranties are also a very misleading indicator of the quality of a mattress and the warranty exclusions will often say more than the warranty itself. Warranties only cover construction defects and don’t cover the wear and tear or softening of a mattress so if a mattress has a 25 year warranty and wears out in 3 years … it is not covered. In addition to this … if a mattress has a stain, isn’t on what the manufacturer considers to be a suitable foundation, or any other “exclusion” is evident … the warranty is also voided. Each warranty has a different “definition” of what normal wear and tear is in terms of a body impression (how deep an impression is considered “normal” with no weight on the mattress) and because most mattresses will soften (or in some cases any fibers used on the surface will compress and become too firm) to the point of being unsuitable for sleeping on long before unweighted impressions that are deeper than the exclusion develop … warranties are mostly useless. Because of this … warranties are more of a sales tool used to justify “stepping someone up” to a mattress that is higher priced. Once again … knowing the specifics of the materials in a mattress is the only real way to know the quality and durability of a mattress in practical terms.

This is also why choosing an outlet that knows about mattress components and materials and helps to “educate” their customers without regard to brand and will tell their customers about the specifics of the materials in their mattresses is usually the most important first step in buying a mattress. Transparency and materials knowledge, and the ability and willingness to fit a mattress to a customer based on Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Preferences rather than encouraging a customer to buy based on vague descriptions or ideas of “comfort” are the way to tell better outlets from worse ones.

A quick read of the overviews in the mattresses section of the site will provide a good level of general information about materials, construction, and fitting a mattress to a person and will help people ask better questions while they are shopping (and help them know who really knows what they are talking about). “Studying” these isn’t nearly as important as just getting a general picture of what is important.

In general … a mattress should be chosen first on it’s ability to provide good sleeping posture and spinal alignment while fully relaxed in all your sleeping positions. Posture is the first key part of healthy sleeping (and healthy sleeping is always the most comfortable in the long term outside of the showroom)

Secondly … a mattress should be chosen on its ability to spread your body weight throughout the mattress surface and relieve pressure to allow for good circulation in all your sleeping positions. Pressure relief is the second key part of healthy sleeping.

Finally … a mattress that provides good Posture and Pressure relief should also include your preferences. These include the sleeping microclimate and temperature control, ease of movement on the mattress and the overall feel of the mattress. These preferences are the final part of healthy sleeping because a mattress that is too hot or that doesn’t allow for your natural movement or position changes or in other ways “annoys” a sleeper will also not allow for the deepest possible healthy sleep.

Buying a mattress from a “salesperson” who sells comfort alone based on the managed and subjective perceptions on a showroom floor is always a warning sign. A mattress salesperson should be selling Posture, Pressure relief, and Preferences (and know how to tell the difference) and then show a customer the materials in the mattress that provides these so that a meaningful comparison can be made with other mattresses based on “value” and on the durability of the materials inside the mattress.

Just to “translate” this into NA terms for those who may be following this (and to give me a reference instead of translating it each time) … 75 kg is 165 lbs and 55 kg is 121 lbs. Weight is one of the “general” factors that can be helpful as a starting point in matching a person to a mattress but by itself it is only a small part of the “specs” that can make a difference. Height, body shape, and weight distribution are also important along with sleeping positions, flexibility, overall health, sensitivity to pressure, various sleeping positions, and environment, overall health, what someone is used to or the “body memory” from a previous mattress, and natural variations in each persons makeup are also important factors. There are so many variables that a person’s “specs” are generally useful as guidelines or starting points only and the experience of actually testing a mattress in “real life” is always the most accurate way to “match” a mattress to a person. This is why testing for PPP (Pressure relief, Posture, and Preferences) is so important and also why when buying online without personal testing that the exchange or return policy of the outlet you buy from is so important.

Pocket springs can be a great choice for a support system but like all materials they will come in a wide variety of choices that can be firmer or softer or more or less aligning for different people. They are also a support system and the materials that are on top of the pocket springs (the comfort layers) have as much to do with the qualities of the mattress as the pocket springs themselves. There are also different types of latex and it comes in a very wide range of firmness/softness levels so there are many types of “latex mattresses” that can be matched to an individual’s needs and preferences. It can be used as a support material in the firmer versions and as a comfort layer in the softer versions. It’s also important to remember that what many outlets call a “latex mattress” really isn’t and will only contain a thin layer of latex mixed in with other materials.

Having said all that … each material or component used in either a support system or comfort layer tends to have a general feel which is a matter of preference and there is no “right or wrong” here. In general … a mattress is always a support system with a comfort layer on top (often with transition layers in between to make the change in firmness between the softer upper layers and the firmer lower layers more gradual) and then covered with a quilting/ticking. Each of these has an effect on the qualities and properties of a mattress and how suitable it may be.

There are many mattresses and layering combinations that would provide similar pressure relief, posture, and preferences to this mattress although there may be many different “pathways” in terms of choices of materials and layering that would provide this. The MySide is unbelievably expensive here as well IMO and Kingsdown who makes it tends to not provide the specifics of the materials that would justify the price and make meaningful comparisons with other mattresses possible (probably because there are no materials that would justify these prices and if they provided this information it would be too obvious that the prices couldn’t be justified). This is a common issue with most larger national brands who like to sell mattresses based on marketing “stories” rather than on the quality of their materials.

Rather than trying to “match” this mattress though … the goal is to think in terms of pressure relief, posture, and preferences regardless of material.

I spent some time looking for some of the better choices in and near Brisbane and in the next post when I’ve had the chance to take a look at them a bit I’ll make some comments about the two you mentioned as well as some of the other that are reasonably close by. It appears that you have some good choices.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,

Thanks for all the useful information so far.

I understand about all the reviews need to be taken with a pinch of salt but the ones that caught my eye were about them sagging badly after only a year. At the end of the day people will write a review if they’re not happy with a product but few will write a review if they are happy with the product. Admittedly when it came to the my side all reviews were good minus one saying it was too soft but that to me sounds like she made the wrong choice (I’m still not going to part with 5k for it).

Regarding the warranties I have heard of a lot of the things you mentioned regarding things such as stains and warranties only covering things like sagging being more than 1.5 inches or more and that’s with no weight on them, so I’ll be sure to at least get a mattress cover.

I have noticed like a lot of salesmen have focused on comfort and barely mentioned posture or pressure points. Also when I asked about the materials in the my side they replied “it’s a blend of all the highest quality materials available”. I think most sales people go on the presumption that people don’t know or don’t care. Which I’m sure a lot people don’t and a lot do just walk in, lay on a bed think its comfy and hand there money, but like u know it’s an investment and we spend a lot time in our beds.

I look forward to reading your thoughts on the websites provided and the other locations you have found.

Leigh

Hi Aussie,

Some comments about the outlets or manufacturers you mentioned and some of my google searches in the Brisbane area. You appear to be leaning in the direction of either a softer version of latex or an innerspring/latex hybrid based on your last post so I’ve focused more on outlets that carry one or both … although in many cases outlets that carry quality latex mattresses also carry other options

[quote]www.latexmattress.com.au/

Say they use 100% pure latex and have a 21 year warranty and I know personally someone that has purchased from them and love the bed.[/quote]

While they don’t provide the layering of their mattresses (only the overall thickness) they do seem to be making some very nice mattresses. They Use Dunlop latex in a density range of 60 (which is softer than you normally see in Dunlop) to 80 which is a good range of choices for layering. They also use what seems to be good quality ticking/quilting materials (bamboo or tencel … both of which are viscose materials) and wool. These would seem to be a good option depending of course on the prices.on the prices.

[quote]www.qualitysleep.com.au/

Another place I found claiming a better warranty unlike your major companies and that they use 100% natural NZ Gold Latex
Dunlop Visco elastic foam & Memory Foam
High grade stretch knit quilted cover with Dacron
Thick super supportive soft ect.[/quote]

They use Latex Gold which is a Dunlop latex foam producer based in NZ by New Zealand Foam Latex. They are owned by Sleepyhead which also owns several other companies and licenses including Dunlop Foams (which confusingly produces polyurethane foam and memory foam not Dunlop Latex).

They make a range of mattresses using innersprings, dunlop latex and polyfoam (made by Dunlop foams so not to be confused with Dunlop latex) and also appear to have good quilting/ticking but their quilting uses mostly synthetic fibers like Dacron instead of wool. They seem to have good value and would make a good reference point for other similar mattresses.

http://www.chiropedicmattressco.com.au/ They are a factory direct manufacturer in Melbourne and make a very nice range of mattresses using innersprings, latex, and memory foam. They also use a wool quilting in several models rather than synthetics. I’m including them here as a reference to compare pricing (which would need a phone call to ask).

http://www.themattressgallery.com.au/ Retail outlet that carries Avante Bedding which seems to be an alternative brand that makes a range of mattresses including latex and latex hybrids that may have “better than average” value. Doesn’t list the secific details of the mattresses though.

http://www.foam.com.au/bedding/puresleep.asp A foam manufacturer that makes a brand called Pure Sleep which seem to include some good quality options and are sold through retail outlets. They have a nice range of mattresses using latex, memory foam, and innersprings and will provide the name of nearby retail outlets on request.

http://www.juvenator.com.au/ Local factory direct manufacturer which makes latex memory foam, and innerspring mattresses. Not details about their individual models but would likely be worth a call to find out what they make and including them in your research.

http://www.makinmattresses.com.au/index.html Local factory direct manufacturer who makes a range of mattresses including some high quality "“all latex” and latex hybrids. They seem to fit the profile of manufacturers who are knowledgeable and transparent and have good value.

http://www.ozmattress.com.au/ Factory direct online manufacturer based in QLD. They make three mattresses that use high quality materials (including pocket coils, memory foam, latex, buckling column gel, and high density foams) and appear to have good value. They have a very interesting website with some very good (and IMO accurate) information. Well worth a phone call.

http://www.factorydirectfurniture.com.au/products.php Factory direct outlet (probably not a manufacturer) who carries a “latex ensemble” but has no details about construction or materials. May be worth a call to get the details.

http://www.bedshed.com.au/gel-solutions.html Retailer/chain store which carries mostly major brands but I’m including them here in case you wish to test two different types of gel layers (neither of which are the more typical gel memory foam). One is buckling column gel used in a couple of their Simmons mattresses and the other is Technogel which is used in two of their mattresses.

Sleepyhead | Beds R Us Retailer/chain store which don’t provide any details of the layering of their latex mattresses. Included only to give a reference example of mattresses that are similar to those made by some of the local manufacturers in this list but at a much higher in price.

http://www.sleepys.com.au/home.html Retailer/chain store. Also carry latex/pocket coil and buckling column gel mattresses which are mixed in with polyfoam. Also included as a reference but the layer details of their mattress would be important to identify any lower quality materials used in the mattress.

Hopefully this will help you in your search. Normally I would first identify the potential better outlets and then spend some time with each of them on the phone asking more specific questions and pricing to get a sense of who they are and what they offer before I chose which ones to visit. In this case though … step 2 and 3 (phone calls and visits) I’ll leave up to you :))

Hope this helps to narrow things down a bit … and feel free to post if you have questions or comments along the way.

Phoenix

This all helps immensely, can’t thank you enough Phoenix. Will definetly recommend this website to anyone in need of a new mattress and needing help.

Thanks again.

It has been an odyssey.I went into a snooze store and purchased three mattresses.Two for the kids and one for myself and my husband.In AUSTRALIA ‘SNOOZE’ advertise that ‘we take the guesswork out of buying a mattress’ and i was quickly introduced to the ‘…best way to select a mattress’…a computer system called ‘sleep to live’[‘my side’],i was not told that this is a proprietary system owned by KINGSDOWN’and that it will only lock you into buying a kings down to the exclusion of all the other brands in the store.I was given the impression by the very slick salesman that the computer would advise what is objectively best for us…irrespective of brand…yes i was naive but i have never bought mattress before and i thought that i was purchasing from a reputable store and would receive expert advice.Well i lay on the mattress hooked up to the computer and the salesman fiddled with the keyboard but my husband was not present and instead of telling me it would not work correctly without him and his vital statistics[he was in hospital]and come back with my husband the salesman interpreted the computers recommendation and i ordered a mattress which cost $5400 australian dollars[$6000us],not including the cost of bedding,BASED ON THAT RECOMMENDATION AND HIS ADVICE.Well,a week later it was delivered and it had a foul smell…pretty quick manufacturing if it was made in australia like the salesman said it was.We complained and they changed the mattress.The second mattress ,from day one was a shocker.they said it would take 6 weeks to get used to whereas they previously said 2 weeks.THEY SAID THE SMELLwhich was not as strong as the first mattress would fade.WELL, now we have,five months later a smelly mattress which has a hump, a slant also and we can’t use it anymore as we both have back,neck and arm pain and did not get one decent nights sleep in all the time we used it.The warranty is useless as snooze kings down and the franchisor maintain that there is no 'major defect’which would warrant a refund but snooze,the franchisor and kingsdown all refuse to tell us what is their definition of a ‘major defect’.Luckily in victoria we have wide product liability laws as well as federal trade practice laws which will eventually get us redress but certainly not for the distress,upset,dissapointmenmt and aggravation caused by these sharpies.

Hi natalie8,

Kingsdown uses the same system here in North America which is also used to “point to” their various models. The biggest issue with these mattresses is that they won’t tell you any information about the materials that are used in the mattress and the only way to know the relative quality and “value” of a mattress is to know the specifics of the materials that are in it.

This is why the first suggestion in the guidelines here is to avoid most major brands and chain stores completely. The subjective and often highly managed environment of a typical chain store showroom can be one of the worst places to buy a mattress and their “marketing” stories and in some cases “pseudo science” may have some truth to them but are mostly just stories used to justify high prices for mattresses that contain a lot of lower quality materials.

I hope you are able to resolve your issues. The “foul smell” is fairly typical of polyfoam and memory foam mattresses and the degree will vary depending on the type of foams in the mattress and on how it was manufactured. It will usually (but not always) go away fairly quickly.

Mattress warranties will usually define “major defect” in their warranty and exclusions and it will depend on the type of mattress and the foam that is used in it. It would typically be anywhere from a .75" to a 2" impression in the foam when there is no weight on the mattress. Because even foams that have softened enough to make a mattress unsuitable for sleeping will still “come back” enough to be under the exclusion … most warranties are used more as a seling tool more than being actual protection against defects. Wear and tear and the so called “normal” softening of foam is not part of a warranty and a warranty has nothing to do with how long a mattress will last in normal use. Only knowing the materials in a mattress can give a reasonable indication of the relative durability of a mattress. There are usually other warranty exclusions as well and hopefully if you press on you will be able to have your mattress exchanged for another one … although it’s unlikely that you will be eligible for a refund and will be limited to either the mattresses sold at SNOOZE or to a Kingsdown replacement.

You can see a Kingsdown warranty which describes what it covers and more importantly what it doesn’t (the exclusions and conditions that will void the warranty) starting on page #7 here.

Good luck in your efforts and I hope you let us know how it goes.

Phoenix

Thank you for your reply.We have referred the matter to consumer affairs department for action.If they don’t give us a full refund we will take them to court.The retailer has offered a replacement which we will not take up as we feel then we are dealing with less than honorable and less then expert shifts.Thanks.Natalie Brott

Hi natalie8,

That’s unfortunate. I hope that consumer affairs can do something for you however I am not hopeful that you will be offered more than an exchange. It would also be great though if they offered a refund as an exception just for the sake of good customer relations even if their policies or legalities didn’t require it.

Good luck!

Phoenix

How about Gold Coast Mattresses Retailer/wholesaler, Selling high quality mattresses in lower price with free delivery in selected areas. They also provide mattresses in different types and sizes with 18 months of warranty. :slight_smile:

Hi Alan B.

There is more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here that can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses.

Unfortunately they don’t provide any information on their site about the quality of the materials in any of their mattresses so I would make sure you can find out the information listed here before purchasing any of them so that you can confirm that there aren’t any lower quality materials or “weak links” in any of their mattresses you are considering.

Without providing this information to their customers it’s not possible for anyone to claim that they are “high quality” mattresses since a mattress is only as good as its construction and the type and quality of the materials and components inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label.

Phoenix