I bought a new mattress recently, and even though it’s a medium slight firmness according to the manufacturer, it is just WAY too firm for me. It feels like it doesn’t really contour when I lay on it… it’s both uncomfortable/painful on my ribs. If I return it though, I am out of the huge delivery fee, and I am way over my budget already, so instead I’m trying to find a GOOD mattress pad. Do you guys know of anything high quality? Most of the stuff on amazon looks questionable or missing a lot of info on what goes into them, so I can’t easily decide. I was looking for one with a couple inches of convoluted foam, but I haven’t been able to find one that didn’t suck (found several that were convoluted foam, but they have different sections of texture on them according to reviews).
Hi Better,
Have you searched for ‘mattress topper’ instead of ‘mattress pad’? I find the word topper is more commonly used for what I think you’re looking for. There is definitely no shortage of mattress toppers out there 
several of the site members sell excellent toppers.
Convoluted poly foam is about the cheapest material you can buy, and rarely used in higher quality toppers. It doesn’t really surprise me that everything you see looks like it ‘sucks’.
There’s a good post, the URL of which I always forget of some toppers. Until then, one site that has a variety to look at from several manufacturers is
Also, sites like mattresses.net, SleepEZ, sleeplikeabear, all sell latex slabs and covers for them which are excellent toppers also.
Most common higher quality materials are latex, wool, cotton.
Also, make sure you’ve read the tutorial post on selecting a mattress. I know that you’re only inquiring about a topper, but the requirements are essentially the same, and the problem you’re trying to solve is one of the 'P’s in PPP - I.e. Pressure relief (read the tutorial, which will explain). The tutorial is here:
Essentially, the goal is to find a mattress and topper combination which provides suitable Posture and alignment and also suitable pressure relief. The good news is softening a too firm mattress is generally easier than firming up a too soft mattress.
[quote=“dn” post=28451]Hi Better,
Have you searched for ‘mattress topper’ instead of ‘mattress pad’? I find the word topper is more commonly used for what I think you’re looking for. There is definitely no shortage of mattress toppers out there several of the site members sell excellent toppers.[/quote]
Ok, that’s useful. I haven’t looked for topper yet.
I just went with it cause a similar (but softer) mattress like mine has some convoluted foam on top. I was trying to emulate it.
[quote]There’s a good post, the URL of which I always forget of some toppers. Until then, one site that has a variety to look at from several manufacturers is
http://www.thecleanbedroom.com/Organic_Mattresses/Mattress_Toppers/organic_mattress_toppers.html[/quote]
… those are insanely expensive. You could buy a whole new mattress for those prices! I don’t need organic or anything ultra good, in fact I can sleep on low quality surfaces provided it meets the requirements below of just being flexible and not too stiff.
[quote=“dn” post=2845]
Also, make sure you’ve read the tutorial post on selecting a mattress. I know that you’re only inquiring about a topper, but the requirements are essentially the same, and the problem you’re trying to solve is one of the 'P’s in PPP - I.e. Pressure relief (read the tutorial, which will explain). The tutorial is here:
https://forum.mattressunderground.com/t/how-to-look-for-and-find-the-best-mattress-for-you-read-first[/quote]
I don’t want to sound rude, but damn, that is a wall of text if I have ever seen one. And I’m a burnt out so right now I can’t read that. I did scan the PPP link and most of it I have become familiar with trial and error. Here’s is what I want BTW. Dont’ really know why I’m saying, but might as well get it out there.
- * Flexiblity - I just want it to depress when weight is applied. I’m pretty lightweight, and I feel like I dont’ do anything when I lay on it now. I don’t want to fully sink, but I want to sleep in, not on.
- * Fast response, like a trampoline for my hands. If I can “bounce” my hands on it easily, then it’s good.
- * Not overly soft/memory foam-ish or slow - I hate surfaces that feel like quicksand or “mushy”.
- * Can’t hold onto heat or be too temperature sensitive, because if it’s hot, I will never get to sleep no matter how good it feels.
Mostly, I just want something flexible… I dont’ really care about softness or firmness. I feel like something very flexible by nature will be the perfect balance - it won’t be too firm because it has the ability to move and release pressure, and it won’t be too soft because it wouldn’t need a lot of padding to offset firmness that is not there. I feel like I just want old style flip mattresses, where you may be sleeping really close to/on the springs, but they are such good quality that even as they wear out, they still feel good because they spring [verb] when laid on. This post basically took the words out of mouth too: The Mattress Industry is One Big Scam – Jeff Boulter's Blog
Hi Better;
I do know what you want. You might find that latex toppers are less expensive … maybe in the $300 price range for a queen, maybe ranging up to $500.
That said, yes, I know, you want a very good mattress for yourself that is ‘just comfortable, how hard could that be?’. You don’t think you want it to be perfect so you’re thinking it should therefore be much easier. Note that i’m grinning as I write this… you then went on to list a series of needs and preferences, including you want it not too soft but just soft and nice, but not too hot, and basically it should be perfect for yourself 
OH, and you want it at a price you find reasonable, but which you’ve not really disclosed, to remedy the fact the mattress you just bought isn’t working out for you.
If you want advice on buying polyfoam or convoluted, it’s cheap - walmart, sears, ikea, bed bath and beyond, etc., all sell it. Many cities have foam shops that you might be able to buy from. However, simply buying cheap materials is really going to risky in terms of if it actually helps you.
If you want advice on how to match your needs and wants (that’d be the PPP again) with high value mattresses (i.e. not those made from cheap non-durable material) then unfortunately there’s no shortcut, because only you will know if it’s right or not. You don’t need to follow it, but the very reason it exists is to try to help you pick a mattress that’s right for yourself (and quite honestly, your current approach doesn’t seem to be suiting you all that well )
It is ironic that you linked to a post about someone ranting about the cheap materials used in mattresses and the “inflated” high prices, and the forum thread you linked to has replies from retails members of this forum, but you are shopping for one of the very materials commonly criticized as being ‘the cheap stuff’ (i.e. convoluted polyfoam) that mainstream mattress makers stuff into their non durable mattresses.
Anyhow, I think you’ve got a place to start - be it reviewing the tutorial or investigating mattress toppers.
Hi Better,
Outside of dn’s comments and suggestions … the topper guidelines in post #8 here may also be helpful to you.
I would keep in mind that softness and firmness has a significant effect on how flexible a material is and on how much you sink into a mattress.
Phoenix
Part of the problem is that I didn’t know what was right while shopping. The only things that felt good were like $139 mattresses… that cheap? I was doubting if they would even last. Everything else felt foreign, especially the more high end I went.
I’m a strange customer, I know, but I can tell you why. The previous mattress I was sleeping on was past the point of sleepable for many years… however due to frugality and wanting to make it work, I continued to sleep on it with success (only until I could not consistently get comfortable or woke up in extreme pain, even when sleeping directly on the edge of the mattress, did I end up having to replace it). I know I can get away with less or lower quality materials because I’ve done it before. Now is just the hard part of trying to find that perfect quality, but not too much quality, therefore I can keep the price low, material LOL.
My previous mattress, I could feel the springs on it. It didn’t have what felt like a lot of padding or foam or material to make it softer. It honestly felt like the softness came the springs and their movement. I’m reading that link now. Talalay with a lower ILD is what I’m looking at now, but it is really too expensive. Is there ANYTHING else with a fast response. I don’t have a job, and I am already way past my initial budget. It doesn’t matter if I am shown what is truly good if I can’t afford it.
Hi Better,
the two types of foam that have a fast response are Latex (Dunlop or Talalay) and polyfoam. Synthetic latex or mostly synthetic blends are less costly than natural latex and polyfoam is less costly than both. If you decide to go with polyfoam I would use 1.8 lb density or higher (higher density is more durable and will keep it’s original properties for longer). There is a link to good sources for both in the topper post I linked earlier.
Phoenix
Thank you so much for posting that! That is exactly the kind of response I was looking for. I’m gonna start looking into them now. I should have done it earlier, but you know, procrastination and trying to forget problems. Bad habits.
Even though I seem to be knocking out so far, I did actually realize my mistake of choosing the wrong level/style of comfort quite quickly after receiving it. It’s really too bad that manufacturers and most websites don’t mention response time or how you put into words about movement (motion separation, ease of movement ) - because that is really useful. I could somewhat feel that I didn’t like my mattress and others I laid on, but I didn’t really have the words to describe it, and by not having words, I couldn’t accurately define what I was having problems with. It was like this je ne sais quoi.
I don’t know if you’ve made one (well you probably have or thought of this), but this would be the perfect time to make a spreadsheet comparing the different materials in regards to speed, motion, movement, “feel”, quality, average price range, etc.
Hi Better,
Unfortunately there isn’t enough information available to make a spreadsheet like this for all the thousands of different versions of foam (in different densities and softness/firmness levels) that are used in mattresses (much less the other non foam materials) and even if there was a spreadsheet of every material with all the specs and prices (which will vary by supplier) for every material … most mattresses use a combination of materials and components and every layer and component affects every other layer and component in terms of how it feels and responds so there would be an almost infinite number of combinations. Even a difference of an inch in thickness of a foam layer or something as simple as a mattress cover can have a significant effect on how the other layers and components feel and respond.
A spreadsheet like that would be so complex that it wouldn’t really have any meaning any more and most people would try to use specs to make a comfort choice instead of using their own personal experience. Each person’s perceptions are also very subjective and unique to them and in some cases (such as memory foam) the specs of a material will even change with temperature and humidity.
There are general descriptions of each category of material and component in the mattresses section of the site and in the articles about memory foam here and latex here (along with many forum posts that I use as reference posts) but it would be much too complex to try and deal with every possible combination that you would find in a mattress outside of listing the things to look and test for in an actual mattress so that each person can use their own perceptions to decide which combination of materials in a mattress is the best match for them.
It’s a great idea but it would probably take years of full time effort to put together (even if all the specs were available) and would be so complex and subjective that I don’t know how useful it would be.
Phoenix
If I might, I’ll throw in my 2 cents, as I’ve spent much of this year throwing toppers on a too-firm mattress so maybe I can be helpful.
First of all, you’re in good company both in looking for that ‘old mattress’ experience and in not knowing how to properly judge the products currently being made. It used to be much easier to just buy something and do well with it; not these days.
Now I know you’re on a budget, but the memory foam you’re likely to get from Amazon or Target or wherever really is pretty shoddy (and stinky!). Comfy 'til your body warms it, then it gets gross. If you can bump up to the level of some of the recommended members on this site, you’ll do much better.
As how to choose a topper, after trying several, I would think about it like this - put a super-soft topper on a wood floor, it needs to absorb 100% of your shape, you’ll bottom out & that’s no good. On a medium firm surface, now there’s more of a transition of impact happening, better chance it’ll work as part of a functional system. And so on. Part of knowing what to look for is determining just how ‘too firm’ what you own is. (I learned I needed at least 2 tiers to make mine work, it was just that off the mark.)
Something to think about - I read all the tutorials too and got lots of advice and still felt at sea in a store. What helped me start to understand what to look for was a trip to a local Sleep Number dealer. (Though if you give them your info they will be calling!) They put you on a bed at it’s firmest, then soften it as you watch a screen where a display of your body’s impact changes colors. Just part of their sales pitch, but still, I never really appreciated the distinction between support and pressure until I had it visualized as I felt it happening. Now that I get that, I don’t feel lost anymore, and my decisions have been a million times better. (Anyway, it helped me, so just a thought.)
Final thoughts - there are various feather beds or down substitute beds etc. that are reasonably priced, and I have friends who really like those. Also, part of the reason the toppers at Clean Bedroom are so expensive is they come sewn into an enclosure, if you just find a place to sell you straight foam, the price is much lower. Finally, buying toppers can really suck, as in many places they’re not returnable. So test as many products as you can personally, people will recommend what ‘might’ work but only you can really decide.
I hope this was a helpful contribution to your situation and to the forum. Good luck!
Hi mg517,
I think your thoughts and insights are great … thanks for sharing them
Phoenix
[quote=“mg517” post=28646]If I might, I’ll throw in my 2 cents, as I’ve spent much of this year throwing toppers on a too-firm mattress so maybe I can be helpful.
First of all, you’re in good company both in looking for that ‘old mattress’ experience and in not knowing how to properly judge the products currently being made. It used to be much easier to just buy something and do well with it; not these days.
Now I know you’re on a budget, but the memory foam you’re likely to get from Amazon or Target or wherever really is pretty shoddy (and stinky!). Comfy 'til your body warms it, then it gets gross. If you can bump up to the level of some of the recommended members on this site, you’ll do much better.
As how to choose a topper, after trying several, I would think about it like this - put a super-soft topper on a wood floor, it needs to absorb 100% of your shape, you’ll bottom out & that’s no good. On a medium firm surface, now there’s more of a transition of impact happening, better chance it’ll work as part of a functional system. And so on. Part of knowing what to look for is determining just how ‘too firm’ what you own is. (I learned I needed at least 2 tiers to make mine work, it was just that off the mark.)
Something to think about - I read all the tutorials too and got lots of advice and still felt at sea in a store. What helped me start to understand what to look for was a trip to a local Sleep Number dealer. (Though if you give them your info they will be calling!) They put you on a bed at it’s firmest, then soften it as you watch a screen where a display of your body’s impact changes colors. Just part of their sales pitch, but still, I never really appreciated the distinction between support and pressure until I had it visualized as I felt it happening. Now that I get that, I don’t feel lost anymore, and my decisions have been a million times better. (Anyway, it helped me, so just a thought.)
Final thoughts - there are various feather beds or down substitute beds etc. that are reasonably priced, and I have friends who really like those. Also, part of the reason the toppers at Clean Bedroom are so expensive is they come sewn into an enclosure, if you just find a place to sell you straight foam, the price is much lower. Finally, buying toppers can really suck, as in many places they’re not returnable. So test as many products as you can personally, people will recommend what ‘might’ work but only you can really decide.
I hope this was a helpful contribution to your situation and to the forum. Good luck![/quote]
Yeah, that was helpful.
I want to make a purchase today and get this done with but I this is just too difficult and I’m almost ready to give up. I’m worried though about making a bad decision again, which is easy when I can’t try anything out physically. Plus the prices are obscene. When everything is said and done, replacing my bed will have cost $1000+ and I doubt I will be satisfied at all. I thought replacing my old mattress would be a real upgrade to my life because I’d be getting good sleep (something I never really get), but all it is is a way to spend a lot of money on something which doesn’t feel right (the same exact thing happened with my new glasses, they are so off in terms of quality; I consider them a POS).
I’ve decided to go with a Talalay 2" layer, like the 14-19 ILD. I ruled about polyfoam because another post on here says that finding GOOD polyfoam can be difficult and a lot of correspondence might be require. I have no confidence in that now. http://www.spindlemattress.com/pages/selecting-the-correct-firmness takes BMI into account, which is pretty useful, so now I’m trying to really find a low ILD. I can’t find anything that does it all, like a low ILD, 2", and not obscenely priced. One thing is always missing, like they are 3", not 2, they are obscenely priced, or ILDs are never listed.
Is Talalay “bouncy” too, though like when you push down does it kinda push “back”, like a trampoline… I found this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hTFilYJp5A) which I think is really helpful because it shows the two different kinds in action, but the narrator says dunlop is not bouncy. However, when she compares the two, it sure looks bouncy to me! The Talalay also looks like it has that slow, memory foamish sinking that I hate. Does it feel bouncy.
Hi Better,
Without testing any material, there’s a high risk that the material you get is not to your satisfaction. And, there’s no means for anyone on this forum to assuredly tell you what to get. You seem like you’re on a budget at the lower end, which does make shopping harder.
Yes, both talalay* and Dunlop are fast responding, like a trampoline, but both feel different. *Note there is a type of slow response talalay, called talalay gl slow response, which is slower responding.
14 and 19 ild talalay is pretty soft. For many people too soft, especially the 14. If you’re light, in the 100-120 lbs, these might be less risky.
Dunlop isn’t usually documented with an ild… It’s more common to see it identified by density or simple words like soft, med, firm. Unfortunately, the words aren’t consistent between vendors.
If you call a company, such as SleepEZ or mattresses.net that specializes in plates of latex, they can assist also using info about your size, weight, sleeping habits, and things you want.
Also, to the extent your budget can afford it, I’d treat the purchase of your bed as a process, where you iterate to a level of comfort you prefer. It’s quite common for people to need to try a couple/few modifications to really tune it in for themselves (less so if they can sleep on anything, more so if they need the perfect sleeping surface).
[I could have sworn I posted this already, but the post is now totally missing]
Well, I’m about to pull the trigger, but I was just wondering if I could get this final piece of info: do you think there is a huge difference between ILD 15 and ILD 20? I could get the 20 for much cheaper, but it’s higher ILD than I was looking at. A difference of 5 doesn’t’ seem like much to me, but since I have no experience, I could be wrong.
Hi Better,
It would depend to some degree on the sensitivity of the person. I don’t think I would call the difference huge but for most people it would be quite noticeable yes (it’s about a 25% difference). If the type and blend of the latex is not the same it can also make a difference in how they would compare.
Phoenix