Chattanooga, TN area help please

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
11

IE WinXP is letting me upload the photos - one is of the American Handcrafted price tag, the other is Bed Boss. The only density reference is on the Bed Boss tag, which states “3-4 lb” density for the two topmost layers totaling 4 inches.

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11" Eurotop with 4 inches of 3-4 pound semi-open breathable visco-elastic memory foam
-Soft blended bamboo fiber cover with aloe vera treatment, wave stitch
-1.0 inch layer of heat dissipating bamboo infused visco quilted into cover
-3.0 inch layer of visco memory foam
-7 inch base layer of higher resiliency poly foam

Smaller text reads “The bed that redefines affordable comfort with a distinctive euro top design. Bamboo infused memory foam is more breathable and dissipates up to 80% more heat than Temp-foam. Our foam’s semi open cells are more porous than Temp-foam while support is above or equal to others’ 5 lb density foam. The memory foam’s recovery of 4-6 seconds is the optimal balance of support and pressure relief.”

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Support: 4" Gel, 2" Comfort Foam, 6" HD Base Foam
Warranty: 15 year

12

Hi mb321,

I would want to know the specific density information for each layer (see this article) … not just a “range” for the layers overall. If there is more than “about an inch or so” of lower quality/density materials in the mattress then it could be a weak link in the mattress in terms of durability. The information you attached isn’t specific enough to make any meaningful comments about the quality of the materials and I would ask them about the density of all 3 layers (two memory foam and one polyfoam).

All the rest of the information is just “marketing stuff”.

Phoenix

13

I will contact both and provide a follow-up when I receive responses.

14

Hi mb321,

Sounds good … and I’m looking forward to finding out what they tell you.

Phoenix

15

Response below about the American Handcrafted foam mattress - surprisingly it did come from a Dutch Craft representative.

Thanks for your interest in the Silver Bay. Here are the specs.
2" preserve 4 lb gel infused memory foam 12ild
2" 4 lb memory foam 15ild
7" 1.8 lb foam core with a 24 ild
Hope this helps!
Thanks!

Eli Schmucker

Dutch Craft Mattress Company
1012 Mitchell St.
Celina, Tn 38551
931-243-4425 Fax 931-243-4427
www.sleepdutchcraft.com

Also, a Bed Boss rep called me back. The specs for the Visco Heir ET are as stated:

  1. 1" bamboo infused visco top layer - 1-2 lb density
  2. 3" visco memory foam middle layer - 3-4 lb density
  3. 7" base foam - 4-5 lb density

She did not have numbers for ILD.
She also didn’t sound sure about density for the top layer.
I asked why she provided ranges instead of exact numbers. She said because in the manufacturing process the materials are liquid before pouring into a mold so they just have ranges. Not sure I get that, but she didn’t know any further information.

Third, I contacted InnerSpace Mattresses in Dalton, GA about local retailers. Their answer is below. It sounds like they are primarily an internet retailer.
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: innerspacemattresses.com/index.php

We do not sell direct, but you are welcome to stop by our warehouse in
Dalton and we can show you some of the items we carry. Is there something in
particular you were interested in?

Thanks,

Micah

16

Hi mb321,

[quote]mb321’s Avatar

Response below about the American Handcrafted foam mattress - surprisingly it did come from a Dutch Craft representative.

Thanks for your interest in the Silver Bay. Here are the specs.
2" preserve 4 lb gel infused memory foam 12ild
2" 4 lb memory foam 15ild
7" 1.8 lb foam core with a 24 ild
Hope this helps!
Thanks![/quote]

I guess that the “American Handcrafted” is the name of a line of mattresses made by Dutch Craft rather than the name of the manufacturer of the mattress.

In any case … the specs you listed don’t have any weak links in terms of durability and would be fine for most people that weren’t in higher weight ranges (you can see the more specific guidelines I would suggest in post #4 here).

[quote]1. 1" bamboo infused visco top layer - 1-2 lb density
2. 3" visco memory foam middle layer - 3-4 lb density
3. 7" base foam - 4-5 lb density

She did not have numbers for ILD.
She also didn’t sound sure about density for the top layer.
I asked why she provided ranges instead of exact numbers. She said because in the manufacturing process the materials are liquid before pouring into a mold so they just have ranges. Not sure I get that, but she didn’t know any further information.[/quote]

These specs would be “questionable”. If you are given density specs that are in a range that is that wide (ranges of about 5% to 10% would be more normal) then I would assume that it was in the lower end of the range and 3" of 3 lb memory foam would generally be a weak link in a mattress and I would tend to choose mattresses that have a minimum of 4 lb density memory foam unless you are in the lowest budget ranges or durability and the useful life of a mattress isn’t a significant issue for you (such as buying a mattress for temporary use of for a guest bedroom that is only used occasionally).

It’s also very unlikely that the polyfoam in the 7" base layer is 4 - 5 lb density since this would normally be in the density range for memory foam not polyfoam. If the only lower density layer was the 1" on top then it would be inside the guidelines I normally suggest which are “about an inch or so of lower density or unknown materials in the upper layers of a mattress” but with the lower density memory foam in the 3" layer below that and with the questionable specs in the base layer (which doesn’t give me confidence that the person that supplied the information you received are knowledgeable about foam specs in general) the durability risks involved in buying this mattress would be higher than I would be comfortable with.

ILD numbers are “comfort specs” and aren’t important to know because your testing will tell you whether a mattress is a good match for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences). With memory foam ILD numbers aren’t particularly meaningful anyway because they can change with temperature, humidity, and the length of time the memory foam is compressed and they don’t compare well as a measure of firmness/softness to ILD numbers for other types of foam.

[quote]Third, I contacted InnerSpace Mattresses in Dalton, GA about local retailers. Their answer is below. It sounds like they are primarily an internet retailer.
www.innerspacemattresses.com/index.php

We do not sell direct, but you are welcome to stop by our warehouse in
Dalton and we can show you some of the items we carry. Is there something in
particular you were interested in?[/quote]

I don’t know how I managed to link innerspacemattresses who are a wholesaler and usually sold online as you mentioned. It was supposed to be in Trenton. I’ve edited the listing and thanks for bringing it to my attention :).
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: Furniture, Mattresses, Appliances, and Electronics in Trenton, Chattanooga and Jasper GA | Gross Furniture

Phoenix

17

Thanks for the feedback - I will put the Dutch Craft model on my strong possibility list. I plan to stop in Ringgold/Fort Oglethorpe and look at some of those retailers soon and will post on what I find there.

18

Hi mb321,

As always … I’m looking forward to your feedback after your visit :slight_smile:

Phoenix

19

Hi, I went to Ringgold, GA and Fort Oglethorpe, GA today to check out four stores.

  1. Linderman’s Furniture - Ringgold - mostly lower end range ($800 for a king), two memory foam models, a Bed Boss and Spirit Sleep.
  2. Cochran’s Furniture - Ringgold - very nice store with Jamison line, and I wish I could like their mattresses, but so far the only foam models I’ve found are quite firm, and I haven’t found a liking for latex either.
  3. Slaten Discount Furniture - Fort O - I talked to this guy on the phone first and he led me to think they had several memory foam models, but they had just one lower end “foam” model by Capital Mattress and I wouldn’t call it “memory”. He did have three nice innerspring Therapedic models.
  4. The Mattress Connection - Fort O - the sign outside said “Mattress Direct” - but I did match the phone number so it’s the same store. They had Symbol models among others. Bedding had “Sterling & Thomas” pillows and runners, which confused me. They had one model that interested me:
  • The mattress is made by Symbol but is listed as made by a company called “Master Craft Sleep Products” in Jasper, AL. The model of the mattress is “Freedom” and is a “13 inch Gel Memory Foam”. The sales person said it contains a layer of latex but I’m not sure that’s correct. I asked her if she knew the layer heights and densities in the model and she said no. So, I will call this manufacturer in Jasper on Monday. Her excuse was “It’s a new model so we don’t have that information yet.” Not sure that I believe that.

I’ll update if I can get in contact with anyone regarding this model.

20

Hi mb321,

Thanks for the feedback on the Ringgold and Fort Oblethorpe stores … I appreciate it :slight_smile:

Capital tends to make lower budget mattresses where the foam quality/density would reflect the lower price but if they can provide the specs of the Therapedic mattresses (see this article) then they may be worth considering for those that prefer this type of mattress.

Sterling & Thomas is a line that is made by American Bedding which is now owned by Corsicana but it’s not so unusual for a store to use runners that have a different name from the manufacturers of the mattress they are on.

Whether they had the information available or not … it’s the job of a good manufacturer to call the factory to find out the information you need to make an informed choice and they should have offered to do so rather than having a customer do their job for them. In some cases a factory will only provide this information to their retailers. If you can find out the information you need about the Symbol 13 inch Gel Memory Foam and list it on the forum then I’d be happy to share my thoughts about the quality of the materials inside it. A quick way to check whether there is any latex in a mattress would be to check the law tag which lists the type of materials in the mattress by percentage weight (although it won’t tell you the type or blend of the latex or the thickness of the layer). Master Craft Sleep Products is the Symbol factory that makes Symbol mattresses in your area.

Thanks again for the feedback.

Phoenix

21

Follow up on the Symbol mattress I found labeled “Master Craft Sleep Products” “Freedom 13” Gel and Latex" model.

  1. I called the Master Craft Sleep Products factory in Jasper, AL. The guy who answered the phone was not friendly and would not answer my questions. He said he makes the mattress himself but did not know what kind of latex is in the mattress and then refused to answer any more questions.

  2. I called the sales person at Mattress Connection back and asked her if she could find information on the mattress. She said the display tag arrived this week and gave me this information - it has four layers: 2" high density gel foam, 2" latex, 2" memory foam, then 7" furniture grade foam. I asked her if she had any information on the type of latex - no. Did she have any information on the densities of the foams - no. And also “densities are scientific so customers don’t care about that stuff”. She also suggested that I go online and do some research on memory foam mattresses so I could see that they don’t release information about materials typically, and that if the price of the mattress is higher, it implies the mattress has higher quality materials. She said the “Freedom” model is store specific and that there maybe a similar model to review on the Symbol website, but I could not find anything like it on their website.

I’m pretty bummed because that model was the most comfortable to me so far.

So, after three Saturday afternoons and visiting approx 10 different stores in three different cities, I have one Dutch Craft model on my possibility list. Which leads me to think I’m going to have to order something online that has a full return policy if I decide I don’t want the Dutch Craft, and due to that store’s/brand’s no return policy, I’m nervous about buying something without a trial period.

My conclusion is for memory foam mattresses in Chattanooga area - if you don’t want to pay for Tempurpedic, you have either Jamison or Dutch Craft, otherwise you are SOL.

22

Hi mb321,

[quote]1. I called the Master Craft Sleep Products factory in Jasper, AL. The guy who answered the phone was not friendly and would not answer my questions. He said he makes the mattress himself but did not know what kind of latex is in the mattress and then refused to answer any more questions.

  1. I called the sales person at Mattress Connection back and asked her if she could find information on the mattress. She said the display tag arrived this week and gave me this information - it has four layers: 2" high density gel foam, 2" latex, 2" memory foam, then 7" furniture grade foam. I asked her if she had any information on the type of latex - no. Did she have any information on the densities of the foams - no. And also “densities are scientific so customers don’t care about that stuff”. She also suggested that I go online and do some research on memory foam mattresses so I could see that they don’t release information about materials typically, and that if the price of the mattress is higher, it implies the mattress has higher quality materials. She said the “Freedom” model is store specific and that there maybe a similar model to review on the Symbol website, but I could not find anything like it on their website.[/quote]

Unfortunately your experience is fairly typical in the industry. Most wholesale manufacturers aren’t set up to deal with consumers (and often don’t do a great job with consumer inquiries) and it’s also very common in the mainstream industry to encounter salespeople with very little knowledge who will tell you that “you don’t need to know that” only because they don’t know themselves. As sad as it may be … most people who spend more than about an hour or so on this site will know more meaningful information about mattresses than the large majority of people who sell them in the mainstream industry.

The Symbol Freedom mattresses aren’t “store specific” (see the bottom of this article) and are a new line of mattresses that Symbol has introduced that is available to any of their retailers.

Furniture grade foam typically refers to 1.8 lb polyfoam or higher (which would be a suitable density for a support layer) and latex is also a high quality and durable material (regardless of the type or blend) relative to other types of foam but I would want to know the density of the memory foam layers to make sure there are no weak links in the mattress and as you and others have discovered this can be difficult to find out with some manufacturers or retailers (see post #4 here for another example).

Just as a “tip” … it can be a good idea to call any store you plan to visit before actually going there to make sure they will provide you with the specs you will need (see this article) because it can be very frustrating to test mattresses at a store for PPP and find a good “match” only to discover that you can’t find out the quality/durability of the materials.

Both of these are more transparent than most other manufacturers and make some high quality mattresses that would be worth considering.

Phoenix

23

Thanks for the info on the Symbol mattresses. I contacted them via their website contact form - so if they reply I’ll post the info here.

If I decide to go to Nashville or Atlanta, I’ll definitely call first to ask questions and then eliminate the retailer if they are not knowledgeable on the phone, to save myself some time.

24

Hi mb321,

[quote]Not against driving to Nashville, Birmingham, Huntsville or Atlanta, but I’m not sure if I could get a mattress shipped at a reasonable cost, or returned if it didn’t work out.

If I decide to go to Nashville or Atlanta, I’ll definitely call first to ask questions and then eliminate the retailer if they are not knowledgeable on the phone, to save myself some time. [/quote]

You’ve probably seen these already but just in case you haven’t …

The Nashville, TN. list is here, the Birmingham, AL. list is here, the Huntsville, AL. list is here, and the Atlanta, GA. list is here.

Phoenix

25

Since the memory foams are usually shipped as a compressed object in a much smaller box, perhaps shipping from another nearby city would not be so bad - if the retailers are willing to handle it that way instead of using a delivery truck. I suppose I could buy just a foundation from a local store in chattanooga and then have the mattress portion shipped to me.

Problem is - this mattress buying project is taking several months (as I started on it this past spring and then shelved it due to frustration until a month ago) but a bedroom redecoration project is waiting on a bed purchase, and it’s getting silly to have a mattress purchase delay the project six months already.

  • I contacted Symbol twice via their email and website form and they did not respond
  • The owner of the mattress store that sells the mattress called me last night and was very nice, and sent me the spec sheet for the mattress which does not list any information on foam densities

My question is - does he know this info? Probably not. I don’t think Symbol is going to provide it to consumers or dealers.

26

Hi mb321,

Compressing a mattress for shipping through courier generally needs a roll pack machine which most local retailers wouldn’t have so they would need to deliver the mattress through a delivery service or a common carrier.

Yes … as long as the foundation was suitable for the mattress you purchased this would be fine. There are also good sources for foundations you can buy online (see the foundation post here for some of them).

It’s not likely that Symbol will provide this information to a consumer (see post #7 here).

I have talked with several retailers that have known the specs for their Symbol mattresses so at least in these cases they were able to find them out from the Symbol factory they were dealing with or from their rep. The store owner should at least be willing to call his rep or the factory to find out whatever he is able to but unfortunately many store owners or salespeople have little knowledge about mattress materials.

Buying a mattress without knowing the basic specs about the quality of the materials would be somewhat like buying a piece of furniture where the store wouldn’t tell you if it was made of particle board or real wool or buying a computer where the store wouldn’t provide you with the most basic information such as speed of the CPU or the size of the hard drive. The difference is that most furniture stores would know this (or at least would understand the importance of finding out) and most computer stores would understand that having basic information about the computer is an important part of the purchase while the majority of mattress stores seem to think that not being able to provide basic information about the quality of the materials inside a mattress they sell is somehow OK.

Phoenix

27

I asked the store manager to contact Symbol for the material quality information and type of latex used (either one is fine - but getting an answer would mean that they have the knowledge). Will update if I get a response.

Shipping a mattress long distance via delivery truck is probably going to not be worth the expense. I’ve had furniture shipped as part of larger shipments (truck was going from A to B anyway and had space in it) for less than $100 which would be fine. I think it would be more cost effective to go the online route with a return policy of going through another 10 store visits in three different cities 100-150 miles away.

28

Hi mb321,

I would always suggest calling any retailer or manufacturer you are planning to visit before you go there so you can confirm that they are willing and able to find out the information you would need about the materials in any mattress you may be interested in because this can save a great deal of time and frustration if you find a mattress that is a good match for you only to find out that you can’t find out the information you need about the quality/durability of the materials to make an informed choice (see this article).

If you know the materials and the types of mattresses you tend to prefer … and if there are no suitable local options … then I would agree with you that an online manufacturer or retailer that has the knowledge and experience to help “talk you through” which of their mattresses would likely be a good match for you and that has a good exchange or return policy would certainly be well worth considering … and can save a lot of time (and frustration) vs traveling longer distances.

Phoenix

29

I will look into the online options if local doesn’t work out - I have a list of 5 from conversations on this forum that sell a quality product.

The Symbol rep called me today and surprisingly gave me the information I asked for. Again this is for the “Freedom” model which is mentioned in an article that you linked to in a previous post in this thread as Symbol’s new line of memory foam mattresses.

2" High Density GEL Memory Foam - 4 lb density
2" Latex Foam - Dunlop latex
2" High Density Memory Foam - 3 lb density
7" High Density Support Core - 1.5 lb density

According to the rep, there are a lot of variations in stated foam qualities by manufacturers, and any published number has a tolerance of plus or minus a certain amount (he did not mention a specific %).

30

Hi mb321,

Thanks for listing the specs of the Freedom 13" gel memory foam mattress … I appreciate it.

It seems that they have reduced the quality/density of the materials compared to the previous G Gel versions that I believe had a 1.9 lb polyfoam base layer and used memory foam that was 4 lbs or higher. This is part of an overall trend with the larger manufacturers in the industry that often reduce the quality of the materials in their mattresses in an effort to increase profit margins or reduce prices to make their mattresses more attractive to customers that shop based on “comfort” or price without regard to the quality/durability of the materials in a mattress.

The upper layers are good quality and durable materials that would be suitable for most people (4 lb gel memory foam and Dunlop latex) but the bottom two layers are a little lower density than I would be comfortable with … especially if you are in a higher weight range or have a body type or sleeping position that is more likely to compress the deeper layers of the mattress (see the guidelines here). While deeper layers are not as likely to be the weak link of a mattress in terms of durability so having lower quality materials deeper in the mattress where the layers above them will absorb much of the compression forces from sleeping and can improve their durability … I would say this is “on the edge” in terms of the quality of materials that I would be comfortable with and I would make some very careful comparisons with other similar mattresses that are in a similar budget range that may have better quality and more durable materials.

Phoenix