Hi Phoenix & others,
I am narrowing down our mattress search. We are looking for latex-free without chemical FRs. Preferably as low VOCs as is possible.
What do you think about the options listed below?
The first two are very competitively priced, but contain polyurethane foams. The last one is completely organic, and the most expensive.
The last two are also the most firm and I will plan to use a topper (or two!)
Thank you in advance!!!
Hi buttercupbetty,
Remember to start with the tutorial post to evaluate different mattresses 
since youâre starting over, remember to follow the basic steps. Youâre trying to evaluate for PPP, and itâs going to be a bit more difficult this go around since youâre eliminating potential matching beds based on materials.
https://forum.mattressunderground.com/t/how-to-look-for-and-find-the-best-mattress-for-you-read-first
Iâd make sure Iâd look at the price of toppers if you are pre-planning the need for one. I have a 3" wool topper, and I can say, based on your budget, a good wool topper can easily consume 1/4 to 1/2 your budget. Also, while on the topic, youâre best to try the topper in parallel with the mattress when testing PPP, especially if you think itâs a âdone dealâ that youâre going to do that.
If youâre considering allowing polyfoam, thatâs a whole different series of options ⌠The safety cert for polyfoam (and memory foam) is usually CertiPUR, but sometimes Oeko-tex 100 is used. Those standards test for various chemicals and, in theory, protect you from any harmful chemicals via off gassing and some other kinds of exposure. In any event, if youâre considering polyfoam then thereâs about a billion different mattresses you could chose from 
(ok maybe not a billion, but all the all-foam mattresses, all memory foam, all spring with foam, etc.) Allowing polyfoam or memory foam dramatically increases the number of options available to you.
You might need a prescription to get a bed made without chemical FRs, which may be an option in addition to a mattress with a non chemical FR barrier. You might want to get that proactively.
To evaluate the durability of the mattresses, especially those with polyfoam or memory foam, you need to know the thickness and density of the foam of all layers, top down.
See #1. Remember to go back to the starting point for evaluating a mattress.
Good luck and have fun
Hi buttercupbetty,
With the Mulberry and the Laurel I would want to know about the density of the polyfoam in the mattress and because of its importance to you I would also want to know the details of their fire barrier. There are several types of âinherentâ fire barriers and these may be a viscose / polyester (PET) type rather than a viscose / silica type (the polyester may include chemicals in its manufacturing that you may not be comfortable with although they would generally be considered to be âsafeâ but it would be difficult to find out the specifics of the polyester).
The two sided innerspring / cotton / wool by Therapedic at Bedrooms and More wouldnât have any weak links in the mattress but as you mentioned an innerspring / natural fiber mattress tends to be firmer than a foam mattress and will develop some some natural impressions or ânestingâ and become firmer over time as the natural fibers compress. The âfeelâ of these types of mattresses will also be affected bu the specifics of the innerspring system they use. Again ⌠because of your concern for any chemicals in a mattress I would want to know that there were no chemicals used in the production or manufacturing of the wool and the cotton (cotton especially uses more pesticides in itâs production than any other agricultural crop so it may be important to make sure itâs organic or at least pesticide and chemical free). There are some very high quality and ânon chemicalâ wools available that arenât certified organic but use organic farming and production methods so if the wool was from that type of source (such as eco wool) then an organic certification wouldnât be as important but I would also would also want to know what type of fire barrier it uses.
The organic spring mattress from Holy lamb also has no weak links in the mattress and there would be no concerns about any of the materials in terms of any chemicals in the mattress.
Of course how each of the mattresses feel and perform in terms of PPP (either by themselves or with a topper) would be a significant part of their value to you outside of the materials themselves. I would also try as much as possible to test any mattress / topper combination you are considering in person so you donât have the uncertainty of trying to choose a topper without being able to try it in person or at least you would have experience with a very similar topper.
Phoenix
Great points!
Thanks dn~
Would Bedrooms And More reveal the specs of the polyfoam? What density would I be looking for? For longevity? For lowest toxicity risk?
Seattle Mattress called Therapedic to get me more information about quantities of wool & cotton in their Kai mattress. They also asked about the organic vs non. Laurie apparently told Tony that their (regular) cotton has very little pesticides. Iâm wondering if she means that itâs simply not certified? I guess I can inquire more thoroughly. Since organic raises the price by about 50%! So hard to predict adverse reactions in advance. As I learned from my prior latex mattress experience ~
thank you!
Hi buttercupbetty,
I would think so. I wouldnât buy a mattress if I didnât know the density of the polyfoam inside it (density is the single biggest factor in the durability of a polyfoam and memory foam).
For durability and longevity I would look for a minimum of 1.8 lb density in a one sided mattress and 1.5 lb density in a two sided mattress (if you flip and rotate it). Tufting will make the comfort layers more durable as well. Higher density than these minimums would be more durable yet.
Density has no relationship to toxicity. All polyfoam and memory foam is made primarily from petrochemicals so I would make sure the polyfoam was CertiPur certified for harmful substances and VOCâs. For most people this would be âsafe enoughâ but there are some people (particularly with multiple chemical sensitivities or MCS) who are more comfortable avoiding polyfoam and memory foam completely.
I would have no way to know this. In the case of cotton though itâs among the most heavily sprayed crops on earth so if pesticide residues are a concern I would make sure it was organic.
Phoenix
HI Phoenix,
Thank you for simplifying the important points for me (again!). At this point, I am really impressed with this company:
http://www.theorganicmattressstore.com/wj-southard.html
They sell an (almost) identical bed to Soaring Heart and Holy Lamb Organics. The manufacturer is WJ Southard in Syracuse, NY. Iâm guessing that youâre familiar with them?
And I think youâre right that ORGANIC might be worth it for us. It certainly seems like a high quality mattress. And it has a 25 year warranty. We will lay on this model next week.
ANDâŚthe company listed above is including a wool comforter (or puddle pad) and TWO wolly bolas pillows with every mattress purchase! Thatâs about a $650 value :cheer:
Happy Holiday!
Hi buttercupbetty,
[quote]Thank you for simplifying the important points for me (again!). At this point, I am really impressed with this company:
www.theorganicmattressstore.com/wj-southard.html
They sell an (almost) identical bed to Soaring Heart and Holy Lamb Organics. The manufacturer is WJ Southard in Syracuse, NY. Iâm guessing that youâre familiar with them?[/quote]
Yes ⌠WJ Southard is a good company that makes some very high quality mattresses using good construction methods and are completely transparent about the materials they use. You can see some of my thoughts about them in post #2 here.
The Soaring Heart mattresses are made by them as well and the Waverly and the Archetype (along with this mattress at Soaring Heart) appear to be quite similar (although not necessarily the same).
I would certainly consider any mattress that they make as a good quality option but I would keep in mind that the mattresses you are considering may be âsimilar but differentâ (I would talk to them to find out if they are the same) and there is always some risk involved in purchasing a mattress that you havenât tested in person (either by itself or with a specific mattress / topper combination). The Waverly is more costly than the Archetype at Holy Lamb (if you pick the mattress up at their showroom because shipping isnât included) but as you mentioned they are also including some extras which may make up for the possible additional risk of a long distance purchase for you.
All of these are certainly good quality options as long as you are confident that they would be a good match in terms of PPP.
Phoenix
The funny this is that The Waverly doesnât show up on WJ Southardâs website (http://www.wjsouthard.com). Is that simply because âThe Waverlyâ is The Organic Mattress Storeâs (OMS) name for The Archetype?
The Archetype at Holy Lamb is $1900 + tax. Additional charges to ship & I donât think it would fit in our van.
The Waverly is $1949, including tax & shipping & the puddle pad & the wolly bolas pillows. Plus, they give an additional 3% discount for paying by check So it would actually be just under $1900 and about $150 less than Holy Lamb.
The specs for these two mattresses are slightly different. Holy Lamb lists 20# of organic cotton (Queen) and OMS lists 30# (also Queen). Iâm wondering if The Waverly is an âexclusiveâ that WJ Southard makes for OMS. I guess I could just ask. I will email them.
My main concern is buying something that I havenât tried in person. Sigh. Iâm not planning a trip to Syracuse anytime soon!
Sounds like you agree that thereâs some risk to trying a mattress at Soaring Heart or Holy Lamb that isnât exactly the same as the one from OMS. And then making a âblindâ purchase online. And a NON-REFUNDABLE purchase, at that! :blink:
Is that your opinion?
Thank you for helping us narrow down our choices!!!
One thing Iâd note is that with all the cutaway views youâve shown of the recent mattresses, itâs essentially a spring unit with wool on top (on bottom too). You might consider getting the most bare of bare spring units (organic ticking), and then using wool topper(s) to add the wool.
Iâd ask Phoenix, but I believe an individual pocket coil system is a bit less firm if thatâs a goal. If that were true, you might find a good price on a basic but premium spring mattress and then add good wool topper(s) to it.
Having wool detached and in a topper instead of mattress makes it easier to maintain, since it does compress and shaking it out helps. Also, you donât need 2 sides of your mattress with the integrated wool cushioning (it certainly is more reliable when attached to the mattressâŚbut as a topper you get more flexibility).
That said, as Phoenix has noted, youâre better trying things in combination to ensure it achieves PPP for you. But, it still might be easier to test for PPP that way then looking online at mattresses you cannot try.
Hi buttercupbetty,
All three mattresses look to me to be very similar to the Archetype mattress and use the same Springs and the same type of cover and the same type of wool (Eco wool) but I donât know if there are any any differences between them in terms of the amount of wool or cotton in each mattress or if the specs are approximations. Once may be listing the amount of wool or cotton on each side while the other may be listing the total. This is the type of more detailed information that a retailer or manufacturer would need to answer. If they are the same mattress then a local store may also be willing to come closer to âprice matchingâ the same mattress sold elsewhere.
Itâs also very common that a retailer will re-name a mattress so that they appear to be unique and discourage comparison shopping so I donât know if thatâs the case here with the Waverly or if there is indeed any meaningful differences between them.
I think there is always a risk in buying a mattress that you havenât tried in person where there are no exchange or return options after a purchase (so the greater risk in your case would be with the OMS mattress which you couldnât test in person). Whether the additional risk of a long distance or online purchase was âworth itâ or not would depend a lot on the person, whether they were closer to the âI can sleep on anythingâ end of the range or closer to the âprincess and the peaâ end of the range and on how closely the two mattresses were âmatchedâ or whether they were the same mattress. This is all part of each personâs personal value equation that I encourage each person to take into account when they are making a mattress purchase. I look at things more as the overall âvalueâ of the complete purchase rather than just the âvalueâ of only the mattress itself because there are many parts to value that are unique to each personâs preferences, circumstances, and risk tolerance.
As I often mention ⌠when you look back on a mattress purchase a decade or more down the road you will remember much more about how well you slept on the mattress and on how long it lasted than you will about ârelativelyâ small differences in price when you purchase it although of course price will always be an important part of the âvalueâ of any mattress purchase.
Phoenix
@dn:
Thatâs an idea I hadnât really considered. Thank you! Going with less padding on the actual mattress and softening it (creating individualized comfort layers) with wool toppers. Phoenix mentioned some advantage to âtuftingâ. I believe that that is when the comfort layers are secured or anchored through the core, right?
Re: pocket coil vs lura flex. Bedrooms and More was explaining to me that a pocket coil mattress will allow certain body parts to sink in more (hips and shoulders), whereas a âlura flexâ will offer more even support. I may be mixed up on the specifics of each type, but what stood out in my mind is that he was strongly recommending a lura flex type because it would last much longer. Can anyone comment on this?
While I wouldnât say that I can sleep on anything (especially if I have an adverse physical reaction) I do feel confident that I can make a firm mattress comfy with wool toppers and fleece.
I appreciate your advice!
Hi buttercupbetty,
There are some factors involved with this that you may want to take into account. If you buy a mattress with very thin comfort layers then it will almost certainly include polyfoam in the mattress which may or may not be an issue for some people. Almost all mattresses like this will have more than âaround an inch or soâ in the comfort and quilting layers combined which means that you would need to make sure that the polyfoam density was high enough to prevent softening and impression issues in the mattress. Wool wonât soften over time although it does ânestâ which is a normal part of how it performs as opposed to polyfoam where softening and impressions can be a sign of the material breaking down.
Tufting can also play a role and as you mentioned tufting a mattress can not only change how it feels and performs significantly but it will also help the mattress materials maintain their loft vs a mattress where the layers are quilted or just layered without pre-compressing the materials. A separate topper wouldnât act in the same way.
A two sided mattress with wool comfort layers will also help the wool to compress and settle more evenly but of course a wool topper also has more flexible options vs a mattress that has wool in the cover which doesnât have the ability to put it out in the sun to refresh it as easily and take advantage of the self cleansing nature of wool or to clean it or even replace it without having to replace the entire mattress.
Having said that ⌠one of our members here does sell a âbasicâ innerspring mattress that also uses a 460 coil innerspring with GOTS certified organic cotton and wool and has no polyfoam or latex at a very reasonable price that may be a good âcandidateâ for a wool topper (it would be quite firm by itself) and they may be well worth talking to.
They are right about this (not surprisingly). A Lura Flex is an open ended offset design that has helical coils that connect each spring together so each coil is linked to the ones beside it so there are more coils that share the load. A pocket spring doesnât have helicals that join the coils together (the fabfic pockets are connected together in the middle) so they are more âpoint elasticâ or contouring. A pocket coil generally needs thinner comfort layers because they provide some of the contouring and pressure relief while an offset coil may need thicker comfort layers to provide similar pressure relief and contouring. In most cases the support of an innerspring with helicals is more even and they are often good options for heavier people or those with more weight under the hips because they are stronger and more âresistiveâ to help prevent the heavier parts of the body from sinking in as far. Pocket coils ⌠particularly with thinner comfort layers or in lower gauges ⌠will compress more individually so each coil will have more wear.
In spite of the differences between the different types and the fact that a pocket coil would be less durable âin theoryâ in an apples to apples comparison but not always in practice ⌠an innerspring is not usually the weak link of a mattress with some exceptions depending on the gauge, type, design and number of coils, the layers above the coils, and the total amount of steel in each innerspring which affects how much the coils are compressed on a regular basis.
If you are confident in your experiences with wool toppers and arenât too much towards the âprincess and the peaâ end of the range then this would reduce the risk of an online purchase ⌠especially if you have tested a fairly similar combination in person.
Phoenix
Having said that ⌠one of our members here does sell a âbasicâ innerspring mattress that also uses a 460 coil innerspring with GOTS certified organic cotton and wool and has no polyfoam or latex at a very reasonable price that may be a good âcandidateâ for a wool topper (it would be quite firm by itself) and they may be well worth talking to.
What is the main difference between this âbasicâ mattress (above) and The Archetype from WJ Southard?
The nature of my recommendation is to ensure you get a chance to try whatever you think might work for PPP. Iâd pay attention to pressure relief, since what youâre thinking would have the risk of being firmer than the latex you had.
Hi buttercupbetty,
All the WJ Southard use the same innerspring (a 460 coil open offset verticoil) and the Pure Echo appears to use the same spring although the gauge may be different (they donât say specifically on their site). I donât know the specific differences in the mattresses but it would likely include the amount of wool and cotton batting used, the type and species of wool used, the quality and thickness of the cover fabric, and the method of construction (including tufting vs a quilted cover) and the return policy. These are generally the type of specifics that you would need to call the manufacturer themselves though to find out the details of each mattress and how they compare.
Phoenix