I popped by Casper’s ‘showroom’ in NoHo, NYC (the showroom is a bedroom set up in the back of their office) to try out the bed. I only tried it for around 10mins, but it really was very comfortable and Michael @ Casper was very helpful. For my personal preference it had a perfect balance between firm and forgiving, and was noticeably supportive of my back (an issue with our current mattress). Also, the visit introduced me to the benefits of a latex layer for heat control, which i’m looking into now. Because of the latex, I think Tuft&Needle is off my list, and the current contenders would be Casper and Dreamfoam Bedding (dreamfoam bedding is cheaper, but at least with the Casper I know I have personally tried and liked the mattress).
Hi Brown,
Thanks for the feedback about Casper … I appreciate it 
You have some good options to choose from and I’m looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding.
Phoenix
I couldn’t help but notice that Casper hasn’t made it into the “The Mattress Underground membership list”. Any reason for that?
Hi basily,
There is no specific reason no and I wouldn’t read any particular meaning into a manufacturer that isn’t a member of the site.
Membership here is more of an organic process that happens as I get to know some manufacturers better (and of course they get to know me as well) and with newer manufacturers it’s less likely that they would be invited to become members until they have a little longer track record and I come to know them a little better.
There is more about site membership in this article and in post #2 here.
Phoenix
This is an interesting thread. Any of you go ahead and pick up the Casper?
I too am trying to decide between the Tuft and Needle - Ten and the Casper.
Any sales input to make Luke?! / tlukesherwin
- ALLEN
Hi Wrench,
The Tuft & Needle uses multiple layers of polyfoam in both the comfort layers and the support core and the Casper uses a combination of two 1.5" layers of 4 lb memory foam and synthetic latex in their comfort layers over a polyfoam support core so it may come down to which type and combination of materials you would prefer to sleep on. There are also many other options available to you that use either latex or memory foam in the comfort layers that are also in lower budget ranges yet which may also be of interest to you depending on the type of materials you tend to prefer.
Some of the lower budget latex and latex hybrid mattresses that may also be worth considering are listed in post #3 and #4 here and there are also other lower budget polyfoam, memory foam, and innerspring mattresses listed in post #4 here.
There is more about the most important parts of the value of a mattress purchase in post #13 here which may also be useful to help you compare which mattress would be best for you but it boils down to how well you are likely to sleep on each mattress, how long you are likely to sleep well, and then the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including of course the price and the importance of any return or exchange options you have after a purchase just in case you need them).
Phoenix
I’ve been looking for a mattress for a second bed. My main bed is a SavvyRest latex mattress, which I like a great deal, but I wanted something cheaper for this bed. After spending a few dozen hours reading this site (and others, but honestly this one was by far the most informative), I ended up ordering a Casper mattress. The combination of low price, low risk, and ultimately curiosity (I know what latex is like, and was curious about the latex/memory foam combination) drove my decision. Here are my thoughts on it.
The buying/delivery experience was excellent. Their site is thoroughly modern and easy-to-use. The mattress shipped fast, and was here three days after ordering. Setting the bed up was also easy – slit open the Tyvek bag with the included tool, and it floomps itself into an unfolded mattress, which is easy enough to wrangle onto the frame. If “no hassle” is what you want, it’s hard to imagine it getting any less hassle-y.
To lay out my sleeping preferences, I really strongly dislike memory foam (I hate the “buried” feeling of it and the heat retention) and like the springiness and coolness of latex. I also like softer beds – when I first got the SavvyRest, I got it with soft/medium/firm Dunlop layers, and swapped it out to soft/soft/firm, and at that, it’s about the firmest I’d ever want a bed.
So as soon as you touch or sit on the Casper, you can tell that that those latex and memory foam layers are there for real. It’s got the spring and liveliness of latex, but also a slow-moving compliance that has to come from the memory foam. First impression was kind of a “best of both worlds” thing – the give and softness of memory foam without the quicksand and heat-trap effects? Very cool.
After spending more time sleeping on it, though, it’s not quite that miraculous. It does sleep a bit warm – nothing like straight-up memory foam, but definitely warmer than an all-latex bed. And the memory foam compliance makes it a little bit more awkward than on latex to shift positions. Again, not nearly as bad as straight memory foam. Overall, I think that it’s a solid design choice – it gets you nearly all the memory foam benefits with the drawbacks heavily muted. It won’t be to the taste of a dyed-in-the-wool latex fan, but I think a lot of people will really like it. On balance, I do.
My only real concern with the mattress is how it feels when I lie on my side. I broke my shoulder a year or so back, so it’s prone to aches even now; I’m also on the heavier side. The combination of these things means that when I sleep on my side in this bed, I get uncomfortable pressure on my shoulder – it feels like I’ve bottomed out the comfort layers, and am up against the firmer poly foam of the core. It’s interestingly different from the SavvyRest bed – there, the top layer isn’t nearly as soft, but it never gets as firm as you sink in, either; it’s much more progressive in its stiffening up, and ends up ultimately feeling more accommodating even though it starts firmer. I sort of wish the Casper people had put another couple of inches of latex/memory foam on, because I think that’d solve the problem for me. Still, if you’re lighter or less delicate, I doubt this would be a problem at all.
So also, this bed is used for guests a lot, and three people slept in it at various points over the holiday weekend.
The first person normally sleeps on a waterbed(!), and his bete noire is heat – he sleeps hot and wants beds that stay cool (like his waterbed does, apparently). He thought the Casper was warmer than he’d prefer, but very much in the “normal mattress” range and not like a memory foam bed (which he hates). From a comfort perspective, he thought that Casper was perfectly fine.
The other two guests have an innerspring bed, and expressed deep hatred of memory foam. They liked the feel of the Casper, and thought the heat was just perfectly fine. No complaints at all from them.
So, take that for what it’s worth. I’ve still got plenty of time left on my trial, but I’d be surprised if I didn’t end up keeping it at this point.
Hi mkozlows,
Thanks for taking the time to share your comments and feedback in such detail … I appreciate it
Your experience mirrors my own in the sense that I also prefer latex over memory foam combinations than the other way around because I prefer a more resilient sleeping surface with some of the slower response and sinking in of the memory foam underneath it (although I prefer latex without memory foam more) but of course this is just a preference and others prefer hybrid memory foam and latex comfort layers with the memory foam on top.
I think your comments about higher weights “going through” the comfort layers are also useful because with a 3" comfort layer that uses lower density memory foam (which is often softer) and synthetic latex which has a lower compression modulus than natural latex (it is less “supportive” and doesn’t firm up as fast when you sink into it more deeply) it wouldn’t surprise me that some people in higher weight ranges would have the same experience as you did.
Thanks again for your very helpful and useful feedback.
Phoenix
Any others in the forum that have experience with the casper mattress? I am going between the casper and tuft and needle. Confused on which direction to.go since we just returned memory foam mattress that was unsupportive.
Hi nes1984,
There are some comments in post #2 here that may be helpful and a forum search on Casper (you can just click the link) will bring up more comments and feedback about their mattress as well.
Phoenix
For those of you wondering how the Casper compares to the Tuft and Needle you should definitely check out this comparison review (link deleted by Phoenix because there are too many inaccuracies and too much misinformation in the comparison).
Like the reviewer, I also bought the Tuft and Needle first, but ended up returning it for the Casper. T&N was nice, but just too firm for me. The Casper has a much softer feel and just felt a whole lot better to me. If you like a really firm mattress you’d probably love the Tuft and Needle, otherwise I’d highly recommend the Casper. It’s be wonderful so far! :cheer:
Hi stephanietib,
Wow … whoever wrote that comparison is either trying to be purposely misleading or they don’t know very much about mattresses in general or the specific mattresses they are comparing. They are trying to make an “apples to oranges” comparison between two mattresses that are very different and they are also providing some very inaccurate information about mattresses in general and about the materials and the relative “value” of each mattress in particular. They are more caught up in the hype than in the substance of each mattress.
Their description of the materials in each mattress is incorrect. Tuft & Needle isn’t a latex hybrid for example and doesn’t have any latex or memory foam either and the Casper uses thin layers of medium density memory foam and synthetic latex in the comfort layers … not high density memory foam … and neither one has a memory foam “core” which no manufacturer would use in a mattress because memory foam isn’t a suitable material for a support core. Their comments about “unheard of” trial periods are also incorrect (there are many manufacturers that have similar or longer trial periods than either of them), and their comments about “quality” don’t include accurate information about the materials in each mattress and in terms of quality/durability, a mattress is only as good as the quality of the materials inside it.
I would also be aware that both of them are what are called “cut and sew” mattresses that are made by another company and neither one has their own factory. In other words they are both mattress resellers and neither one is truly “factory direct” and they both have more “middle men” than an actual factory direct manufacturer with their own mattress factory.
There is also a significant price difference between them and for those who want a softer comfort layer the price difference between a queen Tuft & Needle and a queen Casper is about $350 which is more than enough to buy a softer 3" topper for the Tuft & Needle that uses the same or higher quality materials than either the 1.5" of 4 lb memory foam or the 1.5" of synthetic latex in the Casper. This would also have the advantage of being able to replace the topper without having to replace the entire mattress because the comfort layers of a mattress are generally the weakest link in terms of durability and the useful life of a mattress.
It’s not often that I see a comparison between two mattresses that is that misleading or inaccurate.
Phoenix
Hey guys, chiming in here - I’m a co-founder at Casper.
Steven - I’m not sure of that website but thanks for bringing it to our attention. As Phoenix says, it is certainly inaccurate.
Phoenix - Thanks again for guiding the conversation, I apologize for not being more active. I frequently check the thread and this is truly an amazing resource for informing a purchase design.
A couple clarifications:
On your cut and sew point, the Casper is our own design from our own engineering lab in Providence. For factories, We actually use two different manufacturers for the foams in our mattress (although final assembly and combining of these is in Atlanta) and 3 different manufacturers for textiles (also finally assembled in Atlanta). From a consumer standpoint, and “middlemen” standpoint, the experience of this business model to end consumer is far more economic than the one with a retail middleman, simply because contractor margins are deeper in the chain than retail ones. Moreover, the big guys who use multiple foam types are also employing contract manufacturing at scale.
To the buy-plain-poly-mattress-and-integrate-two-seperate-toppers on top to save money, I’m not sure I agree that this provides the same human experience. For one, you’re talking about many layers of textiles between foam layers ~10 (causing sliding between layers as pressure is applied, and a different temperature profile across the bed(multiple FR covers etc). Achieving a similar experience as a Casper by buying commodity parts, FR covers etc. would not be a proposition I would buy into.
Re quality, are you using density as your benchmark? or dunlop versus talalay?
If either of those, we have very specific engineering reasons, rather than cost based ones for those decisions. Philosophically for us, it is more about how the two layers work with each other than it is the absolute densities or ILDS of each layers. Happy to have someone more qualified than me elaborate if need be.
Hi tlukesherwin,
I completely agree that a cut and sew supply chain is generally more economical and cost effective than the supply chain that “feeds” a typical retail store although this may not be true in all cases because it depends on the specific retailer and manufacturer. For example a retail store that buys their mattresses from a local manufacturer that is close to them that in turn buys their materials directly from the foam or component manufacturers would have a similar supply chain to yours. This site also has a different frame of reference than most of the rest of the industry which is dominated by the major manufacturers (see here) because so many of the options that are mentioned here are actual mattress manufacturers that own their own factory and equipment and sell direct to consumers which would usually be a more direct and economical supply chain yet (again depending on whether they order their materials directly from a foam pourer or the manufacturer of their components or if they order from a foam fabricator or supplier). The reference points for comparison here are the “best of the industry” and aren’t the “big guys” at all which are generally considered “poor quality/value” and “avoid” options on this site.
You’re certainly right that it wouldn’t provide the “same” experience because the designs and materials would be different (see post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can “match” or “approximate” another one). I certainly wasn’t implying that adding a topper to a Tuft & Needle mattress would be the same mattress as the Casper … because it wouldn’t. Because of the many variables involved and the somewhat subjective nature of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) if you were to use a “target” of a theoretical ideal in terms of PPP then a mattress/topper combination could be closer or further away from their ideal depending on the specifics of each one. Any extra layers of textile between foam layers would certainly have some effect on the feel and performance of the mattress but once again the specific effect would depend on the specifics of all the materials in the “sleeping system” and how they interact together and with the body type and sleeping positions of each person. In some cases the effect of having a separate topper can be beneficial because of the independence of movement and response you are referring to (somewhat like a pillowtop that can respond more independently than the same layer inside a mattress). There is more about this in posts #3 and #4 here and in this topic. As you mentioned … each layer of the mattress would also affect the temperature profile for better or for worse depending again on the specifics (see post #2 here for more about the many variables that can affect temperature regulation).
There are many “benchmarks” for quality depending on whether you are talking about durability or about specific aspects of performance. In most cases … quality in the context that I use it most often on this site would refer to density/durability in the case of memory foam or polyfoam. In the case of latex it’s somewhat different because all latex is a durable material relative to other types of foam so in the context I used it in this post it would refer more to the cost of the latex which generally depends on the manufacturing process (Talalay is more costly than Dunlop) and on the percentage of natural or synthetic rubber used in the latex (natural is more costly than synthetic). Having said that … in the case of latex … more costly doesn’t necessarily mean more durable or “better” because even synthetic latex is a very durable material although it has different properties from say the 100% natural continuous pour Dunlop which is also made by Mountaintop which would be denser and would have a higher compression modulus and more of the other properties of natural rubber vs synthetic rubber (such as resilience) … and of course would be more costly as well.
The point I was trying to make in this case was relative to the article I was commenting on which used “quality” very loosely and with no specific meaning. I completely agree with you for example that a lower density and less durable memory foam or a lower cost version of latex with certain specific properties may be a better choice in a specific mattress or for specific people to achieve a certain price point or a specific “feel” or design goal than a higher density memory foam or a version of latex with a higher natural rubber content that may have less desirable properties for a specific application or may put the mattress outside of the price point that is the target. As you mentioned all the layers and components of a mattress interact with every other layer and these are just part of the many tradeoffs that are involved in every mattress design. You can see what I would consider to be the most important parts of the “value” or “success” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here and suitability in terms of PPP (how well you sleep on a mattress) is always first … followed by durability (how long you will sleep well) … followed by how the mattress compares to others based on all the other parts of each person’s personal value equation that are important to them.
Phoenix
The comparison link stephaietib gives (sleepopolis…) has a lot of incorrect information about the T&N mattress which is 3 layers of polyfoam. I think the link is there to direct to $50 discount links not for accurate information.
I was so incensed when I read #24 I hadn’t read your #25 when I replied. Agree with everything you said.
I am still undecided between T&N or Casper. Realize I can return either if not satisfactory but not sure which to try first. I am leaning toward trying T&N first because it is less expensive and has a shorter test period. I am currently sleeping on a very high qualtiy cotton futon on a high quality slat platform with a memory foam topper. Not sure if it is considered firm or soft. No sleep problems but would like more height. If my comfort with any new mattress is not as good as or better than my current sleep, I won’t keep the new mattress.
Your site, both your comments and others, are very helpful. Thanks very much.
I read about this brand in the Times. Thanks to Phoenix and to all who contributed the additional information. This site is a gold mine and I’m so glad I found it before making my purchase. I’ve decided to get another type of mattress, but Casper’s model is intriguing and I’ll be following its progress in the marketplace.
Hi scratchbaker,
[quote]The comparison link stephaietib gives (sleepopolis…) has a lot of incorrect information about the T&N mattress which is 3 layers of polyfoam. I think the link is there to direct to $50 discount links not for accurate information.
I was so incensed when I read #24 I hadn’t read your #25 when I replied. Agree with everything you said.[/quote]
While I’m normally very hesitant to do so … on further thought I just decided to delete the link because there were too many inaccuracies and misinformation in the content.
Good luck in your final decision (see post #2 here) and I’m looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding :).
Of course “in theory” you could also purchase both of them and keep the one that was the best “match” for you based on your actual sleeping experience and the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.
Phoenix
At this point, the mattress I want to try first will be the coolest but I’m having a hard time with that.
After pushing the T&N customer service reps yesterday, I finally got a definitive description of the new cover they are using (and they updated the website after my inquiry). Until recently it was cotton. I was emailed “In follow up, our cover is a 50/50 blend of rayon and polyester, with the surface fabric being 95% rayon. We’ve also updated our specs page to reflect that: https://www.tuftandneedle.com/mattress/specs.”
I had found this site What are the Best Fabrics to Wear in Tropical Climates? which extols the virtues of rayon.
I have not yet gotten equivalent detailed information from Casper regarding the fabric content of their cover.
It seems the latex top of the Casper should be cooler than the polyfoam from T&N but I think a “hot” cover (mostly polyester) would negate the latex advantage. Haven’t heard back yet after emailing the Casper co-founder who left his contact info on your site. Casper so far has told me the cover fabric is “a poly blend”. Also, the trial period for Casper is now 100 days. Seems they are going head-to-head with Tuft & Needle. NYT wrote up Casper this past Thursday so their volume is probably up, for inquiries at least.
Hi scratchaker,
Unfortunately there is no way to know for certain whether one mattress will sleep warmer than another one relative to a specific person because there are too many variables involved that can affect sleeping temperature and there is no specific testing protocol that compares mattresses as a whole so your own personal experience is really the only way to know whether a mattress will be “temperature regulating enough” for you.
Having said that … post #2 here and the posts it links to has more information about all the variables that can affect temperature regulation (including the type of mattress protector and the sheets and bedding you use) that may be helpful.
There is also more information in post #7 here and post #11 here that compares the pros and cons of cotton to rayon and other viscose type of materials that may also be helpful.
I don’t think that either one of them would “sleep hot” for most people but only your own personal experience can tell you if you are the exception (which is part of the value of their trial period).
Phoenix
A follow-up. I bought the Tuft and Needle mattress and it arrived yesterday. Box was rather heavy and I had to drag it from the front door to the bedroom. Then getting it out of its heavy plastic wrapping was tricky without damaging the mattress cover or the zipper, but I managed it. Then I had to drag my rolled futon across the house to a closet. My lower back was really hurting (micro-tears in the muscle no doubt) so I was thinking it would take awhile to know if the T&N mattress would offer a good night’s sleep.
The mattress is on an excellent quality slat platform oak bed I had made in 1980. The mattress unrolled immediately once I got the shipping plastic cut away. The cover had no wrinkles and the mattress had no outgassing. I put on a new mattress pad (cotton top, poly padding, nothing fancy).
Good news is that I slept great last night. The better news is that when I woke up, several normal aches were GONE. I had to take more ibuprofen to deal with the micro-tears, but my back had absolutely no stiffness, nor did my knees, hips, or elbows. It was a very refreshing and rejuvenating sleep. Even my dog slept all night.
I ordered the mattress on Thursday and they shipped it FedEx from CA. It arrived Saturday morning. It has the new rayon/polyester cover and looked flawless. I’m thus far very very happy I made this purchase. I have 30 days to return it if I want to. I decided to try the T&N before trying a Casper because other people implied it was more firm than the Casper. Well, it is firm but not “hard” firm. Just very good support kind of firm. I didn’t want to be sinking in much, but I can feel the mattress supporting pressure points, like knees, ankles, hips just enough. I start sleeping on my side and end up on my stomach. Had no trouble being comfortable as soon as the lights were out.
That’s my feedback. Hope others find it helpful.