DYI finalizing, including googledoc with all recommended Latex vendors with prices

[phoenix]

Hi SeanD,

Non-quilted, sure, but what about any other stretchy-type covers? Do you know of any other stretchy cover examples off hand? I’m failing to see any aside from simple terry cloth covers, which are non-quilted, but not really stretchy in the same way that a stretch-knit cover would be.

I don’t know for certain because I haven’t talked with them about the specifics of their covers but outside of SleepEz’s cover a few other options for more stretchy knit covers include …

Queen Organic Cotton Zippered Mattress Cover, Replacement Mattress Covers

https://sleeplikeabear.com/topper_covers

ZIPPER COVERS & PROTECTORS

https://mattressunderground.com/the-underground/our-trusted-members

Organic Mattress Covers | FoamOrder

http://stores.ebay.com/mattresses247/

There may be others as well.

Foamforyou claims that they sell 6" talalay cores, whether or not that is true i have no idea

Based on my conversations with them I don’t believe it’s true.

What would be the approximate equivalent ILD for talalay be for a 32.5 ILD, synthetic, continuous pour dunlop? Reworded for clarity: If i was trying to mimic the firmness (and only the firmness, not the point elasticity or any other property) of a 32.5 ILD, synthetic, continuous pour dunlop layer using talalay, what would an equivalent ILD be?

ILD is only tested at 25% or 40% compression and is usually tested on a 6" core but in some cases the testing may be on a core with a different thickness … all of which will affect the ILD rating. In addition to this … it would be very unlikely that you would sink into a material exactly 25% with every part of your body and if the percentage compression is different then the firmness at that percentage compression would be different as well even if the ILD was the same. In addition to this … several companies have told me that for whatever reason their ILD testing doesn’t “match” the ILD testing of other companies so if they are supplying customers that are using another company’s latex that is considering switching suppliers they need to first find out how closely their ILD’s match and then supply the product that seems to be the closest … even if the ILD’s aren’t the same. I don’t think you can make meaningful comparisons between different types of latex based on ILD alone and it would be much more accurate to go by the experience of a manufacturer or retailer who can “ballpark” the comparison based on their personal experience. Neal is more familiar with the synthetic Dunlop than I am and is also very familiar with Talalay and should be able to tell you how they compare (NOTE ADDED: Spindle now only sells the 100% natural continuous pour Dunlop).

Is there anyway i can make a 38-40 ILD layer ‘work’ in place of the 36 ILD layer by altering other layers slightly to approximate the feel of my proposed design (3, 3" layers: 19-28-36)?

They both may “work” already (depending on what you mean by work) but in general any change you make to a mattress compared to a reference mattress will have some effect depending on how it interacts with all the other layers and components and with a specific person. Some people will be more sensitive to some types of changes and some may not feel them at all. The difference between 36 ILD and 38 ILD in deeper layers of the same type, blend, and thickness of latex would be undetectable to most people and would be inside the range of the ILD variance of a material. This is the part where you will need to use trial and error to decide on whether any specific design works well for you in terms of PPP and which changes you can feel. Getting this involved in specs will generally lead to surprising outcomes … especially if you don’t have the experience or specific reference points that you have tested. I would always keep in mind that latex doesn’t come in specific ILD’s that are exact and there is always a range of firmness levels across the surface (see post #6 here and post #26 here).

Would two, 3" layers of 30-32 ILD Talalay feel similar to one, 3" layer of 28 ILD over one, 3" layer of 36 ILD Talalay? Obviously the compression modulus would be different for both arrangements, so they aren’t truly going to feel the ‘same’, but if i was to test them blinded, could i realistically tell the two apart?

This would probably depend on where they were in the design and what was on top of them and it would also depend on the person. Some people would say that it made a significant difference and others would say they don’t feel any difference at all.

Am i correct in assuming that the 30-34 ILD NR dunlop would feel similar to a ~36 ILD talalay layer (since, in theory at least, dunlop is ‘firmer’ because of the difference in the compression modulus)?

I wouldn’t try to use ILD to compare different types of latex … only to make comparisons between the same type and blend. They will have a different “feel” that different people will “translate” differently. In a comfort layer it would probably be fair to say that 100% natural Dunlop will probably “feel” one step firmer to most people than the same ILD in Talalay (assuming that the ILD is listed correctly) but once you are looking at deeper layers then there are must too many variables to really know how they may compare for any particular person (outside of their general characteristics).

For the top/comfort layer i’m planning to go with either a synthetic, continuous pour, dunlop layer (18-22 ILD) from Spindle Mattress or a blended talalay layer (19 ILD) from Brooklyn Bedding for $324 shipped. How would these two products compare in terms of feel and longevity?

Mountaintop’s testing indicates that their softer synthetic continuous pour Dunlop should be a very durable material so I am keeping an open mind and am curious to see how this plays out over the years so I would say it’s promising but it will be some time before I will feel fully confident about how it compares to other types of latex in terms of durability based on “real life” performance. I am more optimistic about how their softer synthetic Dunlop will hold up over time relative to other types of latex in a similar softness level than I am about the firmest versions of their synthetic latex.

Based on conversations with Neal and on some samples I have … they are very soft and possibly even softer than Talalay but they are not as resilient or “lively”.

Would i be making a mistake and/or compromising the useful lifespan of my mattress by going with a ‘cheap’ jacquard velour cover such as this one here instead of a one similar to the SleepEZ Stretch-knit?

I’m not familiar with the cover you linked so I really don’t know how it would affect the feel or durability of the latex and they don’t mention the material in the description. In cases like this the most reliable answer would be looking back years down the road to see how it affected the latex. I would hesitate to use a “cheap” cover with premium materials and I would personally tend to put more weight on the reliability, knowledge, and experience of the supplier when I was making choices like this where you are looking for an answer that really isn’t possible to know with any certainty.

Overall … I think you may be crossing the threshold into a level of complexity that can work against you and you may be getting overly analytical, trying to make choices based on specs that won’t really tell you what you want to know, and without having enough “real life” reference points to really know how they will “translate” into your own personal experience. I think that the only way to find answers with the degree of specificity that you are looking for will be your own personal experience.

I would keep things much more simple, use a “standard” combination as your frame of reference, and then use your own personal experience as the reference point to make any further changes from there.

Phoenix