Does anyone have more information on the Charles P. Rogers beds or know of anyone who has bought one and what they think? I"m looking at their priciest bed which supposedly has Talalay latex and some memory and gel foam. Itās called the Estate 9000 Luxury Plush. However, I donāt live near a store so would have to order it untried, which also means I canāt return it if iām not satisfied. I was also looking at the innerspring and hybrid innersprings for a guest room, but again, would like more info on the quality. I also read about the company on The Old Bed Guy and had previously seen ads for theis beds in āDecorā an interior decorating magazine that seems to advertise high end stuff. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Iām in Burlington VT, so donāt have much opportunity to actually try beds in person. I already bought a couple Sertas that Iām not happy with (I-Series Applause firm and Celebration Firm). Also bought an Amerisleep (like a tempurpedic) that I will be sending back with much trouble). Thanks.
Iām just copy pasting from the Charles P. Rogers website regarding the specs on that Estate 9000 Luxury plush I asked aboutā¦it seems the webisite gives a lot of detailed specs. Sounds good to a layperson like me, but iām easy to fool as Iāve made a few bad mattress choices already. Here is the copy-paste on that bed. Iād appreciate your opinion. Thanks.
Estateā¢ Latex Mattress
Why are these mattresses different and unique?
Because our care, experience and quality will help you realize your true sleep potential.
Simply put, the way we put our top quality materials together makes a better mattress.
The innovative designs and our investment in specialty equipment provides an ability to do things other manufacturers canāt easily duplicate.
You get the best materials available. If we canāt find something good enough, we create it ourselves.
You can buy with confidence. Estateā¢ Latex mattresses are made at our East Rutherford, NJ factory. Our quality control is 100%.
Every mattress is carefully built and thoroughly checked by proud people who truly care.
Powercoreā¢ Spring Mattress Units
The exclusive Powercoreā¢ Mattress Unit is the secret behind achieving a new level of comfort and true relaxation.
This is a new, better spring system. The individual spring design and placement, attachment, proper insulation between rows of coils and careful control of finished sizing make for a super durable and unusually comfortable spring unit.
A Powercoreā¢ Unit would provide a good nights sleep without an ounce of additional padding, but of course we add progressive layers of premium quality Talalay latex.
Designed for use with latex foam, all coils that make up a Powercoreā¢ unit are proprietary winds of ultra- high tensile strength extremely flexible steel wire.
Our wireās tensile strength is 20% more than wire used by the leading U.S. mass manufacturer. The coils are pre-loaded for strength and compressed into individual technical fabric pockets.
To provide better reaction and response to body pressure points throughout the unit, the coils feature more turns, more wire and more flexibility than any previous design.
The assembly and attachment of the springs into a complete innerspring unit is done by a CNC computer controlled robotic agglomerating machine.
The very specifics of our Powercore Plusā¢ unit are trade secrets (coil designs, assembly techniques etc.) that required us to develop our own machinery to keep this knowledge āin houseā.
We welcome visitors, with appointments, on a tour of our East Rutherford factory where these are made to see the machines and craftsmen in operation.
Talalay Latex Comfort Padding
The comfort padding are layers of pure, American made Talalay latex.
The Talalay latex process creates a more consistant padding material than latex using the Dunlop method.
Latex foam is naturally cool, non-toxic, anti-bacterial and allergen resistant.
Latex is a resilient support material and less prone to body impressions than petroleum based foams.
The border is built right into our mattress with a carefully fashioned foam encasement.
These arrangement are done to create mattresses with a traditionally firm, yet responsive feel.
Underneath the upholstery, our Powercoreā¢ Unit unobtrusively provides instant adjustment and progressive support for the user without external controls.
Environmental Facts
Absolutely no solvents are used in the construction and assembly of our Estateā¢ Latex mattresses.
The steel for the innersprings is mostly post-industrial recycled and is 100% recyclable.
Our mattresses are Fire Retardant, designed and tested to meet CSPC standard 1633 without any use of chemical treatments,
All foams used are US or Canadian made and meet very strict manufacturing standards for HAP and VOC emissions.
Our foams are made without the use of PBDE, CFCās, mercury, lead or prohibited phthalates or other harmful substances.
While no mattress is completely emissions free, ours should be as low as any in the marketplace.
Customers can check foam manufacturer websites such as Carpenter (http://www.carpenter.com/), Hickory (http://www.hickorysprings.com/2008/Foam.html) and Latex International (http://www.latexfoam.com/) for more foam specific information.
āNo returnā would translate into āno purchaseā for me - but thatās because I recently bought a mattress under those terms, so sure was I that it would be perfect. After I spend some more money trying to make it closer to perfect, it may be fine - but I learned a lesson, and the cost of lifeās little lessons do tend to add up.
I donāt like the notion of a āfoam encasementā unless Iām interpreting that wrong, and I saw the word āsecretā a couple of times, which rubs me the wrong way. The whole thing reads like car salesman-like spin to me (but I tend to be a bit on the snarky side at times). I see a lot of talk about the springs, but not much clarification about the density of the Talalay latex or how much latex is actually used.
Also, I think some companies have great quality control - but I donāt believe anyone never makes a mistake, so to claim 100% quality control raises a red flag to me.
Iām sure Phoenix will have more pertinent thoughts on the matter - I was just struck by these things on reading your post.
They donāt provide enough information to make any meaningful assessment or comments about the mattress (the only thing they say is that it has an innerspring (pocket coil) and some Talalay latex). What you would need to find out is the thickness of all the layers or components from top to bottom, the type of material in each layer, the density of any polyfoam or memory foam, and the type and blend of any latex. If the mattress has an innerspring (which this one does) then it would also be helpful to know the type of innerspring (in this case itās a pocket coil), along with the number and gauge of the coils. I would also want to know the density of the foam surround that was surrounding the innerspring.
They should be able to provide this for you and if you can post this on the forum Iād be happy to help you identify any potential weak links in the mattress or to make more comments about it.
There are a few thoughts about Charles P Rogers in general in post #2 here although their current lineup is new.
You can also see my thoughts about some of the misleading and deceptive information on the Old Bed Guy website and the reason he promotes them so heavily in this topic.
They do seem to have a good return policy. I should also mention that the density of latex for a local purchase isnāt really relevant because itās not a āquality specā with latex.
Thanks Phoenix (and Clawdia). I guess, given that there is so little info on this mattress and no reviews on the web, and that you cannot return the mattress if you havenāt tried it personally in their showroom and live in their local area, then I think I wonāt chance it. I may end up getting a Saatva for my guest room, but still have no idea what to get for my own mattress. I am stuck now with a Serta Savant (I think thatās the name) I comfort for my daughter and a couple twin extra long I comfort prodigyās for another guest room. I tried the one latex bed left in this Burlington area (floor model on clearance)ā¦I forgot what itās calledā¦Nature or Natura something, but it was too hard. This bed buying business is stressful. But thanks for the info and opinions on your website. All I want is the perfect (āhotel luxury bedā) that will always feel great, but the more you research (and buy) the harder it is to decide. Adriatic. ot ei
If you havenāt read it yet ā¦ the tutorial post here has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choices ā¦ and avoid the worst ones. It can also help you focus on the more important information in the forum and the site instead of reaching a point of āinformation overloadā.
I missed the part about you being in Burlington, VT and in this case I would tend to avoid an online mattress purchase where there were no exchange or return privileges.
Once you get to step 3 in the tutorial post some of the better options and possibilities Iām aware of in the Burlington, VT area are listed in post #4 here.
Hotel beds are not a particularly good quality or value choice and tend to be less durable than consumer mattresses. You can read more about them in post #3 here.
Phoenix,
Thanks. You are right. After I replied last time, I did, in fact, go through all of the tutorial posts. They certainly are exhaustive. I decided I will look at the manufacturers approved by your site to see what they offer and if you can buy online and return. Looks like Restava is one of them, so I will research them and a few others and try again. I know the hotel beds arenāt so great, but they usually feel great in the moment you are there. Iām hoping for a bed with that eternal moment, i.e., one where the nice feel actually lasts. Iāll let you know what I try.
I think thatās the goal for everyone ā¦ the āahhhā feel when you first go to bed (good comfort / pressure relief) ā¦ that still feels great when you wake up in the morning (good alignment / support) ā¦ is a good match for all your other preferences (temperature regulation, motion separation etc) ā¦ and can maintain good PPP in 10 years or so down the road (durable materials).
Now if only finding this was just as easy as describing it
If you like the feel of memory foam then the retailers and manufacturers on the memory foam list certainly have some great options. Many of them use some of the more common memory foam mattresses (such as Tempurpedic) as reference points so you can test a local mattress that is similar to the one you are considering to use as a reference point.
Thought Iād jump in as I revisited the Charles P. Rogers store this weekend, and Iām seriously considering purchasing one of their memory foam/innerspring hybrids.
In regards to some of the above, the store changed locations recently, so there may have been a time when things were disorganized over there. Their new mattresses seem pretty nice, much better than their old line, although, yeah, maybe the sales people could know the details of them a little better. (Interestingly, in the lower level of their store, youāll find the inside materials on display for most of their beds, you can see the densities & thicknesses of the talalay they use in their latex hybrids, for instance.)
The one Iām considering is their Cool Ultra (http://www.charlesprogers.com/powercore-plus-p-579.html). It uses their own innersprings, inside a foam encasement, topped with 4 inches of 4lb memory gel foam, wrapped in organic cotton. They wouldnāt tell me who makes the foam for āproprietary reasons,ā but after a few calls I at least confirmed the density. (Edit: and that itās made in USA foam.)
As far as comfort and support, I think itās a good match for me. I like that itās local, I like that Iāve been able to try it out before buying. I suppose my question is: is the foam encasement - versus and edge-to-edge coil construction - a major design drawback? My second choice at this point would be perhaps the Sundance from RMM, but Iām a little wary of not being able to judge the feel of something before it arrives. Iāve been doing that with toppers, and itās something Iād rather avoid if possible.
Any thoughts? Anyone have any experience with these new beds? Iād love to hear.
And for anyone interested in these beds, just press them with questions, they seem pretty willing to call their New Jersey factory and find out what they can.
As for the photo - Iāll add, this isnāt the exact design of this bed (different foam) but a close approximation of the construction, just for discussion.
It would depend on the specifics of the foam edge support and the type of steel edge support you were comparing it to but post #2 here has more information that should be helpful.
I would be aware that they donāt make their own innersprings and they donāt manufacture their own mattresses (they are made for them according to my conversations with them). If they provide you with all the information you need about all the layers inside their mattress then you would certainly be able to make more meaningful comparisons with other mattresses and they would be well worth considering. Post #4 here has more about the information I would want to know. I would make sure that the thickness of all the layers and components add up to the thickness of the mattress so that there arenāt more than about an inch or so of unknown materials in the mattress which could become the weak link of the mattress over time. 4 lb memory foam is in the medium density range and would normally be fine as long as you arenāt in a higher weight range where 5 lb memory foam may be a more suitable and durable choice. ADDED: They built their own mattresses for many years but then they changed to contracting them out to another manufacturer but I have since confirmed that they are now building their own once again (including manufacturing their own innersprings) for the Powercore line.
As to where theyāre manufactured, a few years back they told me their beds were being constructed in China. At this recent visit, they said everything was now built at ātheirā factory in New Jersey, and their springs were manufactured at that site. Do you have info that contradicts this?
Iām fine with 4lb foam. I weigh 130, and Iāve tried some 5lb from both RMM and Brooklyn Bedding, I know formulas vary, but I think Iām better off with 4lb.
Based on conversations Iāve had with them ā¦ they donāt own their own factory or build their own mattresses but they are built to their specifications by a private mattress manufacturer. I donāt know which specific manufacturer makes them (and itās certainly possible that their manufacturer makes their own springs although there arenāt many that do). ADDED: They built their own mattresses for many years but then they changed to contracting them out to another manufacturer but I have since confirmed that they are now building their own once again (including manufacturing their own innersprings) for their Powercore models.
They do claim to make the springs on site, so perhaps they are the exception.
As they have a 90 try out policy, I decided to give the Cool Ultra a go. I confirmed that the model in the photo reflects the build of the bed, (Iām pretty sure the foam is made by Hickory Springs, as their website suggests), & the foam encasement seems well assembled, supportive and glued and all. Most importantly, I spent time on it in the store and actually slept well for a few minutes. It comes Thursday, Iāll give it some time and let the board know what I think.
14" Thick
Powercore Plusā¢ Instant Response Spring Unit
Three progressive layers of cool Gel-infused Visco Memory Foam
Organic Top Fabric and Woven fabric border and gusset with handles
ā¦ which unfortunately are very incomplete.
Were you able to find out the details of all the layers and components (that hopefully add up to 14")?
It would be great news if they are willing and able to provide this so their customers can assess the quality of the mattress, identify any potential weak links (if there are any), and of course make more meaningful comparisons to other mattresses.
In their 17th Street showroom, they have samples of the internals of all their beds, including the Cool Ultra. (Their latex design, for example, if you wanted to know the exact layering in that one.) Their website mentions the Hickory Springs brand, and one of the samples I saw had āHickoryā written on the side, so that seems to check out. A salesman called the factory and confirmed that it was 4lb. I donāt know the density of the foam used in the encasement, but I was able to hold the sample in my hand, compare it to the spring strength, itās very strong, much better than others I seen, though I guess thatās my only real unknown at this point. The bit about their springs was quoted from the website above:
āDesigned for use with gel-memory foam, all coils that make up a Powercore Plusā¢ unit are proprietary winds of ultra- high tensile strength extremely flexible steel wire.
To provide better reaction and response to body pressure points throughout the unit, the coils feature more turns, more wire and more flexibility than any previous design.
Our wireās tensile strength is 20% more than wire used by the leading U.S. mass manufacturer. The coils are pre-loaded for strength and compressed into individual technical fabric pockets.
The assembly and attachment of the springs into a complete innerspring unit is done by a CNC computer controlled robotic agglomerating machine.
The very specifics of our Powercore Plusā¢ unit are trade secrets (coil designs, assembly techniques etc.) that required us to develop our own machinery to keep this knowledge āin houseā.ā
Unfortunately the samples wouldnāt give you the information you need. The density of the polyfoam or memory foam and the type and blend of latex is the minimum information that is necessary to assess the quality of the materials in the mattress (see post #4 here).
The firmness of a foam also has little to do with its quality because both lower and higher density foams can be made in a very wide range of firmness levels and you canāt āfeelā the quality of a foam.
The answer is: the encasement is 1.5 lb 44IFD poly foam. Making the construction (might be off a fraction here or there) 4" 4lb gel foam on 1" encasement foam on 8" power core springs on 1" encasement foam. Overall thoughts? Iām guessing ideally that encasement foam should be a higher density? Iāve got time to delay or cancel, but Iāll need to tell either way them soon.
Thanks for challenging me to check everything out, thatās why I come here!
My only caution is that you listed a single layer of memory foam and the description says it has 3 progressive layers of memory foam so the 4 lb density may not apply to all of them.
The 4 lb memory foam is medium density/quality and can work well for someone that isnāt in a heavier than average weight range. The 1.5 lb polyfoam (the 44 is a firmness rating which is very firm) is a little on the low density side and I would prefer 1.8 lb and higher because of the greater durability. Once again it would probably be OK as long as you arenāt in a heavier weight range or donāt spend too much time sitting on the edge or your mattress. You can see some of my thoughts about edge support for an innerspring in post #2 here.
The āvalueā of a mattress purchase depends on how it compares to your other āfinal choicesā and what else is available to you in your area but as a point of reference for a mainstream mattress the Serta iSeries Jubilance has many similarities (4" of memory foam over a pocket coil with a foam surround) except the top 2" of memory foam are slightly higher density (5 lb). Of course it may also have a completely different āfeelā that may or may not be suitable for you in terms of PPP because of differences between the springs and the properties of the different types of memory foam so quality comparisons are only part of the picture and comparisons based on PPP are just as important.
Except for a very pricey Vi Spring, itās my favorite thing in NYC, and Iāve been everywhere.
I think, based on the sample I handled (the picture is above), the foam is assembled in two 1 inch slabs over one 2 inch for 4" total. The factory said 4 lbs, and they all felt the same when I handled it. Their latex beds are layered in increasing densities, that I know.
Pros: itās made & sold locally, the covering is much nicer than the Serta, and Iāve been able to test it before inviting it home. Value wise, it compares well to similar products. The springs are unique and hopefully wonderful. Within 90 days I can return or exchange.
As Iām pretty light, I think the foam density is probably not a major issue.
I think I feel confident enough to proceed, so Iāll be getting it delivered tomorrow. With any luck, my years of non sleep can finally come to an end!
If youāve tested the mattress carefully and objectively for PPP using the testing guidelines, you are confident that the quality/durability of the materials are āgood enoughā for you based on knowing the specifics of the materials inside the mattress, and that out of your finalists the Cool Ultra is the best choice for you based on the criteria of your personal value equation that are most important to you, then I would say you are making a good choice that is āwell informedā and of course thatās the main goal of the site.
So congratulations on your new mattress
Iām looking forward to your feedback once youāve had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.
