Hi, I can use some advice. First quick back story. Needed a new mattress bought a tempurpedic cloud supreme breeze. Hubby loved it, 5’6’ 165 lbs, stomach sleeper, me on the other hand, 5’4 145 lbs (on a good day) side sleeper, loved the comfort aspect, but had migranes every day because of the out gassing and woke many times throughout the night because of the heat. Swore it was not the same cooling mattress that I laid on in the showroom for 1/2 hour. Returned it after 1 month, now we are limited as far as the exchange so we need something in the same price range 4000.00 We decide on a SB hybrid king. 7" of coils topped with layers of foam, latex, gel. Well I am fine or atleast ok with the softness, still feeling support, no aches and pains. Hubby on the other hand hates that he is sinking in so much, can’t lay on stomach, although he dosen’t complain of pain. This mattess is two months old. Also does not feel like the mattress in the showroom, and we can’t exchange this one, and yes we spent half hour to 45 minutes laying on this one. So last night we flipped the darn thing over, put a regular type mattress pad on it and tried it out. My whole back hurts, hubby says he slept pretty good. Does anyone have a suggestion how to firm up his side of the bed. thanks
I can comment on based on the general statements I’ve heard other, more knowledgable bedding experts say… Which is that it’s easier to soften a mattress that’s too firm then firm up a mattress that’s too soft. They may give some more specific advice, but using that basic statement, it might be easier to leave the mattress flipped over with pillow top on bottom and soften your side, rather than try to firm up his side.
I suppose the other approach would be to rebuild it., and remove the materials bothering him and replace with firmer versions on his side. It is doable, there are several posts in the forum about doing ‘mattress surgery’, but with a brand new mattress that’s a pretty serious choice.
Hi Annmarie,
As dn mentioned there really isn’t an effective way to make soft comfort layers any firmer outside of removing them and replacing them with either thinner layers (that are closer to the firmer support layers of the mattress) or with firmer foam. It’s much easier to make a mattress that is too firm softer because this can be done by adding a topper. There is more about this in post #4 here.
A one sided mattress isn’t designed to sleep on the bottom side of the mattress which would generally be much firmer and designed to to support the mattress on a foundation not to sleep on directly but if you add a suitable topper then it may be a better option than replacing the entire mattress. There is more about choosing a topper in post #8 here.
In general stomach sleepers need a much thinner and firmer comfort layer which is probably why your husband is “OK” with sleeping on the bottom but side sleepers need a thicker softer comfort layer to relieve pressure points on the mattress and for good spinal alignment that can “fill in the gaps” in your more “curvy” side sleeping body profile.
You would need to either compromise on a topper in terms of thickness and softness or you could also use two different twin XL toppers of the same thickness on each side of the mattress (two twin XL’s are the same size as a king size) and use a different firmness level on each side to better accommodate your different needs and preferences. Much firmer latex may be a good choice for him (especially in a thickness that would be more suitable for you) because of his stomach sleeping while softer latex may be a better option for you to accommodate your side sleeping and pressure points. It’s generally a good idea to use the same type of material on each side so there isn’t as big a difference or “transition” in the “feel” and softness level from one side to the other in the middle of your mattress.
It’s not a perfect solution but it may be better than replacing the mattress.
Phoenix
Thanks dn, we’re gonna soften up my side of the flipped over mattress for now. The mattress is ours whether it’s working or not, so doing surgery on it if we have to won’t be a problem. Hubby might find some sort of revenge thing going on by chopping the top off. lol If we go that route, I’ll submit a pic of the thing so maybe someone could tell us a good place to cut. Anyway, thank you…
Thanks Phoenix for the advice. We’ll see how the toppers work on the flipped over side of the mattress. If that dosen’t work out I’ll check back on some instructions for taking the pillow top off. Sure wish I found this site before we started looking for a new mattress. Oh well, thank you again…
Hi Annmarie,
I hope you have the chance to let us know how things work out with a topper.
This thread is an example with some pictures of mattress surgery that is still in progress 
Phoenix
Thank you for the pics on the surgery in progress. I will refer back to it if that’s the road we go, I’ll let you know about how the toppers work out, after 1st night, so far so good. I do wonder if in a few days if sleeping on upside down springs will be a problem. I’m assuming they are shaped like a tube and one side or the other wouldn’t matter. I’ll let you know.
Hi Annmarie,
In most cases they are symmetrical top to bottom although there are many variations and not all coils are a cylinder or the same both ways. I don’t know which mattress you have so I don’t know the specifics but it will likely be fine because you would have some cushioning under the coils from the comfort layers (similar to a two sided mattress). Although this isn’t ideal and the foam under the coils is usually a thinner layer … it sure beats having to replace the mattress if your upside down mattress with a topper matches your needs and preferences in terms of PPP
Phoenix
Ok, bought two 1.5 memory foam toppers. One smooth one for hubby, just for a little cushion and one for me that is like an egg crate on one side. He continues to sleep just fine after four days, me I’m getting up every morning with a back ache, lower or upper or both. Last night did a little more reading on this site and decided to test out different combinations and really try to figure out where the issue is. Even took a 2 in. memory foam topper off sons bed and put it on top of mine, laid down to test things out and ended up falling asleep. Still woke with a back ache anyway. I was just wondering if I bought a 1 or 2 inch latex topper, firm and put it under my memory foam 1.5 inch, if that would be supportive enough. When the bed was the right way, I had no pain at all, so am I correct in thinking that the cushion part is probably ok, it’s the support and alignment part that’s not right.
If you’re waking up with aches, it probably means your alignment isn’t right…
I’d be curious Phoenix’s thoughts on this theory: one thought I’ve had is that the springs may be offering less support. Instead of a firm base under them, there’s now a pillow top since the mattress is upside down. As a result, the springs might be pressing down into the pillow top, making the springs behave quite differently, and potentially less supportively. If that were true, it might be a rather unique reason for alignment issues, since most pillow top mattresses aren’t upside down.
Also, as a reminder upper back pain could be related to your pillow height, which may need to be higher or lower to match the new sleeping surface.
Hi Annmarie,
Your mattress is the part of your sleeping system that will provide the primary support and the comfort layers are more for pressure relief. A mattress that is too thin and/or firm or too soft and/or thick in the comfort layers can both lead to alignment issues and back pain. My guess is you may need more thickness to “fill in the gaps” in your sleeping profile to help maintain the natural alignment of the more recessed parts of your sleeping profile because the bottom of your mattress would have little to no softness at all.
The type of material you use is a preference issue not a “better worse” issue as long as the thickness and firmness is suitable for you. If I was in your shoes I would probably be thinking in the range of a 3" topper in the choice of material that feels best for you.
What is the density of the memory foam toppers you are using and which of the combinations you tried was better than the other (what was the specific difference between them in your experience and “symptoms”)?
I would also make sure that you test any combination you are using for a minimum of a few days (preferably a week or more) so that your experience is more predictive of your longer term experience and not just an anomaly because in effect you are sleeping on a “new” mattress and there may be some adjustment period to get used to a new sleeping surface.
Phoenix
Thanks Dn, I was kind of thinking the same thing yesterday. Woke this am sore again, anyway I’m gonna flip it back over tonight and see how I feel. Yeah I have three different pillows I use.
Thanks Phoenix, I’m gonna flip this monster back over for a few nights just to see how I feel. Then I guess we are either gonna have to do surgery or flip it back over and see if the experiment with a thicker better topper will work on my side. Neither of the packages for the memory foam toppers says what the density is, one does say high density on it. They are just off the shelf at kmart for 50 and 46 dollars each. You mentioned before about the type of mattress it’s an upside down Sleeping Beauty Advantage Ariana, I guess it’s made just for Sleepys.
Hi Annmarie,
Before you do surgery it may be worth using a thicker topper with higher quality materials (higher density memory foam or latex). It’s quite likely that the memory foam toppers you are using are very low quality and don’t have the cushioning ability to shield you from the firmness of the mattress.
Phoenix
Yes and I was thinking about latex, haven’t tried that yet, and also I guess the investment would still be worth it, cause if we do surgery we are gonna need it anyway. I’ll let you know.
Hey dn, I think you may have something there. First night with the bed flipped the right way and I woke up much better than the last week. Hubby, not so much. Anyway looks like we might be cutting the top off this puppy. I was thinking about getting a 3" layer of latex, firm or extra firm for hubby, maybe firm or medium for me. I saw raw pieces for sale at Spindle Mattress for a good price. Two twin xl. They are in Mass. and we are right here in Ct. we can even take a ride up if we had to. This is my theory, please let me know if it won’t work. I was thinking when we take the top off this mattress we would leave whatever padding is directly on the springs themselves, then put the 3" pieces on top of that, and use either the memory foam toppers I bought 1.5 inch. or some part of the topper that is already there. The mattress is supposed to be layers of foam, latex and gel memory foam on top of wrapped coils. Now remember hubby likes a firm sleep surface and me medium to soft. We would still have the tempurpedic if it didn’t give me migranes and left me feeling like I was sleeping in an oven, hubby said he slept too good on that mattress. Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated. One more thought, should I get two pieces of extra firm or firm latex for each of us and work up from there. Thanks
Hi dn,
Soirry … I missed your comment in the thread.
Your theory is certainly valid. Innersprings have very little hysteresis (how much energy a material absorbs) and will pass the compression forces from the top of the spring right down through the bottom without spreading them out or absorbing them as much as foam so the foam layers on the bottom will compress more than they would if there was foam in the support core of the mattress.
This is also the reason why two sided mattresses are more limited in terms of how much foam you can use on each side of the support core because if the comfort layers are too thick and soft then the one on the bottom can compress too much and cause cause alignment issues.
Phoenix
Hi Annmarie,
If I had a mattress and was in a similar situation, there are a few things I might do. Phoenix already posted a link to a mattress surgery in progress, with some instructions there too. URL is here:
https://forum.mattressunderground.com/t/fix-or-replace-worn-out-simmons-mattress
Phoenix also has a great DIY post with various materials, including mattress cases which will be important if you want to put it all into a new mattress case. The URL is here:
https://forum.mattressunderground.com/t/foam-factory-any-good
Overall, if I had decided to do mattress surgery, these are some rough steps I’d follow.
-
Determine how I’d plan close it all back up in the end. Be it buy a new mattress case and put everything into it or somehow try to save the existing mattress case. If you decide to get a new mattress case, i might be inclined not to order it until you get a bit further into the surgery so you know how thick of one you want to get based on measuring the current depths of the springs and estimating extra materials.
-
Open it up in such a way as I could continue using the mattress while in progress, to determine what’s there and thicknesses desired/required.
-
Determine what layers were already there. You might opt to keep your layering the same, or take portions from his side and use on your side. I.e. You might reuse some of the material, especially if the materials are good and have been working for you. Post pictures here for advice and review.
Phoenix is the expert behind this … Mostly the point of the above is to let you and he, and those of us that might comment, see what you’re working with/from without making the bed unsleepable, because this will be a process.
-
Like you said, I’d leave the final layer before the springs the same, and if you relocate everything into a new mattress case I’d probably keep any bottom layers under the springs too.
-
Determine how many and type of layering he and or you will need / want and try these layers. You really should be evaluating the layering for PPP, which is where DIY mattressing can become more expensive and time consuming, because you won’t really know if the layers are right until you try them. Many outlets won’t let you return used layers. You might reuse some of the layers from the existing mattress, especially on your side, since it seemed to be working for you and assuming they’re high quality.
-
Put it all back together and enjoy
As you noted, a standard king means you can easily get twinxl sized pieces and side by side they add up to the same size.
I’d note that latex is (in a manner of speaking) firmer than foam, or at least it has a higher support factor, and I’ve seen a number of people be surprised by its perceived firmness. I can’t easily speculate on the softness/firmness required by you to achieve PPP. If you decided not to reuse any material from the existing mattress and replace both the comfort layer for you and him, I’d probably start with 3" soft for you and firm for him, but that’s totally just a wild guess. I’d recommend you ignore my guess and instead the best people to ask would be Spindle who are most knowledgable about their product. They are a member of TMU I believe, which means Phoenix has assessed them to be among the best in the industry.
However, I’m partly suspecting you could replace his side only and use much of the material you already have for your side, especially if you like how it feels.
Here are two pics of the mattress. My plan was to cut above the top seam and sort of scooping out what we didn’t want. Similar to the way “westcoaster” cut his. I wish he would right back in and let us know how it’s going. Anyway going to give Spindle Mattress a call and get their opinion on the firmness issues as far as the first 3’’ layer goes. I’m not sure if I am loading these correctly or not.
