Does anyone know what HeveaPUR is? It seems like a marketing gimmick but it doesn’t mention if it’s talalay or dunlap.
They have their models setup with 8" = firm, 9" = medium, and 10’ = softest. Normally it seems most places just have everything the same height. Does anyone see any issues with this model?
More of a general latex question. Does latex soften over time? We bought the Evening Dreams Comfort Plush (Link) last year but had to rotate the mattress every week as I’m 280lbs and over the week my side would soften too much. This didn’t happen till 60-90 days in or so. When I’m in the store should I plan on getting one slightly firmer than I’d really like?
I saw your question and wanted to provide a quick reply - I’m sure Phoenix will provide more complete details for you.
HeveaPUR is a registered name for a Dunlop latex. It is GOLS certified (there is currently no GOLS certified Talalay latex).
Yes, all foams soften over time. Latex will tend to change the least as time goes on.
As an aside, the GOTS and GOLS certifications for the product you mentioned have expired. Perhaps just an error with that company keeping their web site up to date.
I don’t know that the model changeover would have anything to do with the certifications expiring. Companies are often lax in updating their web sites for things like this and they could be completely current with GOTS/GOLS. It could be a simple remerchandising of their lineup, which brands tend to do every 1-2 years.
HeaveaPUR is just a trade name that they use for latex. In their iChoice HeveaPUR mattresses the HeveaPUR latex is Talalay. They say it’s 100% natural in the description but I would confirm this because their ILD numbers match the numbers for Talalay Global’s blended Talalay latex. ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: latexfoam.com/products.html
In their HeaveaPUR mattresses they say that the latex has an organic certification which would mean that it’s Dunlop because there isn’t any certified organic Talalay latex.
The thickness of a layer and the firmness of a layer will both affect how soft they feel so it’s quite common for softer latex mattresses to have thicker comfort layers and be thicker overall than firmer latex mattresses.
All foam materials will soften over time but latex in general is the most durable of all the foam materials so it will soften less and more gradually than other types of foam materials.
The softness of a foam material will also affect its durability because softer layers are less durable than firmer layers that use the same type of material and foam materials will also soften and break down faster for those that are in higher weight ranges than for those that are in lower weight ranges so I would be cautious with mattresses that use softer latex layers (particularly with an ILD in the low to mid teens) because they are more likely to soften or break down more rapidly with your weight and there would also be a higher risk of alignment issues when you sleep on the mattress as well.
There will be a break in and adjustment period for any new mattress or sleeping system as the mattress loses any of it’s “false firmness” and the cover stretches and loosens a little and the materials settle and your body gets used to a sleeping surface that is different from what it is used to (see post #3 here) but the mattresses on the showroom floor will generally already be broken in so you wouldn’t need to take this into account.
For most people there will be a range of firmness levels that will be suitable for them to sleep on but for some people that are less sensitive the range would be wider and for some people that are more sensitive the range would be narrower. I would choose the mattress that your careful testing for alignment and pressure relief indicates is the best match for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) but if you find that there are two mattresses that would both be suitable choices then I would choose the one that is slightly firmer.
Phoenix
PS: I called one of their stores after I wrote my original reply to ask them about the latex in the HeveaPUR mattresses and they told me that it was Talalay that comes from Sri Lanka but the descriptions say that the latex has a GOLS certification and there isn’t any Talalay latex that has an organic certification and there also isn’t any Talalay latex that is made in Sri Lanka and when I told him this he said he would check further and email me what he was able to find out. If it really is Talalay then the description that says it has an organic certification would be incorrect.
The only other latex mattresses I can find in the area are at Sleep Doctor. However I can’t find any information online around them. They labeled them the Celeste and Latex Eurotop. I know they are hybrid’s with foam core and latex topper but I couldn’t get more info out of them. Anyone been able to track down the ILD? They look very similar to the Dream foam bedding, with the same covers and such.
Can you please provide a link to the products in question?
Being a product with a foam core, these items wouldn’t be “true” latex mattresses, so comparisons to the earlier models you mentioned would be a bit of apples to oranges. Also, knowing the ILD of a layer of latex foam isn’t a reflection upon the quality of the foam, but more the indication of the plushness, which of course will vary in a finished mattress based upon the combination of all of the other comfort layers.
Unfortunately I can’t find these mattresses online anywhere. They were next to the restonic in store but all those had restonic signs. The 5 latex mattresses all had Sleep Doctor signs with printed labels and prices. They had 3 with polyfoam cores and 2 total latex. I’m wondering if the store owner didn’t order these from dreamfoam bedding and mark them as Sleep Doctor mattresses, tripling the price.
A little backstory, my GF just moved to DC for work and I let her have our newer foam bed. I’m now on my old college ‘Westin’ mattress (11 years old now) which is causing my lower back pain every morning and I’m not sleeping well on it. I’m looking for a replacement, but since it’ll move to a guest room in 1-2 years; the decision I’m wrestling with is go with a dreamfoam bedding mattress or take advantage of the markdown on the full latex Denver mattress ones. If I go with DF, I was hoping that I could use this Celeste Firm to help with my ‘Ask Chuck’ number.
EDIT: Looking at it closer, it seems DF and the Sleep Doctor are different, at least in the covers. SD had a brown side with handles vs the DF seems to be all white. They both have the same top with bamboo stitched into it.
Personally I can’t be of assistance with a private label item - there would be no way for me to know what is in the product. Your best source for that information would be the actual retailer. My advice has always been to only deal with retailers who are upfront and offer complete specifications for their products. If they don’t, I would consider another retailer who is more assistive. Maybe someone else here has more knowledge of the products in question.
I completely agree. One of the reasons I’m even entertaining the thought of the Denver Mattress ones even though they are 3 times the cost of a DF, is because they are very open about their stuff and they have an excellent return policy.
The Sleep Doctor store didn’t have a refund policy, only a exchange.
Just to expand on my previous reply and to add to Jeff’s comments … I checked the Control Union website and they are still showing a current organic certification so it’s possible that they just haven’t updated their website (although it’s possible that the Control Union site also isn’t up to date).
Since they told me on the phone that their HeveaPUR mattresses were made with Talalay latex (which appears to be incorrect) … it’s certainly possible that their iChoice HeveaPUR mattresses are also made with Dunlop latex as well. Either way though … both Talalay and Dunlop are both high quality and durable materials.
Every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting material) will have some effect on the feel and performance of every other layer and component in the mattress and on the mattress “as a whole” so while they may be in the same general category as some of the Dreamfoam mattresses … it’s unlikely they would have the same combination of materials with the same thickness and firmness levels for each of the layers.
Each mattress category can include hundreds of different mattresses with a very wide range of different designs, different “feels”, different characteristics, and different firmness levels. Every individual layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting material) will affect the feel and response of every other layer and component both above and below it and the mattress “as a whole” so each mattress category will generally include some mattresses that will be a good “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) and others that use the same type of materials and components and are in the same category may but have a different design or firmness level that may be completely unsuitable for you to sleep on … even if it uses the same general type of materials and components.
I would also keep in mind that ILD is only one of several variables or “specs” that will determine how soft or firm an individual layer or a mattress “as a whole” will feel to different people (see post #4 here). In addition to this the ILD of different materials or different types and blends of latex also aren’t always directly comparable to each other (see post #6 here) so using the ILD of a particular layer or combination of layers as a reliable indication of how any mattress will “feel” or how firm will feel to you compared to another mattress with a different combination of layers can sometimes be more misleading than helpful.
Specs such as ILD/IFD or other specifications that affect the firmness or feel of the mattress are also “comfort specs” and aren’t particularly important to know with a local purchase because with good testing your body will tell you what you need to know about whether a mattress is a good “match” for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP and complex combinations of “comfort specs” are much too complex to use as the basis for deciding whether a mattress will be suitable for you to sleep on.
While nobody can speak to how any specific mattress will “feel” for someone else or whether it will be a good “match” in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) because this is too subjective and relative to different body types, sleeping positions, and individual preferences, sensitivities, and circumstances and you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress … outside of PPP (which is the most important part of “value”), the next most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can’t see or “feel” and assessing the durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing the specifics of its construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new so I would always make sure that you find out information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.
If for any reason a retailer or manufacturer you are dealing with can’t easily provide you with all the information you need to know to make an informed choice and make sure that there are no lower quality materials or weak links that could be a reason for concern in terms of the durability or useful life of any mattress you are considering … I would avoid the mattress completely because it would be much too risky to purchase it.
Are you looking at the Sleep Doctor stores in Michigan? If so, what is your zip code? If it is the Celeste model of which I am familiar, it only had 1" of latex in it, if I’m not mistaken. Depending upon your zip code, there may be some other latex options for you.
There is a manufacturer called Capitol Bedding in Lansing and they do have some higher-quality mattresses in their lineup. They may produce some all-latex models - I’m not sure. They don’t sell directly to the public but if you contact them they might be able to let you know if they have a retailer close to you that carries the type of product you desire. About an hour away you have Mattress Mart and they offer Pure Talalay Bliss products, but that might be too far for you to drive.
Those are two stores I’m familiar with close to you. Phoenix may have a better list for you.
Capitol is where I got our main mattress. They have good beds, just no latex (they have one with latex over coils though). I’ll look into Mattress Mart, thanks.
Subject to first confirming that any retailer or manufacturer on the list you wish to deal with is completely transparent (see this article) and to making sure that any mattress you are considering meets your specific criteria and the quality/value guidelines here … the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in and around the Lansing, MI area are listed in my previous reply to one of your posts from a couple of years ago in post #2 here. The list has been edited since then so it’s still up to date as far as I’m aware.
I don’t keep a record of the individual mattresses or their specs that the retailers and manufacturers in the hundreds of forum lists throughout the forum carry on their floor or have available online (it would be a bigger job than anyone could keep up with in a constantly changing market) but checking their websites and making some preliminary phone calls to the retailers/manufacturers that are on the local or online lists is always a good idea before you decide on which retailers or manufacturers you wish to deal with anyway. This will tell you which of them carry mattresses that would meet your specific criteria, are transparent about the materials in their mattresses, and that carry the type of mattresses that you are interested in that are also in the budget range you are comfortable with. Once you have checked their websites and/or talked with the ones that interest you then you will be in a much better position to decide on the ones that you are most interested in considering or visiting based on the results of your preliminary research and conversations.
If there are no other latex mattresses in the Lansing area that you are interested in testing then you may need to travel a little further if you wish to test other latex mattresses and there are also lists for the Detroit/Ann Arbor areas in post #2 here and for the Portage/Kalamazoo area in post #2 here and for the Grand Rapids area in post #273 here.
Thanks for all the help. Given the lack of quality sleep over the past weeks, I’ll probably just make a decision tomorrow either going with the Denver Mattress sale or try my luck with DreamFoam and hope I can get the firmness I’m looking for.
Checked out the Sleep Doctor one again. The Celeste has 10% latex and the other one I was looking at has 34% latex. No other specs were given. I also found a ThermaSleep tag on them, but that still doesn’t seem to bring up any results online.
This is the information on the law tag which is mostly meaningless because it doesn’t include the thickness of each layer, the order of the layers, the density of any polyfoam or memory foam, or the type and blend of any latex. The information you need is in this article.
The durability and useful life of a mattress depends on the weakest link in the mattress and if the mattress also includes more than “about an inch or so” of lower quality and less durable materials (in the upper layers especially) then this could compromise the durability and useful life of the mattress regardless of the amount of latex inside it.
If the retailer you are dealing with isn’t willing or able to find out and provide you with the information you need to know then I would walk away.