Consumer membership in The Mattress Underground

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
31

Hi loueylou.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:

This is correct … within a few weeks Luma Sleep will open the doors to their new showroom in Tampa, FL. Thanks gauss66 for breaking the news! :slight_smile:

Luma’s three lineups (which includes hybrid latex mattress) are excellent quality value products to suit most needs and preferences. Meanwhile, you might wish to visit two other manufacturing trusted members. About one and a half hours driving distance you’ve got Bedmasters here They have been making mattresses for a long time and use high-quality materials including Talalay latex, memory foam and higher quality polyfoam/innersprings and two-sided mattresses which is a real bonus. On the other side of Orlando from you about 2 hours driving distance, you have Fox Mattress in Volusia County that also carries a large variety of mattresses and manufactures 2 sided mattresses. All three mentioned companies are Trusted Manufacturing Members of this site and like all the members here I think very highly of and consider them to compete well with “the best” in the industry. They are very knowledgeable and skilled in guiding their customers to make the best possible choices out of the many options they have available.

Best of luck with your testing

Phoenix

32

Hello again-- different thread, hope this is ok

So, I am looking to replace my 12 year old Simmons Beautyrest. After scouring these forums (THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HOSTING THESE!), I am considering a myriad of options.

Me: I am a 6’ tall male, approx 250 lbs. Stomach sleeper
Wife: approx 5’ 7", approx 125. Side sleeper
Looking for a King size

We started by looking at a local mattress manufacturer with a stellar reputation. They recommended an inhouse made Talaly topped mattress. Its 5" of ‘high density foam’ topped with 6" of Talalay latex. The salesperson wasnt 100% sure on the specs (he will get back to me) but the lated is ILD 36 and the HD foam is 28 ILB

On my own, I have started looking (after reading ALL 20 pages!) through the sticky on ‘simplified mattress choices’ aka bed in a box.

I reached out to Sleep on Latex and had a great discussion. I also left a voicemail with Arizona Premium Mattress as well.

For Sleep on Latex, they recommended a medium firmness. I am a bit concerned about the ‘feel’ of dunlop vs talalay. That they are a trusted partner here makes me more comfortable with trying this out, but I am still hesitant. If only I could see a demo bed! :slight_smile:

The main thing is this: I really loved the local mattress manufacturers offering, but it is about 3x the price of the SOL offering. My previous mattress (more in line with the SOL price point, at the time) lasted 12 years, I do now know if its reasonable to expect more than, say, 7 years out of the next one.

Rather long winded. I apologize. If anyone can help me make a reasonably balanced decision, I’d appreciate it. Basically: what is so different between the bed itself, of the local option, that would make one jump up and say ‘wow-- this bed has X feature which is 1000x more desirable than a bed in a box’?

Also, is it confirmed that SOL has no memory foam in it? Thanks in advance for all the help! (and I thought car shopping was hard!)

33

Hi sirk98,

Welcome back! SOL is an excellent company with high integrity. There is no memory foam in their products. You can rest assured.

The reason your local mattress offering is nearly 3x the SOL pricing is due to the way retailers “mark up” the price of a mattress system vs. the price of purchasing from direct from an independent mattress manufacturer online. For example, a $2500.00 mattress set in a typical retail store is being purchased by that retail store from the mattress manufacturer for approximately $875.00. It is common that a retailer’s margin % of a sale of a luxury mattress is 65%! By purchasing direct from the manufacturer, consumers can realize tremendous savings. This is one of the reasons that e-commerce mattress sales are increasing so rapidly.

Both SOL and Arizona Premium are excellent choices to work with as you continue your mattress shopping journey. It may seem more complicated than buying a car, but consider that there are no car dealers that will provide you with the ability to have it for 100 days and then return it for a full refund, no questions asked!

Sweet dreams,

Team Luma

34

Thanks for reply!

So, basically I am trying to compare a Shovlin Nirvana (soft) mattress with a Sleep on Latex medium mattress. I also may have Ken at Arizona Mattress recommend/build me a mattress

I know the SOL mattress is dunlop Latex. I know the Nirvana (Shovlin) is high density foam ( the HD foam is 28 ILD) and 6" or talaly latex (ILD 36)

Just trying to figure out how to wrap my head around the difference between (for now, these two) mattresses. Trying to assign a “value”
To an unseen/felt SOL mattress and determine if its so vastly different as to warrant spending thousands more for the Nirvana

35

The conventional way to measure and compare “value” in a mattress has been based on the quality and amount of its material contents. Shovlin does not provide much information about the material contents of its Nirvana other than it contains 6" or 3" of Talalay latex. Your earlier post notes that there is 5" of HD 28 IFD foam beneath the latex. The means the mattress uses Talalay latex as the comfort layer/system and polyfoam as the support layer/system. The density of the HD foam matters, both in performance and value, as it does relate to firmness durability. Density is a measure of the foam weight (expressed in lbs. per cubic foot, see http://www.pfa.org/jifsg/jifsgs1.html)

HD foam is a broadly used term in the mattress industry for polyurethane foams greater than 1.5. In reality, a 1.5-2.0 density foam is more properly classified as a medium density foam. If it were 2.2 lb or higher, it would be reasonable to call it an HD foam in a mattress application. You should ask Shovlin about the density of its base foam. The Shovlin Nirvana, as described, has 6" of Talalay latex over a 5"polyurethane base foam. Latex foam is recognized as having significant value and is considered a high performance foam. Depending on the ILD, it will have a density from 3.0-5.0. The Talalay used in the Shovlin mattress is made in the US.
The SOL product(s) you are considering have either 6" or 8" of latex foam. SOL uses Dunlop latex made in Sri Lanka. Dunlop latex is also a high performance foam. As you compare “value” between the 2 products, in addition to price, you will be comparing the differences between Talalay and Dunlop latex as well as the amount contained in the mattress. Phoenix has written extensively on the subject, Latex - pros and cons - The Mattress Underground

At Luma Sleep, we prefer to use Talalay latex as the comfort layer latex and Dunlop latex as the support layer latex. We believe that this maximizes the value of each type of latex. The Talalay process creates an open cell foam that allows for air flow through the foam cells, in addition to the holes in the foam from the pins in the mold used to make the foam. It has a more luxurious feel/touch which is why we prefer it as a comfort layer. The Dunlop process also uses pins in the mold that can provide air flow; lower densities of Dunlop latex do have a more open cell. Dunlop latex is more dense, less bouncy and much less expensive. When it comes to comparing value between the two forms of latex, excluding price/cost, the difference is truly a matter of individual preference, considering all the above.

Looks like you’re going to get a good mattress either way you go.

Sweet dreams,

Team Luma

36

Thank you! This is precisely the perspective I am trying to gain.
It is so hard to have a subjective comparison on this, as I dont have the benefit of ‘feeling’ the SOL mattress.

Doing a search on this forum, I found this post: Nivrana Specs

Looks like the previous buyer confirmed the specs for the poly foam: 2.5 lb., 36 ILD base foam (see previous message HERE)

37

You’re welcome! If it is a 2.5 lb. density base foam, then you should feel more comfortable in knowing it will last, especially under 6" of Talalay latex. I do suggest you still ask Shovlin about it (don’t tell them about the info you found on TMU), as specifications do get changed over time, and going with a lower density foam would save them money.

Sweet dreams,

Team Luma

38

thanks again for the reply!

One other question: my existing 11 year old simmons beauty rest ‘luxury firm’ set has a foundation that appears to be heavy gauge wire grid with fabric over it. Would both the SOL and the Nirvana be ok on top of these?

Or would I need a new foundation? I saw this bunky board as an option. My preference would be to just buy the mattress, but if I do need a new foundation, then I may need to consider just buying a platform bed (saw this on the foundations thread: NewTown platform bed

39

Glad to be of assistance! The foundation you have from your Beautyrest set purchase, in terms used within the mattress industry, is called a semi-flex. It is indeed a heavy gauge wire grid with a fabric cover. The grid is stapled to a wooden base that is very similar to the bunkie board you describe. These foundations are very sturdy and should have a product life cycle longer than the mattress. As long as your foundation is level, stable/solid and does not make noise (e.g. squeak), you should be able to use it under your new mattress. We advise that you check with the company you select for your mattress (SOL, Shovlin, etc.) to make sure they agree and that there are no implications to your new mattress warranty.

40

Hello everyone I live in Pittsburgh, PA (south hills) and have recently started shopping for a king size mattress. My wife and I visited a nearby Mattress Firm. We felt most comfortable on the following:

  • Beautyrest Recharge Hybrid Greenmont Plush
  • Beautyrest Black Alcove Hybrid Plush
  • Serta iSeries 300 plush (hybrid)
  • Beautyrest Bayspring Firm Pillow Top

I havent gotten to the point of researching quality of materials much yet but I would love to hear what people think about these mattresses. Any recommendations on mattress retailers in Pittsburgh would also be welcome. Thanks!

41

Hi Jdadburgh.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:

I agree that after some preliminary testing it is best to dig a little deeper and “get to the point” of finding out the specifics of the components within any mattress that you are considering…I generally advise against the major brands such as Sealy/Stearns & Foster, Simmons, and Serta, as they all tend to use lower quality and less durable materials in their mattresses than most of their smaller competitors. Lower quality materials will tend to soften or break down prematurely relative to the price you pay, which is why I would generally suggest avoiding all of them completely (along with the major retailers that focus on them as well) regardless of how they may feel in a showroom along with any mattress where you aren’t able to find out the type and quality/durability of the materials inside it (You can see some reasons why I generally tend to avoid them in . the guidelines here along with post #3 here and post #12 here and post #404 here ).

Regarding each of the individual mattresses you are looking at you can perform a forum search here (just click on the link and type any key term or phrase ) to see comments or posts in discussion about them.

While I or any of the site experts are always happy to help the forum members here with “how” to choose, to act as a "fact check, or to help them find better manufacturers or retailers that have better quality and value but “what” to choose in terms of either a mattress or the balance between comfort/pressure relief and support/alignment that may be suitable for a specific person is always up to the only person who can feel what you feel on a mattress and best left to personal testing and your own experiences or more detailed discussions with the more knowledgeable people at the retailers or manufacturers that sell a mattress you are considering.

The first suggestion I’d have is to start with the tutorial post here which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines you will need to make the best possible choices … and know how and why to avoid the worst ones which would include the major brands such as Serta or any mattress where you aren’t able to find out the quality of the materials inside it and you have no way to identify any weak links in the mattress or make meaningful comparisons with other mattresses so you would be making a completely “blind” purchase. If you change the shopping approach and follow the steps outlined in the tutorial linked above you will have much higher odds of success.

You can perform a Forum Search and you can type in the “key term” any city or area you would be closer to and consider driving such as Pittsburgh or any other area and see what other businesses have been discussed in that region which may be helpful to you. There is a Pittsburgh list here that you might wish to check upon. Other than this we have decided to discontinue the provision of listings of potential retailers in various geographic regions (unless they are already approved site members), because of the difficulty in maintaining such lists in a retail landscape that is constantly changing, and most importantly the confusion it was creating with the consumer members who incorrectly assumed that these businesses had indeed gone through the strict qualification process and were approved as members of The Mattress Underground. Such an assumption is unfair to both the consumers seeking assistance, as well as the very businesses and manufacturers who meet the criteria to become Trusted Members of The Mattress Underground.

Whatever business you’re considering, I would always confirm that any retailer or manufacturer that you wish to visit is completely transparent (see this article) and also make sure that any mattress that you are considering meets the Post #13 quality/value guidelines here. One way to recognize the better retailers or manufacturers who are “mattress people” rather than “marketing people” is that once you start asking questions they will not only provide better answers but will also ask you better questions focused on finding out what you really need and prefer and offer their recommendations based on your answers rather than on “marketing stories”.

Good luck! and once you’ve had the chance to narrow things down a little further, feel free to post back with any specific questions and I or any of our Expert Members will be happy to assist you.

Phoenix

42

UPDATE:
In the end, I ordered a custom mattress from Ken at Arizona Premium Mattresses. It finally arrived today–Looking forward to opening the boxes and breaking it in :slight_smile:

Thanks again for all the advice :slight_smile:

43

Good for you! Glad Luma Sleep could be of assistance. Arizona Premium is a good company. We’re sure Ken will take care of you!
Sweet Dreams!

44

@sirk98 - Congrats on your new custom mattress! You definitely ordered from a top quality vendor whose customer service is exceptional. I have no affiliation with Ken or APM but have been very impressed with his level of knowledge and customer focus from his very helpful posts on this forum.

45

Thanks for replies!

Well, first night on the mattress was… interesting.

The mattress itself seems to be of extremely high quality (not entirely sure I would know if it wasnt, but everything seemed really well made)

Overall, the mattress felt really comfortable. Also, I did not wake up sweating 3 or more times at night (this was an issue with my old mattress). Additionally, its a bit early to know for certain, but my chronic lower back stiffness was a bit better today. I am a stomach sleeper, so I am sure this is a contributing factor on my old mattress.

All that being said, the mattress was a bit firmer than I recalled. I am assuming this is an adjustment / mattress break in thing. My plan is to give it a month and see if I still feel this way.

46

Hi sirk98,

Thanks for the update. It’s great to read that you are no longer being awoken for sweating at night on your new custom AZP mattress. We look forward to hearing back from you after you have had some time to acclimate to your new mattress and vice versa. :wink:

Sweet dreams,

Team Luma

47

UPDATE 1 MONTH(ish) AFTER BED ARRIVAL:

So, I spoke with Ken, and I realized that the bed, though built to spec, was not working for me–perhaps the specs I worked off were flawed.

So, I opted to buy a 3" Talalay Latex topper vs a comfort exchange. I am SO happy I did :slight_smile:

The bed is now SUPER comfortable. I also needed to replace my 11+ year old foundation so we bought a Zinuz Deluxe 12" platform bed. We also needed to replace our ancient pillows–the bed had so much more support that our pillows quickly proved to be basically useless.

All is well now. I am back to sleeping in my bed (I couldnt before the topper and bed frame arrived–very light sleeper)!

Couldnt be happier.

In the end, I saved approximately $1,400 by working with AZP—and by being patient (delivery of the bed did take a long time, but Ken was very responsive).

48

Hi sirk98.

Thank you for taking the time to share your comments and feedback and for letting us know what worked for you in the end … and some of the reasoning behind it … I am glad that you hit the sweet spot with adding the topper to your Arizona Premium mattress… and also that you were able to get some good savings!.:slight_smile: It is great that you also reevaluated your pillows which are a very important part of a sleeping system and the spinal alignment in the neck and upper body area. You are correct that the type of mattress you sleep on and how deeply you sink into the comfort layers also play a role in the type of pillow that is best for any particular sleeper Generally the deeper you sink into a mattress … the “thinner” a pillow you will typically need.

“All is well” when it ends well … in a deep and sound sleep.
I’m hoping that you’ll be able to provide more updates as time goes on regarding your mattress/toper combo.

Phoenix

49

Sorry for threadjacking, but since I cannot post a new topic in the general questions section, I have no choice.

Looking through the trusted members list, I see that Brooklyn Bedding is no longer a member, but Nest is. Given that Brooklyn does the manufacturing, and they fell off the trusted member list (why is that exactly?) then does that mean that Nest is no longer a trusted member as well?

Thanks!

P.S. This is the best, most objective, mattress site out there. Much appreciated. I’ve learned a lot.

50

Hi batesman.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:

Thanks for your appreciation. I am glad that the site is assistive in your research!

Nest Bedding is one of our Trusted Members of this site and like all the members here I think very highly of and consider them to be among the “best of the best” in the industry.

While Nest Bedding is a partner of Brooklyn Bedding they are separate entities functioning independently. BB’s factory operations contract manufacturer for Nest Bedding. This partnership does not raise any conflicts as it relates to Nest’s membership in TMU. Brooklyn Bedding manufactures beds with different specifications and designs. As to why one is a member and the other not…BB was a member for several years with BB’s membership in TMU ending late last year.

FYI just in case you are considering one of Nest’s products … we will be updating shortly the Coupon Codes for Nest Bedding for Labor Day period.

Good luck with your research!

Phoenix