Youâre welcome. I would agree with you that you should focus first on the mattress, then potentially some sort of topper, if you so desired.
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Another update: The smell was not dissipating, so I wrote to tuft and needle and they immediately replied with an offer to send out a replacement. They think the smell may have been caused by a manufacturing defect. We should get the new mattress on Tuesday. Their customer service has been truly stellar
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Iâm glad that T&N was responsive to your request. Simple things like a few percent change in humidity can alter the odor of a batch of polyfoam when it is created, and something simple like this could have been the result with a piece of foam in your particular mattress. I hope thatâs the case and your new item better meets your preferences. Are you still using the same closely-spaced slatted foundation with this mattress?
The OSO (a site member here) does have a unique construction, but as you mentioned only though your own testing will you be able to tell if you like the construction for both your shoulders and hips. If youâre considering a completely zoned system, the FloBeds VZone might be worth considering. They are extremely experienced with zoned mattress systems, and are also a site member here, which means that I think highly of them, their products and advice.
CozyPure (as you know a member here of this site, which means I think highly of them as well) does use high quality and durable materials in their mattresses, and I do think highly of the advice that they provide, and a phone call would be your best way to make specific inquiries about their products. Their only location for testing their items is in Norfolk, VA, at their facility, or two boutique hotels in Maryland and Virginia.
Thanks for your reply! That is interesting about how tiny variations can cause a batch of polyfoam to behave differently. The replacement Tuft and Needle mattress arrived last Tuesday and the smell is much less noticeable. It is already nearly undetectable - so that is good news. Unfortunately, I donât think the supportive qualities of the foam are any different. It still feels like my pelvis is âsinking downâ too far and I wake up with soreness in my lower mid back. It also seems to be exacerbating some of my existing low back pain issues. I am disappointed because the mattress feels extremely comfortable to me, until I wake up in pain. I am also confused why it wouldnât be supporting me since it is known as a firm mattress (and at 125lbs I shouldnât be pushing any weight limits).
I am having trouble using our failed mattress trials to guide our next mattress purchase. With my track record it seems wise to stick to companies with robust return policies and Iâd like to try something different. After many hours of searching, the Avocado Green mattress looks like the most appealing option to me. The pocketed coil/latex combination seems like it might work better for me than the solid latex foam mattress did. I am a little worried about the comfort layer being too firm though. According to the website, their pillow-top mattress uses âthree seamless layers of Dunlop latex â 2 inches in the Euro-top layer (D75 / 24-28 ILD, soft), 2 more inches in the comfort layer (D75 / 24-28 ILD, soft), and a denser 1-inch layer (D95 / 36-38 ILD, firm) as a core base component.â 24-28 ILD dunlop seems pretty firm for the top layer, which makes me think I may end up wanting to add a topper. And if Iâm adding a separate topper, maybe the basic mattress without the pillow-top would be a better choice. But my goal is to get the mattress itself as close to my ideal comfort profile as possible and the Avocado Green person I spoke with said the pillow-top is much better for side-sleeping. I am very close to ordering, but thought Iâd check in and get your thoughts before I do. Thanks in advance!
Thereâs quite a bit that goes on in pouring polyfoam, and youâre correct that small variations can produce different results in the feel (and odor) of a batch of foam.
The feel of the foam shouldnât be any different from the first mattress you tested, only the odor.
The mattress itself certainly has materials that are capable of supporting you (preventing you from bottoming out and stopping the sinking of the heavier parts of your body), but it may be that you donât prefer the level of surface comfort that theeir polyfoam on top provides and with the various aches youâve described previously you may desire a little more surface resilience.
I would agree with this, as you definitely have some very specific needs and sensitivities for your mattress. Localized testing would also be a plus if you can find another local retailer who has products that you think might suit your needs.
I agree with you that your goal should be to find a finished mattress that meets your needs, as throwing in a topper adds another variable to confuse the situation.
A 24-28 ILD would still be considered a plush to medium plush, and remember that all of the layers of a mattress work together, not individually. For example, if I placed a 2" piece of 24 ILD latex on the floor, you would lie down and it would bottom out and feel quite hard under the heavier areas of your body. But if I had a 6" piece of the same foam on the floor, you would lie back upon it and probably comment that it was a quite plush comfort. The point is that the layers within a mattress âbend intoâ each other, so I would take the completed mattress as a whole for evaluation, and when youâre not able to test out a product in person, use the advice of a knowledgeable retailer or manufacturer regarding the configurations that they offer that they feel will give you the best chance at success.
And yes, make sure to check out any polices they have for exchanging/customizing their products after purchase. I know Avocado doesnât have options for customization â just a return within 100 nights for a full refund. You had also mentioned that you felt as if you were sinking in too much in your current mattress, and the Dunlop later should provide more surface resilience, but without as much of the âbouncinessâ that you didnât like with the Talalay you tested before on your previous latex mattress. Avocado recommends their standard mattress for a back or stomach sleeper or someone who has back issues, and the pillowtop for someone who sleeps primarily on their side, as it contours more. They rate both of their mattresses on a bit of the âfirmerâ side of the spectrum (6 for the pillowtop and 7 for the standard with 10 being very firm). The firmer D95 latex is used under the spring unit, not on top, so you are left with only the D75 latex for the comfort layers, which when combined with their zoned spring unit, might provide the contouring support that you are desiring.
Iâll look forward to learning of any decision you make, or other questions you might come up with.
Thanks for your last reply, Phoenix. It does seem like dunlop over encased coils might provide the support and cushioning Iâm after. We ended up ordering Avocadoâs âpillow topâ model and it should be delivered any day now, so I will let you know how we like it.
I thought the mattress would be the hardest part of our search, but finding a good bed frame is proving just as difficult. I am hoping Phoenix or other readers might have some insights into our bed frame struggles. We started out with the Tuft and Needle mattress on a platform frame from Keesa that we returned because the slats were too flexible and gave a slight âhammockâ effect. Then we had the Tuft and Needle mattress on the ground for a week or so while we looked for something else. I decided to go with a bed frame we could get locally so that I could make sure the slats were sturdy. We found this platform frame, made by Night and Day:
The slats are much more rigid that those on the Keesa frame, so I thought it would be perfect. Unfortunately sleeping on the frame revealed a lot of motion that I didnât notice in the store. I am waking up several times a night to a small earthquake sensation whenever my husband shifts position. The motion is a wobbling vibration type feeling. We didnât notice any motion transfer at all when the Tuft and Needle was on the ground, so I can only assume itâs the bed frame. The store sent someone out to check the frame and make sure everything was screwed in tightly, but that didnât help the issue. ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: bedroomsandmore.com/product/night-and-day-basic-bed/
I am at a loss for what to do now. I realize I donât even know what to look for in determining whether a bed frame will provide adequate support while not creating too much motion transference. The Night and Day frame feels quite solid and seems well built. My best guess is that the slats are transferring motion and maybe a frame that uses two sets (one on each side) would isolate motion better? I think that is how IKEAâs frames are built, but I would assume that was just for cost saving. I am attaching a picture of the underside of the Night and Day frame in case it can provide any helpful information. Thanks in advance for any thoughts!
Congratulations on your newest mattress purchase! I hope this one works out better for you and Iâll look forward to your comments on the Avocado.
Unfortunately thereâs not too much I can tell form a photo as to the potential issue of your motion transfer issues. But I can help you with a few general tests.
The photos show that you have a good center support beam, so thatâs a plus. It doesnât appear that there is any height adjustability with the legs of the center support beam, so that seems to rule out the possibility that these legs could be adjusted too tall and cause a wobble.
The next thing I would check is to see if the item âracksâ. This would be most easily tested by having someone lie down on the mattress when it is on the frame, and then grab the platform bed at each corner and see if you can get it to wobble by pushing it side to side. If the corners are not very tight, this could be a part of your problem.
Next, I would look under the platform bed as someone is on top on the mattress and have them roll from side to side. See if there is a bowing of the slats or see if the slats slide around a bit. If this happens, you can secure the slats to the center beam with wood screw or you can secure the slats to the side rail with small wood screws (if this isnât already done). You can also look to see if the platform bed itself âracksâ when someone moves around on the mattress. Another thing to look for would be to see if the mattress itself is sliding a bit on the slats. Finally, see if the platform bed legs themselves are sliding about a bit on the carpet. All of these things can amplify motion transfer within a mattress.
All of these would be the most logical things to look at for with a wobble in a platform bed.
Thank you so much for your thorough reply regarding the bed wobble. We tried out all your suggestions and our troubleshooting pointed to the slats transferring motion from bowing. From underneath, I could see how when my husband was on his side of the bed, the slats would bow down on his side and then up on my side. I think the center beam was creating a bit of a see-saw effect. Fortunately, the furniture store agreed to take the bed back in the end, so now we have a cheap IKEA foundation (the espevar) that isnât quite as attractive, but feels extremely solid.
On the mattress front, we are still in the trial period for the Avocado mattress, but I donât think itâs going to work out, sadly. It is a wonderful mattress and the company has been great to work with, but one of itâs nicest features is looking like a deal breaker for me. The mattress is âbutton-tuftedâ, rather than glued together, which gives it a very luxurious appearance. Unfortunately that type of mattress top doesnât seem to work for my sleeping style. I donât use a pillow while sleeping on my back, so the mounds and indents that the tufts create make it challenging to find a stable place for my head. We ended up adding a 2" topper because the mattress was a bit too firm for side sleeping and I thought that may help even out the mounds and indents, but they were still an issue.
The good thing is that this experience has given us some more information about our preferences. The Avocado pillow-top mattress with a 2" tuft and needle polyfoam topper was extremely comfortable for both of us in every way except the neck support issue I described above. So, now I am looking for a mattress that uses a similar zoned, encased coil support system with a high quality foam comfort layer, but no tufting (so that the mattressâs surface is flat). Do you happen to know of any mattresses like that? Preferably with a free sleep trial If I could create my own mattress, I think putting the top 5 inches of a tuft and needle mattress (2" firm support foam + 3" soft comfort foam) on top of the zoned coils would be amazing. I wish I had the tools to do it!
Iâm glad you were able to determine the issue and find a solution to your problem.
Iâm sorry the tufting in the Avocado doesnât agree with you. It is a good way to secure mattress materials together and the dips do tend to flatten a bit over time.
Keeping track of the individual mattresses or their specs that the retailers and manufacturers in the hundreds of forum lists throughout the forum carry or have available online would be a bigger job than anyone could keep up with in a constantly changing market, but you may wish to look online and use the experience and expertise of the members listed in post #21 here who are all very experienced and knowledgeable and some have hybrid options included in the choices there and I believe that all of them compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, and transparency. At a quick glance, mattresses.net, BayBed.com. My Green Mattress, Flexus, Luma Sleep, and Nest Bedding all offer pocketed spring mattresses using latex on top.
I hope this one works out better for you and Iâll look forward to your comments on the Avocado.