Coming down the home stretch on a latex mattress purchase

Getting close to pulling the trigger on a latex mattress. My wife and I found a popular named brand latex mattresses at a natural bedding store that we really liked. Price was $3400 plus 6% sales tax for a total cost of $3600. Although the company would not provide ILD numbers, they do divulge the type of latex being used, the manufacturer who makes the latex, along with a basic firmness rating of Soft, Medium or Firm. Given this information I did some additional research and have come up with the a DIY design that I believe will come very close to the mattress in the store.
Store Design Mattress:
3" Support Layer - 100% natural Dunlop by Coco Latex or Latex Green in firm
3" Middle Layer - 100% natural Dunlop by Coco Latex or Latex Green in medium
3" Comfort Layer - 100% natural Talalay by Radium in medium

The design I came up with that I hope matches:
3" Support Layer - 100% natural Dunlop by Latex Green ILD 38
3" Middle Layer - 100% natural Dunlop by Latex Green ILD 28 - 31 or
100% natural Dunlop continuous pour by Mountain Top Foam ILD 32
3" Comfort Layer - 100% natural Talalay by Radium ILD 28 or
100% blended Talalay by Latex International/Talalay Global ILD 28

Mattress cover - zippered natural cotton cover quilted to wool

Total cost delivered will be between $1,158 and $1,237. I’ve been going over my numbers and have called the various online places to verify the prices and feel confident this price is accurate. I’m just having a hard time believing the price difference between my DYI mattress and the local store. The downside to a DYI mattress is that I won’t be able to return anything, Worse case is I have to buy another top layer to try for about $320 - $340. I’m pretty confident the two bottom layers will be fine.

I’ll provide an update when we finalize our decision.

Hi dsw61,

When you are testing a mattress locally then disclosing “comfort specs” such as ILD/IFD isn’t really necessary or an important part of transparency because with careful testing your body will tell you much more about whether any specific combination of layers or components are a good “match” for you relative to the mattress “as a whole” in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) than knowing the ILD/IFD of any individual layers regardless of what the actual numbers may. In other words … I would consider ILD/IFD information to be a legitimate part of what many manufacturers consider to be “proprietary” information.

They are probably also well aware that many of their customers may just be “showrooming” their mattresses and may be intending to purchase a similar mattress or combinations of layers and components online so they would have no reason to disclose ILD/IFD information to a potential customer. ILD/IFD itself is also only one of several factors or “specs” that will determine how soft or firm a layer or a mattress will feel to different people and can sometimes be more misleading than helpful (see post #4 here).

For most people though that aren’t particularly sensitive then “word ratings” would probably be “close enough” to approximate another mattress as long as the type and blend of latex and the thickness of each layer was the same and the cover (which can also have a significant effect on the feel and performance of a mattress) was also very similar. Having said that … for those that are more sensitive to smaller differences between two mattresses and are closer to the “princess and the pea” than the “I can sleep on anything” end of the sensitivity range then they may need to “match” each layer and component more closely.

These certainly sound like reasonable approximations although I would be a little bit careful with the Continuous Pour latex from Mountaintop foam because their ILD ratings may not match the ILD ratings of molded Dunlop (see post #8 here) and they also have a different “feel” that is somewhat in between Dunlop and Talalay as well.

I’m looking forward to an update with your comments and feedback once you’ve finalized everything and have had a chance to sleep on your DIY mattress. Hopefully your initial choices will be a good “match” for you in terms of comfort, firmness,and PPP without needing to make any additions or replacements :slight_smile:

Phoenix

The latex mattress industry is definitely convoluted. Lets say a consumer wants a bed with a configuration that has 3 - 3" layers; which is fairly common. The first two layers will be Medium over Firm natural Dunlop from Latex Green. You call five different companies and here’s what you’re are likely going to be told:
Company 1: Medium 25- 28 ILD Firm 29 - 32 ILD
Company 2: Medium 30 - 32 ILD Firm 38 - 40 ILD
Company 3:: Medium 26 - 30 ILD Firm 31 - 35 ILD
Company 4 : Medium 31 ILD Firm 35 ILD
Company 5: Medium 28 ILD Firm 38 ILD

Makes it really hard to try and duplicate a mattress sold at a retail store on your first attempt. I was prepared to buy the first layers from “company 5” because they had the best prices; but now I’m not so sure. Have to decide something soon though.

Hi dsw61,

It’s not just the latex part of the industry that doesn’t have standardized firmness ratings. There are no “standard” definitions or consensus of opinions for firmness ratings in the whole industry and different manufacturers can rate their mattresses very differently than others so a mattress that one manufacturer rates as being a specific firmness could be rated very differently by another manufacturer. Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that feels firm for one person can feel like “medium” for someone else or even “soft” for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they “rate” a mattress as well (see post #15 here) so different people can also have very different opinions on how two mattresses compare in terms of firmness. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science.

I would also keep in mind that ILD is only one of several variables or “specs” that will determine how soft or firm an individual layer or a mattress “as a whole” will feel to different people (see post #4 here). In addition to this the ILD of different materials or different types and blends of latex also aren’t always directly comparable to each other (see post #6 here) so using the ILD of a particular layer or combination of layers as a reliable indication of how firm a mattress may feel to you compared to another mattress with a different combination of layers can sometimes be more misleading than helpful.

Some manufacturers that make molded 100% natural Dunlop don’t test their cores for ILD and use density as a firmness rating instead and using density may be a more reliable way to approximate the firmness of one 100% natural Dunlop layer vs another (assuming they are both 100% natural Dunlop made in a mold and are the same thickness). The “word ratings” they use aren’t nearly as important as the actual firmness of the layers they have available.

You can get a sense of how the density of 100% natural Dunlop made by Latex Green relates to ILD in post #2 here and other manufacturers would be in a similar range although they may use different word ratings for the same density or ILD.

When you are testing a mattress locally then disclosing “comfort specs” such as ILD/IFD isn’t really necessary or an important part of transparency because with careful testing your body will tell you much more about whether any specific combination of layers or components are a good “match” for you relative to the mattress “as a whole” in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) than knowing the ILD/IFD of any individual layers regardless of what the actual numbers or word ratings may be. In other words … I would consider ILD/IFD information to be a legitimate part of what many manufacturers consider to be “proprietary” information.

Many brick and mortar stores that sell component latex mattresses are also well aware that many of their customers may just be “showrooming” their mattresses and may be intending to purchase a similar mattress or combinations of layers and components online so they would have little reason to disclose ILD/IFD information to a potential customer when it won’t help them decide which mattress would be the best “match” for them anyway.

When you can’t test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help “talk you through” the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and “feel” of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best “match” for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences or to other mattresses that they are familiar with than anyone else.

While they may not all have the same opinions for many different reasons … a good online retailer or manufacturer will generally make suggestions that they honestly believe have the best chance of success based on the information you provide them when you talk to them on the phone because this is in both your own and their best interests (mattress returns are very costly for a retailer or manufacturer) but at the end of the day the only way to know for certain whether any specific mattress or combination of layers is a good match for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP will be based on your own careful testing and/or your own personal experience so if you can’t test a specific mattress in person then the options you have available after a purchase to either exchange the mattress or individual layers or components or return the mattress for a refund (and any costs involved) would generally become a more important part of your personal value equation just in case (and in spite of the “best efforts” of everyone involved) a mattress you purchase doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for.

I’m looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding.

Phoenix

All the components for my DIY latex mattress will come from three companies listed in the “Members List” on this site. I hope they are all still in good standing. :slight_smile: I won’t be returning anything so as long as they ship what’s advertised on their websites, I should be good.

Hi dsw61,

The members list is always up to date and they are all in “good standing”.

I’m looking forward to finding out the specifics of your DIY design and of course how you like it once you’ve received everything and put it all together.

I also hope you “get it right” the first time without needing to return or exchange anything :slight_smile:

Phoenix

Looks like my first layer is going to be Latex Green ILD 38. The comfort layer will be Radium Talalay 28 ILD. Trying to decide between Latex Green Dunlop 28 ILD or 31 ILD for the middle layer. All layers are 3 inches. The consensus from talking to the on-line mattress companies is most people can’t tell the difference of a couple of ILD, which I believe is accurate… Just trying to decide if I should err towards being marginally softer or firmer. Some Savvy Rest info I stumbled on makes me think their medium Dunlop that I’m trying to match is on the medium firm side; with an ILD range that starts at 31… Any thoughts would be appreciated…

Hi dsw61,

Latex Green 100% natural Dunlop that has a density of about 80 kg/m3 would be a medium firm layer and would have an ILD range of somewhere between 28 - 33 ILD (see here). The ILD would also vary from the top to the bottom and and at different points across the surface as well so a 28 ILD layer and a 31 ILD layer may both be the same firmness anyway. Latex doesn’t come in exact ILD’s (only ranges) and I would also agree that most people wouldn’t feel any difference between 2 layers that are only 3 ILD apart even if it was the top layer (which is the one you would tend to “feel” the most) and in deeper layers it would be even less likely that you would feel any difference.

Phoenix

Thanks Phoenix. I asked “Savvy rest” for the weight of their queen 3" Dunlop medium and firm, and they came back with 51 and 54 lbs; which when I do the calculations seems way off to me, unless I’m calculating it wrong.

Hi dsw61,

They seem off to me as well if they are referring to the total weight of a layer that is 60" x 80" x 3".

It’s possible that they mean 5.1 lbs/ft3 and 5.4 lbs/ft3 which would “translate” into 81.7 kg/m3 and 86.5 kg/m3 repectively but of course I don’t know.

I would also keep in mind that Savvy Rest uses CoCo latex for their Dunlop and if you are comparing 100% natural Dunlop made by different manufacturers the same density may not be exactly the same firmness because of differences in their formulations. Because of variations in ILD with Dunlop (it only comes in ranges and not in exact ILD’s) and because of variations between different manufacturers the best you will be able to do is make reasonable approximations that for most people would be close enough and it will be a waste of time trying to make “exact” comparisons.

Phoenix

Looks like the last decision I have to make is the zippered mattress cover. For those who have bought complete latex beds from places like Sleepez, Flexuscomfort and Mattressess.net., how do you like their cotton/wool quilted covers?

I went down the very deep flame retardant rabbit hole last night. Wow, what an education that was. I’m either going to go with a cotton/wool quilted cover or perhaps one of the covers from DIY Natural Bedding . This one here is just 100% cotton with no wool: Our Manufacturer Memberships :: The Mattress Underground

and this one sounds pretty interesting because it also serves as a water barrier:

Hi dsw61,

Hopefully some of the members that have latex mattresses with wool quilted covers will see your post and share their comments although I would also keep in mind that their preferences may not be the same as yours. There is also more about the pros and cons of a wool quilted cover in post #6 here.

Phoenix

Was going to get a zippered cotton/wool cover, but after researching mattress protectors, I’m not sure that’s the best way to go. I like the idea of having wool in either the zippered cover or the protector; but I don’t see a benefit in having wool in both. So either a pure cotton zippered cover without wool and a cotton/wool protector…or…a cotton/wool zippered cover and a 100% cotton protector. I don’t need a water proof protector… Just something to protect the mattress from normal body perspiration and oils.

Wondering if one way is better than the other. I do like the idea of being able to easily remove a mattress protector with wool in it and take it outside to air out.

On a side note, I ordered the bottom two layers today. Dunlop Latex Green ILD 38 and Dunlop Latex Green ILD 28 -30. Was going to order Radium Talalay ILD 28 for the top layer, but the two places I talked to today suggested I consider going with ILD 22 - 24; so I’m going to sleep on it.

Hi dsw61,

It would be a preference choice that would really depend on your own specific needs and preferences. I would keep in mind that a mattress protector and a mattress cover are completely different products that have different functions and will each have a different effect on the feel and performance of a mattress (even if they both use similar materials) so I would choose each of them based on your own specific needs and preferences and on their own merits without regard to what you choose for the other one.

Phoenix

FIrst two 3" layers of latex were delivered yesterday…38ish ILD and 30ish ILD Latex Green 100% natural. Slept on them last night using only a mattress protector and sheet., in order to get an idea what ILD we want for the top layer. I’ve never slept on latex before so the night was a learning experience.

I didn’t wake up thinking I had just slept on some magical mattress that was going to lead to endless nights of blissful sleep. However I did wake up with a new appreciation for the properties of latex. My concern when ordering the 38 ILD and 30 ILD was that they were going to feel. “hard”. because both are considered to be “firm”, with 38 ILD being borderline “extra firm”. IMO neither one felt hard or anything approaching hard… I would describe it as soft to the touch, which had me a little concerned that it was going to be too soft. After laying down on it though it was very supportive. Basically, the ILDs make a lot more sense to me now. The ILDs are typically measured at 25% and 40% compression. When I touch the latex to get an idea how it feels, I’m not compressing it so it feels kind of soft. However as you start applying more pressure, it begins to firm up, but not in a way that feels hard. During the night I always felt supported, but never really felt any pressure points; and this is on a base configuration that would be considered firm.

The inner spring mattresses that I’ve laid on that are labeled as firm; actually feel hard to me. Not so with the latex. Anyways, the comments I’ve read that describe latex as pushing back more as more weight is applied, makes a lot more sense to me now.

My wife did tell me this morning that her left hip didn’t hurt this morning for the first time in a while. I’m a little stiff around my rib cage, but that is probably do to getting the latex upstairs and on the foundation :slight_smile:

Probably the biggest surprise is that the latex layers are a full 60x80, whereas our current queen inner spring mattress is more like 57x76. The additional couple of inches in each direction makes a noticeable difference.

Will probably stick to my original plan and order 3" Talalay ILD 28 for the top layer. Still can’t decide on the zippered cover. I’ve narrowed it down to these two:

(need to scroll down to the “Natural Cover” section)

If anyone has any thoughts on these two covers, I’m all ears. I’m not looking for “right or wrong” guidence, but just some general preferences that others may have. I will also be buying a new mattress protector.

Hi dsw61,

Thanks for the update and for taking the time to share your comments and feedback. It certainly sounds like you are making some good progress :slight_smile:

Most of the ILD’s you will see in North America are measured at 25% compression although the ILD of different types and blends of latex aren’t really directly comparable to each other (see post #6 here).

While different manufacturers can use different “word ratings” for their latex layers … most people would consider 30 ILD to be more in a medium range than firm.

ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: diynaturalbedding.com/product/knit-t...gots-organic-cotton/

I may have linked this in a previous reply but there is more about the pros and cons of a wool quilted cover vs a thinner and more stretchy knit cover post #6 here.

You may have seen this already but just in case there is more about the pros and cons of different types of mattress protectors and some examples of each of them in post #89 here.

I’m looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding for your final design.

Phoenix

Thanks for your last post Phoenix. I’ve been to the links you highlighted, but went back and reread them to refresh my memory. Still not sure which cover I want to buy. Do you have a preference? What would you do if you were me? I’m sure I would be happy with either one, but I’m curious as to what others think or have experienced.

Hi dsw61,

I or some of the more knowledgeable members of the site can certainly help you to narrow down your options, help you focus on better quality/value choices that are available to you either locally or online, help you identify any lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress relative to your weight that you may be considering, act as a fact check, answer many of the specific questions you may have along the way that don’t involve what you will “feel” on a mattress, and help with “how” to choose but only you can decide which specific combination of materials and components is “best for you” or which ones you would likely prefer regardless of whether anyone else (including me) would have the same criteria or circumstances or would make the same choice.

On a forum like this where I am the moderator and answer most of the questions and posts on the site … my own subjective personal preferences would carry too much weight or “influence” and be much too likely to be “translated” into a specific suggestion or recommendation that was somehow “better” and my own specific needs and preferences may be very different from yours.

Once you know the pros and cons of each of them (which are based on many people’s experience) … I would make your choice based on whether the more “relaxed” surface feel and temperature regulation benefits of having a wool quilted cover are more or less important to you than the benefits of a thinner more stretchy knit cover that would “allow” more of the feel and resiliency and contouring ability of the latex underneath it to “come through”.

I would also choose your top layer before making your choice about the cover (which would be the last component I would purchase).

Phoenix

After sleeping on the 38 ILD and 30 ILD layers for several nights I decided to order a 22 -24 ILD all natural Talalay 3" top layer. made by Radium. I’'m a little concerned that it might be a little soft, but the overwhelming consensus by the online folks was to go with the soft rather than the 28 ILD medium. I feel good though that I was able to find a soft that was above the 18 - 19 ILD that seems to be what is commonly sold for soft Talalay. My understanding is that Radium has target ILD numbers for their natural latex of 18, 23, 28; for the firmness range I was looking at for the top layer. 23 seems like a good compromise between what some are selling as soft (19) and medium.(28).

Also decided to go with the all natural knit cotton/wool quilted ticking/cover. Couldn’t resist after they agreed to sell me the matching cover they use for their slatted foundations. I’m building my own foundation and was going to have to buy some fabric to cover it in, so this saves me a step. Just hope the foundations they sell are true to size, because mine is going to be exactly 60" x 80" and 5.5" high, which is what their low profile version.is suppose to be.

Still shopping for a decent all natural mattress protector. Those things are a little pricey at around $170 for a queen.

Hi dsw61,

Thanks for the update.

It sounds like you are making some great choices and it’s good to hear that you will also have “matching” mattress and foundation covers as well but of course the real test is sleeping on them and I’m looking forward to your feedback once you’ve put all the components in your sleeping system together and had the chance to sleep on them.

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You’re certainly right that wool quilted cotton mattress protectors are generally more costly than other types of mattress protectors that are available because the materials they use are more costly. You’ve probably seen this already but there is more about the pros and cons of different types of mattress protectors and some examples of each of them in post #89 here.

Phoenix