Thank you Phoenix and Magpie! I must admit I am a little nervous for our new mattress to arrive. I have been sleeping on a tempurpedic for the last 10 years and, even though it’s been causing lots of issues for me, change is hard!
I will definitely check out the st dormeir cover - that does sound very close to what I am looking for. I may try contacting a Cozy Pure and Spindle as well to see if they might be willing to put together a cover with just their top wool layer.
Regarding the fire resistance, I am ok with not being strictly to code but I like the idea of having some resistance. Your comment does explain why the mattress has a large sticker on it stating that it was made according to a doctor’s prescription and to beware that a large fire could start if the mattress comes in contact with flame. I guess Seattle Natural Mattress got the health exemption you mentioned.
It’s normal to go through a period of "retrogression’ as you adjust to any new sleep surface. Hopefully within a few weeks you’ll become accustomed to your new mattress. Does Seattle Natural Mattress allow for customization or exchanges after your purchase for a period of time? I couldn’t find anything on their web site – quite limited there.
Thank you - I will try to be patient during the transition!
I agree there’s not much information on the Seattle Natural Mattress website. Tim, the owner, told us that for the first 30 days we can return the mattress for a full refund. After that, he will switch out layers for us if we decide we want to go firmer or softer. I am hoping none of that will be necessary, but it’s nice to know we have options just in case.
That’s good to know they are willing to work with you. Being a custom mattress manufacturer, I was hoping they’d be able to provide such an option. Yes, hopefully you won’t need to explore any of those possibilities.
Well, we received our new latex mattress last Friday (4 sleepless nights ago) and I am really struggling with it. I was expecting some adjustment period, but I am so uncomfortable on this bed that I haven’t slept more than 3 hours at a time since we got it. I am not sure what to do or even what the problem is, so I would love some guidance.
I think the mattress does feel pretty nice and supportive from the waist down, but my upper body is in a world of pain all night. I have tried a dozen different pillows and none of them make it tolerable. On my back (my most preferred sleep position) I used to sleep without a pillow, but I feel like I need one on this mattress. No matter how flat though, every pillow feels like it’s pushing my head too far forward and my neck aches. My thoracic spine also aches from the pressure of the mattress. On my side (my second most preferred sleeping position), my shoulders and neck ache, no matter how thick a pillow I use.
I think the mattress is too firm, but when I tried the softer model in the store (which has two layers of the 2" soft talalay instead of one) it felt too bouncy. Like the whole bed was just bouncing around under me.
The other (even more perplexing) issue I am having is with temperature regulation. After sleeping on a tempurpedic mattress for 10 years, I figured latex would feel cool and breezy in comparison. To the contrary, I am constantly overheating now. I go through a never-ending cycle of throwing the covers off in a sweat and then shivering and covering back up. I thought latex was supposed to have less heat retention than memory foam, so I am perplexed. And uncomfortable.
I should say that the st dormier wool cover might help a tiny bit with the heat regulation, but not enough to get me out of the overheating/cold sweat cycle. Also, I have tried the mattress with and without the cover and both ways are supremely uncomfortable for me in terms of posture and pressure.
Last night, in desperation, I went scouring the internet for information and came upon “the old bed guy” website. He seems to think a latex/coil hybrid is the only way to go. I am wary of latex now because of my overheating and the feeling that my bed is trying to push me off of it, but I love the idea of it for quality and health reasons. I would like to stay away from memory foam, so maybe a latex/coil hybrid would be a better fit for me. I am more confused that ever…
I’m sorry you’re having a rough time adjusting to your new mattress, but it’s only been four nights, so hopefully things will get better for you.
The pillows wouldn’t necessarily be the best way make your comfort in your upper body feel better, although they can certainly have an effect. It would have the most dramatic impact in your lower thoracic/upper cervical region. What you’re describing “sounds” like something that has a bit too firm of a surface comfort.
Not knowing what type of pillows you have available, it sounds as if all of them ae too thick or too resilient for your preference. You would have “sunk in” more in your Tempurpedic, and since you’ll be “on” this mattress more than “in” it, needing some type of support for your head makes sense.
Again, these sound more like pressure issues, especially coming from memory foam to latex.
You seem to be describing something that might be “too firm”, and you also will have a bit of a “learned alignment” from sleeping upon a memory foam product, so these two things combined certainly could be contributing to your discomfort. My first course of action would be to phone Seattle Natural Mattress or stop by in person and speak to them of your concerns. They may have other options for adding plushness to your mattress besides what you tried in their showroom.
Talalay latex is the most breathable of all foams, that is true. But every layer you change will have an impact upon your temperature regulation. There is more about the many variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress or sleeping system in post #2 here. Have you tried going back to the same mattress pad/sheet combination that you used to use and see if that makes a difference in your temperature? And I wouldn’t expect your new mattress pad to have much of an impact upon your comfort based upon your comments.
You can see my comments about the Old Bed Guy and his website (and some of the very strange comments he makes) in this topic . There is “some” good information on his site and some information that is questionable at best, and misleading, inaccurate, or deceptive at worst. You can find sites that say coils are the only way to go, memory foam is the only way to go, natural beds are the only way to go, polyfoam beds are the only way to go, etc. None of them would be able to predict what is best for you, as that can only be accomplished through your own testing and personal results.
My best suggestion to you is to have a detailed conversation with your retailer and see what suggestions that they may offer up to help you with your situation, as they would be most knowledgeable about their product and have the experience to work through common “issues” that people have experienced with them. After just a few nights, I’d personally try to work with what I had and give that a longer chance before looking at other options and starting anew, which is certainly an option with the product you chose.
Thanks so much for your detailed response, Phoenix. Your help is much appreciated during the stress of mattress transitioning! Ever since we got this mattress, I am getting more and more aches in my lower thoracic spine that are starting to stick around during the day. I am a bit concerned that I am doing damage by continuing to sleep (or lie awake) on it.
I called Tim, the owner of Seattle Natural Mattress (who is very kind and easy to work with, by the way), and he suggested that we stop in and borrow a 2" soft talalay topper from him and sleep on that for a while. I am not super hopeful since this set up felt unstable to me in the store, but it certainly seems worth trying. If that feels good, then he will alter our mattress to add a thicker layer of soft talalay (or we can just buy the topper). I am worried that this setup wont feel supportive enough and might throw me out of alignment, but I have my fingers crossed that this will be the answer and I can stop fretting about mattresses.
I am still concerned that an all latex mattress wasn’t the best choice for me though. I think the push back feeling of latex might not work well for my body. I feel like I can’t really relax in the bed and the bony parts of my upper body aren’t getting good pressure relief. I know that it’s not wise to base mattress choices off of other people’s experiences, but I came upon a member of this forum who has similar issues to mine (chronic pain, scoliosis, and being a small/light-ish female) who ended up purchasing a Tuft and Needle bed and loving it. For now, that is my backup plan if we have to return this mattress. I love the idea of latex (quality, durability, environmentally sound) and kind of hate the idea of polyfoam, but at this point I just want to sleep!
As far as temperature regulation - the only thing that makes any sense is that the latex does conform to my body quite thoroughly. While on my back, on the old tempurpedic, I could slide a hand under the small of my back. On the latex, there is no space there. So maybe this explains why I am sleeping hotter. The sheeting and mattress cover are pretty much the same (same cotton material, but we went from a queen to a king, so they are new). The cold and hot sweaty feeling reminds me of sleeping under polyester sheets though, so I’m not sure what to do about that. Maybe adding more wool would help?
I had no idea that “the old bed guy” was related to the charles p rogers company he so highly recommends. Thank you for sharing that. That information plus the company’s horrible return policy is enough to take them off my list of considerations. And anything that simplifies this process is a bonus!
You’re welcome. I wish I was able to offer more definitive solutions, but from a distance all I can provide is general information about different products. And personally, I wouldn’t’ have a concern about sleeping upon an “uncomfortable” mattress for a few weeks, as it still is providing good alignment.
I’m glad Tim is being quite accommodating to you, as your own personal testing will be the best indicator if this is a route that you may wish to continue to pursue. I’d worry less about what you “might” think a combination will feel like, and instead rely upon your actual testing throughout the night. Then you’ll know for sure and have proof better than any theory either of us have bene discussing. I’m not aware of the ILD of the core you have in your mattress, so I can’t speak to the overall “firmness”, but you’ll be able to assess quite quickly if you feel that you’re sinking in too deeply and if it’s causing alignment issues.
Latex certainly is more resilient (what some people refer to as “pushback” – the energy it returns) than the memory foam that you were used to, and it may be the end result that you don’t have an affinity for this particular type of product. There are many cases where, regardless of the high quality of the materials, the comfort does not align with a person’s personal PPP. There really is no right or wrong answers – just what is best for you. The addition of the topper to your existing mattress should assist with your surface comfort.
This certainly could be the case, as latex will be very point elastic, and there is more latex in the mattress you’re currently trying than there was memory foam in your old mattress.
I personally would focus more upon your comfort and mattress selection first, then address your temperature regulation issues, just in case you end up returning your current mattress. There will come a point where you can add too much wool and it would most likely insulate more than you would desire.
Keep me updated after you try out the new toper and if this makes things better worse.
Oh! I didn’t realize I hadn’t provided the specifications of the mattress. I am not entirely sure what all the numbers mean, but the mattress consists of a 6" dunlop base (D85 medium firm) and a 2" Talalay comfort layer (N4 ILD18 soft). This is on top of a a closely spaced wood foundation from the same company.
We just picked up the topper, so tonight we will be adding another 2" of the soft talalay to the setup. Hopefully that improves things. I need some sleep! I will update tomorrow.
Thank you for that information. I thought that you were on the Dunlop core alone. The Dunlop core of 85 kg/M3 is about 5.3 lb density, or a firmer ILD rating of approximately 34-38. Your Talalay topper is certainly in the ultra plush range of 18 ILD.
Whelp, the last person to use the topper must have had an accident because it wreaks of urine :-/ . I tried it briefly before realizing the smell was not in my head. The extra softness definitely helped, but it also changed the supportive feel too much. It was starting to feel like a hammock and unstable. It’s possible that 3" of soft topper might be the sweet spot (vs the 2" + 2" i just tried), but I’m starting to think this means we need to return the mattress and explore non-latex options. I was so hoping for this to be simple!
That’s too bad about the odor issue with the topper. I’d be sure to let Tim know about that, as I’m sure he wouldn’t have wanted to send you a topper to test that was objectionable in odor. Unfortunately, not being able to try the item for a long period of time didn’t give you the best chance for analysis, but you did get a bit of a confirmation on what you had experienced in the showroom.
It may end up being the case that you do not prefer the buoyant feel of latex and you may decide to go back to the feel you had before of memory foam. There is also the strong possibility that your current options for customization aren’t allowing you to achieve the comfort you desire, and if you decide you’d like to investigate latex again from another manufacturer you may benefit from a component system with more choices and layers in the 3" range, along the lines of something like this. Manufacturers like this will offer a wider range of latex softness (ILDs) from which to choose, and some even allow for a substitution of a memory foam layer for one of the latex layers in case you wanted to keep some of the feel of memory foam. But that’s just a thought in case you wish to continue to pursue latex. If you do wish to look online, a good place to start is to use the experience and expertise of the members listed in post #21 here who are all very experienced and knowledgeable and specialize in providing the type of help and guidance on the phone that can help you make good choices. There are a wide range of latex and memory foam and other options included in the choices there and I believe that all of them compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, and transparency.
I’m interested to learn if you get a new topper to test of if you decide to make another choice.
Thank you for your reply! We brought the topper back to Tim today and he was as horrified about the smell as we were. He immediately offered a new topper to try. I also tried out the model in the store that has 3" of soft talalay over the firm dunlop core. It is hard for me to tell in the store, but I don’t think I liked the feeling. It was somehow too mushy and too firm at the same time. I will try out the topper at home and see how that goes though. Tim is so great to work with, I would love to find a way to make this work.
We did visit Soaring Heart because we were in the area and wanted to try out some different configurations. I didn’t like most of the beds we tried there. I think the twill quilting they add detracts from the foam’s ability to mold to your body and that’s a feature I really need. The one bed I liked there was the OMI 81, which is ridiculously expensive. I think the “sculpted 3” topper" made the bed stand out to me. That sculpting added the more plush and contouring feeling that I was missing from memory foam. So my next question is whether there is a similarly “sculpted” soft latex that we could buy somewhere else? I tried to search for something, but didn’t have much luck. If we could find that, it might be perfect just to layer that over the 6" of firm dunlop from Seattle Natural Mattress.
Tomorrow I am going to visit the Sleep Store in Bellevue to try and get a feeling for different latex configurations. It looks like that have a few that are simply encased in stretchy fabric the way I prefer.
Thanks again! Hopefully these updates aren’t annoying. I think it helps me to sort out what is and isn’t working for me.
I agree that it would be nice if you could find a combination that would work with all of the assistance that Tim and Seattle Natural Mattress has been providing. I don’t know if he has any other ILD combinations that might work, perhaps with a slightly firmer transition layer.
Soaring Heart makes some very nice mattresses, but as you mentioned they are constructed differently than what you prefer, so while high in quality, their “fit” doesn’t seem to be what is best for your personal PPP.
Finding convoluted latex is very difficult. Foam order has a latex convoluted topper. There is a little more about convoluted latex toppers here.
Your updates are welcome. Sometimes it’s nice having a record and being able to refer back to what did and didn’t work.
I wanted to give a quick update in case anyone is curious! Sadly, we ended up returning the Seattle Natural Mattress. I am disappointed that it didn’t work out and still somewhat confused how such a popular bed was so extremely uncomfortable for both me and my husband. I am finicky, but my husband can sleep on pretty much anything and has no physical issues. When even he was waking up with back aches and neck pains, I knew we had to return the mattress.
We ordered a Tuft and Needle mattress to replace it. I was ambivalent because I don’t love the idea of poly foam and I tend to want to invest more money in something as important as a mattress. But it got such good reviews from people with physical conditions like mine and I was desperate for something I could sleep on. It seemed worth trying, especially with the amazing return policy. We’ve been sleeping on it for a few nights and I am happy to report that I am enjoying it so far. It is miles more comfortable than the latex bed, which isn’t saying much but I am relieved! I think my alignment is pretty good on it and I don’t need a pillow while on my back. I think I could use a touch more conforming support when on my side, but maybe I will get that as the mattress breaks in more.
My only complaint with the Tuft and Needle mattress is that it does have some off-gassing odor. It smells very similar to the Tempurpedic off-gassing, but much less potent. I worry about the health effects, but finally getting some sleep counts for something as well!
My plan is to keep sleeping on the tuft and needle for a month and see how I am feeling, but at this point I think I would like to add a topper to give the bed a slightly cozier feeling. I am considering the CozyPure Lanoodle topper. I have a couple of the Lanoodle pillows and enjoy the feeling of the latex “noodles” much more than shredded latex or solid latex. I imagine they would make a nice snuggly sleeping surface without interfering too much with the support I am getting from the mattrress.
I think I read that Phoenix sleeps on a Lanoodle topper, so I was wondering if you could share how much the noodles shift around while you sleep. Does the surface end up feeling uneven or bumpy? I really hate an uneven sleeping surface and don’t want to be messing around with positioning the noodles while I am sleeping. I was also surprised to see that the topper is made of a cotton sateen instead of the stretchy knit they use in the pillows. Does this take away from the conforming pressure-relief properties of the sleep surface at all?
I’m sorry to hear that this mattress didn’t turn out to be a “fit” for you , but at least you had the foresight to purchase something that did allow for a return.
While reviewers are often well-meaning, the appropriateness or popularity of something for someone else has little to do with your own potential affinity for a product, which unfortunately was the case here. It could be something as simple as you don’t enjoy the resilience of latex, the feel of the particular combinations of latex you tried, or a myriad of other reasons. No matter the level of quality of a product, if it isn’t a match for your own personal PPP, then it’s simply not a good fit for you, and that’s the most important thing.
Congratulations on your new replacement mattress! :cheer: You are correct that it will soften a bit as time goes on, so hopefully it will begin to feel a bit better for you when you’re on your side.
It would be normal for the polyfoam to have some odor to it, but this should dissipate within the first few weeks, so hopefully it will be less of an issue for you after that time.
I would doubt that the Lanoodles topper would be an issue since it would have more of an effect on the surface feel and add some additional “cush” and pressure relief to your mattress but it wouldn’t have a significant effect on alignment, although your own experience and trial and error will always be a more reliable way to know for certain than “theory”. The use of the cotton sateen is more of a structural and practical issue for the product, and is more of an appropriate outer casing material for this type of product. The latex noodles are quick “sticky” and will tend to keep positon quite well, but as with all loose-fill toppers periodic fluffing or repositioning would be normal.
Thank you for your reply regarding the Lanoodle topper Phoenix! It sounds like a great surface option, though I should probably figure out the mattress itself first I am realizing.
Another update: The smell was not dissipating, so I wrote to tuft and needle and they immediately replied with an offer to send out a replacement. They think the smell may have been caused by a manufacturing defect. We should get the new mattress on Tuesday. Their customer service has been truly stellar.
Unfortunately, I am not sure the mattress will end up working out for us. I have started experiencing a lower back ache (which is different from my usual aches and pains) while sleeping on my back on this mattress. I think that my pelvis is sinking in too far. I have this sensation of sliding down toward the foot of the bed. I keep wanting to adjust myself back up towards the head of the bed. Tonight I am going to put a yoga mat at the hip area of the bed to see if that makes a difference. It is too bad because the mattress is quite comfortable for side sleeping.
I am considering an Oso mattress if this one doesn’t work out. It also has an excellent return policy and I like the idea of a softer shoulder area for side sleeping. I think this would be good for my sensitive upper spine while sleeping on my back as well. I am concerned about pressure points at my hips while side sleeping, but it seems like it may be impossible to get a mattress that is perfect for both side and back sleeping. Especially for someone whose hips and shoulders stick out significantly from their waist.
I would love to try a Cozypure mattress, but after having a very popular latex mattress not work for me at all, I can’t imagine ordering a mattress with no return policy. Even if I could try it in the store, the experience of sleeping on a mattress has proven to be so different from the try-out experience. I may give them a call to see if they think it sounds like a good fit though.
You’re welcome. I would agree with you that you should focus first on the mattress, then potentially some sort of topper, if you so desired.
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Another update: The smell was not dissipating, so I wrote to tuft and needle and they immediately replied with an offer to send out a replacement. They think the smell may have been caused by a manufacturing defect. We should get the new mattress on Tuesday. Their customer service has been truly stellar
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I’m glad that T&N was responsive to your request. Simple things like a few percent change in humidity can alter the odor of a batch of polyfoam when it is created, and something simple like this could have been the result with a piece of foam in your particular mattress. I hope that’s the case and your new item better meets your preferences. Are you still using the same closely-spaced slatted foundation with this mattress?
The OSO (a site member here) does have a unique construction, but as you mentioned only though your own testing will you be able to tell if you like the construction for both your shoulders and hips. If you’re considering a completely zoned system, the FloBeds VZone might be worth considering. They are extremely experienced with zoned mattress systems, and are also a site member here, which means that I think highly of them, their products and advice.
CozyPure (as you know a member here of this site, which means I think highly of them as well) does use high quality and durable materials in their mattresses, and I do think highly of the advice that they provide, and a phone call would be your best way to make specific inquiries about their products. Their only location for testing their items is in Norfolk, VA, at their facility, or two boutique hotels in Maryland and Virginia.
Thanks for your reply! That is interesting about how tiny variations can cause a batch of polyfoam to behave differently. The replacement Tuft and Needle mattress arrived last Tuesday and the smell is much less noticeable. It is already nearly undetectable - so that is good news. Unfortunately, I don’t think the supportive qualities of the foam are any different. It still feels like my pelvis is “sinking down” too far and I wake up with soreness in my lower mid back. It also seems to be exacerbating some of my existing low back pain issues. I am disappointed because the mattress feels extremely comfortable to me, until I wake up in pain. I am also confused why it wouldn’t be supporting me since it is known as a firm mattress (and at 125lbs I shouldn’t be pushing any weight limits).
I am having trouble using our failed mattress trials to guide our next mattress purchase. With my track record it seems wise to stick to companies with robust return policies and I’d like to try something different. After many hours of searching, the Avocado Green mattress looks like the most appealing option to me. The pocketed coil/latex combination seems like it might work better for me than the solid latex foam mattress did. I am a little worried about the comfort layer being too firm though. According to the website, their pillow-top mattress uses “three seamless layers of Dunlop latex — 2 inches in the Euro-top layer (D75 / 24-28 ILD, soft), 2 more inches in the comfort layer (D75 / 24-28 ILD, soft), and a denser 1-inch layer (D95 / 36-38 ILD, firm) as a core base component.” 24-28 ILD dunlop seems pretty firm for the top layer, which makes me think I may end up wanting to add a topper. And if I’m adding a separate topper, maybe the basic mattress without the pillow-top would be a better choice. But my goal is to get the mattress itself as close to my ideal comfort profile as possible and the Avocado Green person I spoke with said the pillow-top is much better for side-sleeping. I am very close to ordering, but thought I’d check in and get your thoughts before I do. Thanks in advance!
There’s quite a bit that goes on in pouring polyfoam, and you’re correct that small variations can produce different results in the feel (and odor) of a batch of foam.
The feel of the foam shouldn’t be any different from the first mattress you tested, only the odor.
The mattress itself certainly has materials that are capable of supporting you (preventing you from bottoming out and stopping the sinking of the heavier parts of your body), but it may be that you don’t prefer the level of surface comfort that theeir polyfoam on top provides and with the various aches you’ve described previously you may desire a little more surface resilience.
I would agree with this, as you definitely have some very specific needs and sensitivities for your mattress. Localized testing would also be a plus if you can find another local retailer who has products that you think might suit your needs.
I agree with you that your goal should be to find a finished mattress that meets your needs, as throwing in a topper adds another variable to confuse the situation.
A 24-28 ILD would still be considered a plush to medium plush, and remember that all of the layers of a mattress work together, not individually. For example, if I placed a 2" piece of 24 ILD latex on the floor, you would lie down and it would bottom out and feel quite hard under the heavier areas of your body. But if I had a 6" piece of the same foam on the floor, you would lie back upon it and probably comment that it was a quite plush comfort. The point is that the layers within a mattress “bend into” each other, so I would take the completed mattress as a whole for evaluation, and when you’re not able to test out a product in person, use the advice of a knowledgeable retailer or manufacturer regarding the configurations that they offer that they feel will give you the best chance at success.
And yes, make sure to check out any polices they have for exchanging/customizing their products after purchase. I know Avocado doesn’t have options for customization – just a return within 100 nights for a full refund. You had also mentioned that you felt as if you were sinking in too much in your current mattress, and the Dunlop later should provide more surface resilience, but without as much of the “bounciness” that you didn’t like with the Talalay you tested before on your previous latex mattress. Avocado recommends their standard mattress for a back or stomach sleeper or someone who has back issues, and the pillowtop for someone who sleeps primarily on their side, as it contours more. They rate both of their mattresses on a bit of the “firmer” side of the spectrum (6 for the pillowtop and 7 for the standard with 10 being very firm). The firmer D95 latex is used under the spring unit, not on top, so you are left with only the D75 latex for the comfort layers, which when combined with their zoned spring unit, might provide the contouring support that you are desiring.
I’ll look forward to learning of any decision you make, or other questions you might come up with.
I’m not aware of the ILD of the core you have in your mattress, so I can’t speak to the overall “firmness”, but you’ll be able to assess quite quickly if you feel that you’re sinking in too deeply and if it’s causing alignment issues.
, but at least you had the foresight to purchase something that did allow for a return.