Thanks Phoenix (and Clawdia). I guess, given that there is so little info on this mattress and no reviews on the web, and that you cannot return the mattress if you havenāt tried it personally in their showroom and live in their local area, then I think I wonāt chance it. I may end up getting a Saatva for my guest room, but still have no idea what to get for my own mattress. I am stuck now with a Serta Savant (I think thatās the name) I comfort for my daughter and a couple twin extra long I comfort prodigyās for another guest room. I tried the one latex bed left in this Burlington area (floor model on clearance)ā¦I forgot what itās calledā¦Nature or Natura something, but it was too hard. This bed buying business is stressful. But thanks for the info and opinions on your website. All I want is the perfect (āhotel luxury bedā) that will always feel great, but the more you research (and buy) the harder it is to decide. Adriatic. ot ei
Hi adriatic,
If you havenāt read it yet ā¦ the tutorial post here has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choices ā¦ and avoid the worst ones. It can also help you focus on the more important information in the forum and the site instead of reaching a point of āinformation overloadā.
I missed the part about you being in Burlington, VT and in this case I would tend to avoid an online mattress purchase where there were no exchange or return privileges.
Once you get to step 3 in the tutorial post some of the better options and possibilities Iām aware of in the Burlington, VT area are listed in post #4 here.
Hotel beds are not a particularly good quality or value choice and tend to be less durable than consumer mattresses. You can read more about them in post #3 here.
Phoenix
Phoenix,
Thanks. You are right. After I replied last time, I did, in fact, go through all of the tutorial posts. They certainly are exhaustive. I decided I will look at the manufacturers approved by your site to see what they offer and if you can buy online and return. Looks like Restava is one of them, so I will research them and a few others and try again. I know the hotel beds arenāt so great, but they usually feel great in the moment you are there. Iām hoping for a bed with that eternal moment, i.e., one where the nice feel actually lasts. Iāll let you know what I try.
Hi adriatic,
I think thatās the goal for everyone ā¦ the āahhhā feel when you first go to bed (good comfort / pressure relief) ā¦ that still feels great when you wake up in the morning (good alignment / support) ā¦ is a good match for all your other preferences (temperature regulation, motion separation etc) ā¦ and can maintain good PPP in 10 years or so down the road (durable materials).
Now if only finding this was just as easy as describing it 
If you like the feel of memory foam then the retailers and manufacturers on the memory foam list certainly have some great options. Many of them use some of the more common memory foam mattresses (such as Tempurpedic) as reference points so you can test a local mattress that is similar to the one you are considering to use as a reference point.
Phoenix
Thought Iād jump in as I revisited the Charles P. Rogers store this weekend, and Iām seriously considering purchasing one of their memory foam/innerspring hybrids.
In regards to some of the above, the store changed locations recently, so there may have been a time when things were disorganized over there. Their new mattresses seem pretty nice, much better than their old line, although, yeah, maybe the sales people could know the details of them a little better. (Interestingly, in the lower level of their store, youāll find the inside materials on display for most of their beds, you can see the densities & thicknesses of the talalay they use in their latex hybrids, for instance.)
The one Iām considering is their Cool Ultra (http://www.charlesprogers.com/powercore-plus-p-579.html). It uses their own innersprings, inside a foam encasement, topped with 4 inches of 4lb memory gel foam, wrapped in organic cotton. They wouldnāt tell me who makes the foam for āproprietary reasons,ā but after a few calls I at least confirmed the density. (Edit: and that itās made in USA foam.)
As far as comfort and support, I think itās a good match for me. I like that itās local, I like that Iāve been able to try it out before buying. I suppose my question is: is the foam encasement - versus and edge-to-edge coil construction - a major design drawback? My second choice at this point would be perhaps the Sundance from RMM, but Iām a little wary of not being able to judge the feel of something before it arrives. Iāve been doing that with toppers, and itās something Iād rather avoid if possible.
Any thoughts? Anyone have any experience with these new beds? Iād love to hear.
And for anyone interested in these beds, just press them with questions, they seem pretty willing to call their New Jersey factory and find out what they can.
As for the photo - Iāll add, this isnāt the exact design of this bed (different foam) but a close approximation of the construction, just for discussion.
Hi mg517,
It would depend on the specifics of the foam edge support and the type of steel edge support you were comparing it to but post #2 here has more information that should be helpful.
I would be aware that they donāt make their own innersprings and they donāt manufacture their own mattresses (they are made for them according to my conversations with them). If they provide you with all the information you need about all the layers inside their mattress then you would certainly be able to make more meaningful comparisons with other mattresses and they would be well worth considering. Post #4 here has more about the information I would want to know. I would make sure that the thickness of all the layers and components add up to the thickness of the mattress so that there arenāt more than about an inch or so of unknown materials in the mattress which could become the weak link of the mattress over time. 4 lb memory foam is in the medium density range and would normally be fine as long as you arenāt in a higher weight range where 5 lb memory foam may be a more suitable and durable choice. ADDED: They built their own mattresses for many years but then they changed to contracting them out to another manufacturer but I have since confirmed that they are now building their own once again (including manufacturing their own innersprings) for the Powercore line.
Phoenix
As to where theyāre manufactured, a few years back they told me their beds were being constructed in China. At this recent visit, they said everything was now built at ātheirā factory in New Jersey, and their springs were manufactured at that site. Do you have info that contradicts this?
Iām fine with 4lb foam. I weigh 130, and Iāve tried some 5lb from both RMM and Brooklyn Bedding, I know formulas vary, but I think Iām better off with 4lb.
Thanks as always!
Hi mg517,
Based on conversations Iāve had with them ā¦ they donāt own their own factory or build their own mattresses but they are built to their specifications by a private mattress manufacturer. I donāt know which specific manufacturer makes them (and itās certainly possible that their manufacturer makes their own springs although there arenāt many that do). ADDED: They built their own mattresses for many years but then they changed to contracting them out to another manufacturer but I have since confirmed that they are now building their own once again (including manufacturing their own innersprings) for their Powercore models.
Phoenix
They do claim to make the springs on site, so perhaps they are the exception.
As they have a 90 try out policy, I decided to give the Cool Ultra a go. I confirmed that the model in the photo reflects the build of the bed, (Iām pretty sure the foam is made by Hickory Springs, as their website suggests), & the foam encasement seems well assembled, supportive and glued and all. Most importantly, I spent time on it in the store and actually slept well for a few minutes. It comes Thursday, Iāll give it some time and let the board know what I think.
Thanks & wish me luck!
E
Hi mg517,
The specs of the Cool Ultra that they list on the site are ā¦
14" Thick
Powercore Plusā¢ Instant Response Spring Unit
Three progressive layers of cool Gel-infused Visco Memory Foam
Organic Top Fabric and Woven fabric border and gusset with handles
ā¦ which unfortunately are very incomplete.
Were you able to find out the details of all the layers and components (that hopefully add up to 14")?
It would be great news if they are willing and able to provide this so their customers can assess the quality of the mattress, identify any potential weak links (if there are any), and of course make more meaningful comparisons to other mattresses.
Phoenix
In their 17th Street showroom, they have samples of the internals of all their beds, including the Cool Ultra. (Their latex design, for example, if you wanted to know the exact layering in that one.) Their website mentions the Hickory Springs brand, and one of the samples I saw had āHickoryā written on the side, so that seems to check out. A salesman called the factory and confirmed that it was 4lb. I donāt know the density of the foam used in the encasement, but I was able to hold the sample in my hand, compare it to the spring strength, itās very strong, much better than others I seen, though I guess thatās my only real unknown at this point. The bit about their springs was quoted from the website above:
āDesigned for use with gel-memory foam, all coils that make up a Powercore Plusā¢ unit are proprietary winds of ultra- high tensile strength extremely flexible steel wire.
To provide better reaction and response to body pressure points throughout the unit, the coils feature more turns, more wire and more flexibility than any previous design.
Our wireās tensile strength is 20% more than wire used by the leading U.S. mass manufacturer. The coils are pre-loaded for strength and compressed into individual technical fabric pockets.
The assembly and attachment of the springs into a complete innerspring unit is done by a CNC computer controlled robotic agglomerating machine.
The very specifics of our Powercore Plusā¢ unit are trade secrets (coil designs, assembly techniques etc.) that required us to develop our own machinery to keep this knowledge āin houseā.ā
Hi mg517,
Unfortunately the samples wouldnāt give you the information you need. The density of the polyfoam or memory foam and the type and blend of latex is the minimum information that is necessary to assess the quality of the materials in the mattress (see post #4 here).
The firmness of a foam also has little to do with its quality because both lower and higher density foams can be made in a very wide range of firmness levels and you canāt āfeelā the quality of a foam.
Phoenix
The answer is: the encasement is 1.5 lb 44IFD poly foam. Making the construction (might be off a fraction here or there) 4" 4lb gel foam on 1" encasement foam on 8" power core springs on 1" encasement foam. Overall thoughts? Iām guessing ideally that encasement foam should be a higher density? Iāve got time to delay or cancel, but Iāll need to tell either way them soon.
Thanks for challenging me to check everything out, thatās why I come here!
Hi mg517,
Those are the specs you need ā¦ I think
My only caution is that you listed a single layer of memory foam and the description says it has 3 progressive layers of memory foam so the 4 lb density may not apply to all of them.
The 4 lb memory foam is medium density/quality and can work well for someone that isnāt in a heavier than average weight range. The 1.5 lb polyfoam (the 44 is a firmness rating which is very firm) is a little on the low density side and I would prefer 1.8 lb and higher because of the greater durability. Once again it would probably be OK as long as you arenāt in a heavier weight range or donāt spend too much time sitting on the edge or your mattress. You can see some of my thoughts about edge support for an innerspring in post #2 here.
The āvalueā of a mattress purchase depends on how it compares to your other āfinal choicesā and what else is available to you in your area but as a point of reference for a mainstream mattress the Serta iSeries Jubilance has many similarities (4" of memory foam over a pocket coil with a foam surround) except the top 2" of memory foam are slightly higher density (5 lb). Of course it may also have a completely different āfeelā that may or may not be suitable for you in terms of PPP because of differences between the springs and the properties of the different types of memory foam so quality comparisons are only part of the picture and comparisons based on PPP are just as important.
Phoenix
Except for a very pricey Vi Spring, itās my favorite thing in NYC, and Iāve been everywhere.
I think, based on the sample I handled (the picture is above), the foam is assembled in two 1 inch slabs over one 2 inch for 4" total. The factory said 4 lbs, and they all felt the same when I handled it. Their latex beds are layered in increasing densities, that I know.
Pros: itās made & sold locally, the covering is much nicer than the Serta, and Iāve been able to test it before inviting it home. Value wise, it compares well to similar products. The springs are unique and hopefully wonderful. Within 90 days I can return or exchange.
As Iām pretty light, I think the foam density is probably not a major issue.
I think I feel confident enough to proceed, so Iāll be getting it delivered tomorrow. With any luck, my years of non sleep can finally come to an end!
Thanks again!
E
Hi mg517,
If youāve tested the mattress carefully and objectively for PPP using the testing guidelines, you are confident that the quality/durability of the materials are āgood enoughā for you based on knowing the specifics of the materials inside the mattress, and that out of your finalists the Cool Ultra is the best choice for you based on the criteria of your personal value equation that are most important to you, then I would say you are making a good choice that is āwell informedā and of course thatās the main goal of the site.
So congratulations on your new mattress
Iām looking forward to your feedback once youāve had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.
Phoenix
Dear Phoenix,
I just joined this panel as I am close to making a decision on a mattress purchase. Their are far too many numbers for me and i donāt intend to become an expert, I am just seeking expert advice. The first place I looked was in Consumer Reports. I have trusted them all of my shopping life. They had some very nice things to say about a mattress I had never heard of. I am an Arizona girl and just moved to Rutherford, New Jersey. Just across the bridge from Manhattan and the mattress, The Charles P. Rogers St. Regis is sold from a factory showroom in Manhattan. This mattress according to Consumer Reports was the coolest and most durable, but some side sleepers might prefer one a bit softer.
I want to keep this short. The St.Regis pillow top is a very comfortable mattress. I would have no difficulty sleeping on it. However, they have another line called Powercore Estate, or Estate Powercore, that is unlike anything I have felt in shopping more than ten NYC stores. If a mattress can replicate weightlessness, this does it. The salesman showed me how this is because they make their own springs to their own design and figured out how to make a mattress core that senses the weight and the shape of the sleeper. Sounds like more mattress sales talk, but not when you lie down I had read some posts here from recent purchasers who seemed quite happy but something you wrote makes me question the accuracy of what is being said.
You state that Charles P. Rogers does not make their own mattresses. You may have been given inaccurate information. The truth of the matter is that I took them up on their invitation to visit the factory It is minutes from my home and I have never been in one before. I saw them making mattress after mattress, apparently each one to order. One of the upholsterers told me that his family has worked for them since 1930 and one of daughters will soon start, Apparently they have been making beds since before the Civil War.
They do not make their own foams. I saw them unloading trailers full. And they had also had huge bales of white cotton that looked like they came off a Mississippi old sidewheeler. What I did see was a fascinating production line that uncoils wire from hugh wooden spools at one end, and lines of pocketed coils come out the other end. The machine operator said that these two machines were the only ones made so far, but they are running non stop and may add more. Watching them make bolts of cloth, baskets full of cotton, and thick pieces of what I was told is naturally pure latex, maybe a few thousand yards of thread to quilt and sew it together, and another mattress is made. Their foreman told me that only a tiny number of competitors are so integrated as a large company, Leggett and Platt supplies most of the innards for most mattress assemblers. He wanted to make clear the fact that he is making mattresses basically from scratch and most of what i see out there is assembled from virtually the same parts bin and that is why most mattresses are more the same than different. He did say that Simmons Beautyrest makes good pocketed coils and that some of their machines might be almost a hundred years old. They canāt make anything as conformable as the Powercore and their labor costs must be ten times as high, but the finished product can be very good. One of the other workers told me that he used to work for many years in Shifman Brothers, a few miles away, also in NJ and that they make very good mattresses but still use the same type of spring with the coils tied together that they have used for over half a century.
I am digressing. I think that you should set your readers straight because there is so much love of yours evident in what you do, you would not like to be called out for not telling things the way they are.
I wish you the best in your work and will continue reading until I finally can make a decision. I think I will settle on the Rogers, but I have heard about Duxiana from some people at work and as they have two NYC stores, I can check them out first. I really like the 90 day comfort guarantee at Rogers, but I shop until I drop. I will keep reading and maybe contributing. Thanks Again. Polly;
I am posting the below from the Charles P. Rogers Website. It is from a button at the bottom of the specs and contains a public invitation to their new factory. If you live nearby, you should take it. I found it very educational.
More Powercoreā¢ Information closeClose
Estateā¢ Latex Mattress
Why are these mattresses different and unique?
Because our care, experience and quality will help you realize your true sleep potential.
Simply put, the way we put our top quality materials together makes a better mattress.
The innovative designs and our investment in specialty equipment provides an ability to do things other manufacturers canāt easily duplicate.
You get the best materials available. If we canāt find something good enough, we create it ourselves.
You can buy with confidence. Estateā¢ Latex mattresses are made at our East Rutherford, NJ factory. Our quality control is 100%.
Every mattress is carefully built and thoroughly checked by proud people who truly care.
Powercoreā¢ Spring Mattress Units
The exclusive Powercoreā¢ Mattress Unit is the secret behind achieving a new level of comfort and true relaxation.
This is a new, better spring system. The individual spring design and placement, attachment, proper insulation between rows of coils and careful control of finished sizing make for a super durable and unusually comfortable spring unit.
A Powercoreā¢ Unit would provide a good nights sleep without an ounce of additional padding, but of course we add progressive layers of premium quality Talalay latex.
Designed for use with latex foam, all coils that make up a Powercoreā¢ unit are proprietary winds of ultra- high tensile strength extremely flexible steel wire.
Our wireās tensile strength is 20% more than wire used by the leading U.S. mass manufacturer. The coils are pre-loaded for strength and compressed into individual technical fabric pockets.
To provide better reaction and response to body pressure points throughout the unit, the coils feature more turns, more wire and more flexibility than any previous design.
The assembly and attachment of the springs into a complete innerspring unit is done by a CNC computer controlled robotic agglomerating machine.
The very specifics of our Powercore Plusā¢ unit are trade secrets (coil designs, assembly techniques etc.) that required us to develop our own machinery to keep this knowledge āin houseā.
[color=#ff0000][sup][sub]We welcome visitors, with appointments, on a tour of our East Rutherford factory where these are made to see the machines and craftsmen in operation.[/color[/sub][/sup]]
Talalay Latex Comfort Padding
The comfort padding are layers of pure, American made Talalay latex.
The Talalay latex process creates a more consistant padding material than latex using the Dunlop method.
Latex foam is naturally cool, non-toxic, anti-bacterial and allergen resistant.
Latex is a resilient support material and less prone to body impressions than petroleum based foams.
The border is built right into our mattress with a carefully fashioned foam encasement.
These arrangement are done to create mattresses with a traditionally firm, yet responsive feel.
Underneath the upholstery, our Powercoreā¢ Unit unobtrusively provides instant adjustment and progressive support for the user without external controls.
Environmental Facts
Absolutely no solvents are used in the construction and assembly of our Estateā¢ Latex mattresses.
The steel for the innersprings is mostly post-industrial recycled and is 100% recyclable.
Our mattresses are Fire Retardant, designed and tested to meet CSPC standard 1633 without any use of chemical treatments,
All foams used are US or Canadian made and meet very strict manufacturing standards for HAP and VOC emissions.
Our foams are made without the use of PBDE, CFCās, mercury, lead or prohibited phthalates or other harmful substances.
While no mattress is completely emissions free, ours should be as low as any in the marketplace.
Customers can check foam manufacturer websites such as Carpenter (http://www.carpenter.com/), Hickory (http://www.hickorysprings.com/2008/Foam.html) and Latex International (http://www.latexfoam.com/) for more foam specific information.[/size][/size]
Hi Math,
Itās somewhat co-incidental that you are mentioning them now because I just got off the phone with them a few minutes ago (after trying to confirm some information for several weeks) and unfortunately I confirmed that they donāt disclose the quality/density of the polyfoam or memory foam in their mattresses which means that there is no way to know with any certainty whether there are any weak links in their mattresses or make meaningful comparisons with other mattresses. This is really unfortunate and is somewhat unusual for smaller independent manufacturers who normally want to educate their customers about the quality of the materials in their mattresses and help them make meaningful comparisons with other mattresses because they know that consumers that understand the importance of this type of information will recognize that their mattresses are higher quality and better value choices than their mainstream competitors. Having said that ā¦ some of the earlier posts in this topic seem to indicate that they provided foam density information to some of the members here so perhaps they will do this if you are there in person.
As you can see in the information in the mattress shopping tutorial (which is the first place I would start your research) ā¦ I personally wouldnāt consider any mattress where I wasnāt able to confirm the quality of the materials inside it (see this article and the guidelines here).
You can see my thoughts about the Consumer Reports and and their mattress recommendations in post #2 here. This is one area where they have completely dropped the ball.
They made their own mattresses when they started and for many years and then a few years ago they started to contract them out to another manufacturer (I confirmed this at the time) and they are now back to making their own again in their own factory. Iāve added ā¦
ā¦to the forum posts that indicated that they werenāt making their own to bring them up to date. Like almost all mattress manufacturers (with very few exceptions) they donāt make their own foams. A forum search on Charles P Rogers will also bring up more information and feedback about them (and the posts that were edited).
Once you reach step 3 in the tutorial and are ready to start testing mattresses ā¦ then the better options and possibilities Iām aware of in the Northern New Jersey area are listed in post #7 here (including comments about Charles P Rogers).
I also wouldnāt get too caught up in numbers either since it can become very confusing and lead to information overwhelm and often āparalysis by analysisā. While itās always important to know the quality and durability of the materials in a mattress (post #13 here has more about the important parts of the āvalueā of a mattress purchase) ā¦ the simplest āshortcutā in mattress shopping is to focus on dealing with smaller independent manufacturers that are knowledgeable, experienced, and completely transparent about the materials in their mattresses and either sell factory direct or through better sleep shops. Working with a manufacturer/retailer that puts your legitimate best interests above their own and already knows what you would otherwise need to learn can be one of the most important parts of a successful and āeasyā purchase.
Phoenix
PS: I deleted one of your posts which was a duplicate.
I have had a Charles P Rogers Day Bed for about 10 years. Last year, I ordered a new mattress because the old one was beginning to feel lumpy. I was disappointed to find that the new one was still lumpy, and sloped in towards the middle. The mattress is extremely lumpy (it feels hard and sharp in some areas) and it continues to slope in towards the middle, making it uneven. The mattress is extremely uncomfortable. I absolutely would not recommend for anyone to ever purchase a Charles P Roger mattress. I wish I had taken my appx $400 anywhere else.
Hi CVS1991,
Iām sorry to hear about your experience.
While it would be fairly common for a mattress in your budget range to be uncomfortable because there may not be a lot of padding over the springs or even to develop some soft spots or sagging because it may not use high quality materials ā¦ it also sounds like you could have an issue with the support system under the mattress which could be the cause of your sag or the reason your mattress is sloping towards the middle.
It would be worthwhile trying your mattress on the floor to see if there are still issues with the sloping and if there is still an issue I would also talk to Charles P. Rogers about a warranty claim because your mattress may be defective.
Phoenix