I have been researching and testing mattresses for the past year or so now and I think I have decided to just build my own, just wanted some input before I dive in.
First of all, thank you for this amazing site. In a world full of BS paid for reviews and ads, this place is a godsend.
I know most people aren’t going to read my long, drawn out “story” so I will summarize my build and questions at the bottom!
So, my problem is I have always loved pillow-top or soft memory foam mattresses, yet I have a screwed up neck/back that always hurt when I awoke and I am a very HOT sleeper. I finally realized after much reading, that I was too heavy(230lbs )and I probably needed a firmer mattress. So as a test I flipped my soft memory foam mattress over, put a 30ILD Dunlop topper over the firm polyfoam and gave it a shot. I hated the feel at first, I instantly missed that “ahhh i’m in a cloud” feeling. But to my surprise, I fell asleep WAY quicker and felt way better the next day.
The only problem is that I am a side sleeper with an awkward body shape (very broad shoulders) (48" Chest - 34" waist), so its hard on my shoulders with the firmer mattress. I believe this is why I preferred sleeping on such a soft mattress in the past.
To get around this I decided I needed to make a “zoned” mattress. But then I came across the L&P combizone innerspring (Arizona Mattress). I tested out a few of the Beautyrest Black Mattresses and liked them alot, but they were not perfect, so I went back to making my own.
My stats:
Male
230lbs
Broad Shoulders (48" Chest 34" waist)
Back & Neck pain
My questions:
Would this bed be soft enough that my shoulders would sink in and align my spine, yet still supportive? Would I be better off using different materials or zoning a pure latex mattress?
If I go this route how soft of a talalay topper would you recommend? I like the 30ILD dunlop it makes my body feel great when I sleep, but it doesn’t feel “comfy”. I believe a talalay topper of near the same ILD would feel much more plush and luxurious, correct?
Thank you very much for that compliment. It means more than you know.
Since you are considering making a DIY mattress, I would first have you read option 3 in post #15 here and the posts it links to (and option #1 and #2 as well) so that you have more realistic expectations and that you are comfortable with the learning curve, uncertainty, trial and error, or in some cases the higher costs that may be involved in the DIY process. While it can certainly be a rewarding project … the best approach to a DIY mattress is a “spirit of adventure” where what you learn and the satisfaction that comes from the process itself is more important than any cost savings you may realize (which may or may not happen). Sometimes it is the best approach to getting something that works for a specific need or somatotype, such as yours, which is more mesomorphic.
While your mattress certainly can be contributing to your overall discomfort, be sure to revaluate your pillow as you go through this process and complete your new mattress, as much upper thoracic and lower cervical issues can be traced back to an improper pillow promoting poor alignment.
While memory foam can be one of the worst choices for those who are temperature sensitive (and I think you’ll be addressing this by replacing with latex), you still may be interested in learning about what affects the sleeping temperature of a mattress or sleeping system in post #2 here.
It is easy to fall into the trap of wanting to be “cuddled” with that “in a cloud feeling”, but the key variable you’ll want to address to spend as much time in the deeper layers of sleep would be alignment, and I think your little experiment showed that you do need a bit more support deep down and in the transition layer. But it certainly doesn’t mean that you need to sleep on a rock! Also, as you are very physically active, alignment will be especially important to you as get the extra rest you need for recovery when your muscles are taxed and stressed and not as able to maintain micro-contractions at night to assist with compensation for a poor mattress.
Various zoning systems can be very useful and worth considering for people who have more challenging circumstances or sensitivities, body types (V-shaped like you) that are more difficult to “match” to a mattress, more complex medical issues, or who have a history of having more difficulty in finding a mattress that works well for them. There is more about zoning in this article and in post #11 here. Take a few minutes to read through these two posts as they will help you understand zoning and how it can assist you.
[quote]Here is my current idea:
L&P combizone innerspring base
3" 30ILD Dunlop layer - SleepOnLatex - I already own this, thats why I’m using it.
3" Talalay Top layer 20-30ILD (Not sure yet)
SnugFleece Wool Topper
Would this bed be soft enough that my shoulders would sink in and align my spine, yet still supportive?[/quote]
Unfortunately, there are entirely too many individual variables and preferences involved for anyone to accurately answer a question like that, and the only way to know whether any specific mattress design or combination of layers and components is a good “match” for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP with any certainty will be based on your own careful testing and/or your own personal experience when you sleep on it. Having said that … you can see some general comments about the properties of an “ideal” mattress in post #4 here.
To learn about pressure relief and support, there is more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel”.
As you are wider in the shoulders and have a larger mass, it would follow that a single 3" layer of your Dunlop layer wouldn’t be enough to allow the sinking-in that you need for proper alignment, so adding the additional 3" layer on top certainly would be something worth investigating.
There is more about some of the differences between a latex support core and an innerspring support core in post #28 here and the posts it links to but the choice between them would really be a preference and/or a budget choice rather than a “better/worse” choice because innerspring and latex support cores are both very durable components. Your innerspring idea certainly is a good durable option, and if you didn’t like it you could certainly replace it with a latex core down the road.
Again your own personal testing would be the only way to know this for sure, but based upon your feedback a Talalay layer in the low 20s ILD certainly would be interesting to investigate. If you found that too soft, you could either return it (if the store you purchased it from offer it), or place it under your 30 ILD Dunlop layer and try that feel using a “dominating layer” on top.
Softness is very relative to the body type and sensitivity of each person. People who are heavier that sink into a foam will feel it is softer than someone who is lighter and the same foam doesn’t allow them to sink in as much. Some people will also be more sensitive to some of the deeper layers or they may come into play more with higher weights and some will tend to focus on the “feel” of the top layer or even the “feel” of the cover.
The most common definition of softness has to do with the pressure relieving qualities of a mattress. This comes from the upper layers of the mattress and how well they re-distribute weight away from any pressure points. If you read post #6 here it describes someone floating in the air in good alignment and gradually being lowered onto a mattress. At first only the more “pointy parts” of the body will contact the mattress and all the weight is concentrated there. As you gradually sink in deeper more of the body surface begins to take up weight and relieve pressure on the parts that were initially in contact with the mattress. Eventually enough of the body surface is bearing weight that there are no perceptible pressure points. This is why the depth of the pressure relieving cradle and the materials that are used in the top layers are so important.
Because of all the varying descriptions of what soft and firm really is … it’s usually much more “accurate” and objective to talk in terms of the overall “feel” of a mattress (surface feel), the pressure relief of a mattress, and the support and alignment of a mattress. I would worry less about the “in a cloud” feeling of the upper surface, and focus on finding something that combined to provide you an overall feel that is just “soft enough” while still helping you achieve good alignment.
I know I threw quite a bit of information at you, but I really think you already have a pretty good start on some good ideas.
I’ll be interested to learn of your progress as you go through this DIY process.
[quote]Maybe a Reverie mattress would work for you because you can move the latex foam support cells around to change the firmness in different sections. Or for less money, their OSO mattress which just has the sleep cells around the upper torso area. I think both are members here. revsleep.com/?utm_source=google&utm_medi...cJTh2tJowaAi3c8P8HAQ
ososleep.com[/quote]
Clutchless, thank you these look very interesting. If I decide against a DIY project, I will definitely look into these.
I definitely understand the risks, but I think it would just be a fun experience and it allows me to toy with different options over the months/years until I get that perfect fit.
I plan on making a “semi” DIY pillow at the same time. I am planning on using a LaNoodle adjustable pillow and buying some wool or Kapok filling to make a Nest EasyBreather like pillow that uses a little more Latex Noodles.
I will read into these but the more I think about it, the less I want to attempt zoning. I sleep MOSTLY on my side, but also on my back at times and I’m afraid if I zone it for side sleeping it wouldn’t be so great for back sleeping.
Unfortunately I just realized that L&P combizone is zoned the exact OPPOSITE of what I would need. It seems to have a firmer edges and a soft center.
I can’t seems to find another high quality innerspring core for a reasonable price. So my choice would either be buy a super cheap Chinese mattress from amazon Zinus 8" OR from Ikea and add 6" of latex… I doubt you would recommend this, but the mattress has almost NO foam, so I figure with 6" of latex on top it couldn’t be THAT bad and might last a few years at least. But this is definitely the cheap, interim option.
Option 2: Am I crazy?
Buy a Cheap Simmons Beautyrest Recharge ~$500 - Throw my current latex topper on it for now, with the final intention of cutting the mattress apart and using the foam incased innerpring as a base and adding 6" of latex on top of it, in a nice new wool mattress cover.
Thank you so much for taking time to respond and help me with this!
The CombiZone you linked to is three zones, with one gauge thicker steel in the middle third. This would allow for a bit “firmer” deep down support in the middle third of your body, which is where you probably have a considerable concentration of mass from your training. Being deep down, it’s not something that you would notice so much as you would if you were choosing upper foam comfort layers that were also zoned.
The Quantum Edge system is a newer offering from Leggett and Platt (and separate from the zoning), and it is a very nice edge reinforcement system that replaces the usual solid polyfoam edge systems used by most mattress companies. I personally like edge systems such as this.
For a support core, I wouldn’t have a concern using an item like this. I certainly wouldn’t hesitate to phone Arizona Premium Mattress (mattresses.net - a member here, which means that I think highly of them) and mention any concerns that you have and also talk to them about what you’re trying to accomplish, as they are experienced with helping many mattress DIYers.
If you’re looking at a few other innerspring options, you could look at Texas Pocket Springs or HSM listed in the spring section of the component post here. I would find these options much more desirable than an imported Chinese spring unit or a basic Simmons Recharge spring unit.
