European sleep works and Berkley Ergonimics

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

Any info on these two brands European sleep works and Berkley Ergonimics?

2

Same thing :slight_smile: European Sleep Works sells Berkley Ergonomics. There are really only a handful of places around the country that sell Berkley Ergonomics & European Sleep works is one of them. There are a few others in CA, at least one on NY, Sovn here in Dallas and a few others around the country.

High quality materials and mattresses. We’ve had one about a year now and we’re still very pleased with it! Before this I couldn’t make it 6 months without ‘sag’.

3

Hi SleeplessinDallas,

Thanks for paying us a visit and it’s great to hear that things are still going well for you :slight_smile:

You certainly went through lots of “stuff” and grief before you finally found a mattress that works for you.

Phoenix

4

This is my dilemma, but a Berkley 8"latex model for $2775 or a Foamsweetfoam 12" for $2800. That is why I asked paying the same amount for less latex.

I guess the one good thing is Flybynight is within 25 minutes from me and they sell the Berkley there so I can try it. Where as the online retailers I can’t.

5

Hi yianni54,

Foam Sweet Foam also has a 9" version as well for about $600 less and there are also many other online options in the 8" to 9" range that would be suitable for your height and weight … many of which offer exchangeable layers if your first choice is not what you prefer.

I personally place a premium on the ability to try a mattress locally and if Flybynight is close to you I would take advantage of the ability to test an all latex mattress regardless of where you end up making a purchase.

You may also want to check http://ctmattress.com/ who carries Pure Latex Bliss in South Windsor and Avon (at least according to their site retail finder) which is an all Talalay latex mattress.

Phoenix

6

Will the extra 4" of latex ensure less sag in the future? Do I need an extra 4" of latex? Is Bekleys latex better than someone else’s latex?

How does Pure latex bliss compare to Berkely? Flybynight also carries the Pure Latex Bliss brand.

Thanks Phoenix!

7

Hi yianni54,

It depends more on the specific design and type of latex in the two mattresses you wanted to compare (and “it depends” is the norm for almost any question about mattresses) and you can see some of the many factors that contribute to durability in post #2 here but in most cases … probably not.

You may prefer it for various reasons but you don’t “need” it no.

There are many types of latex and Berkeley Ergonomics doesn’t make their own. It would be the same or very similar to other types of latex that used the same production method (Dunlop or Talalay) in the same “blend” of natural to synthetic (and I believe they use all natural in both types). So if you compare their latex in an apples to apples comparison with other latex or the same type and blend it would be the same. The designs, layering, firmness levels, and components of their mattresses may be different though from other manufacturers that used the same type of latex in their mattresses.

In terms of materials … Pure Latex Bliss uses blended Talalay and Berkeley Ergonomics uses 100% natural Dunlop and 100% natural Talalay. This article along with post #6 here and post #6 here have much more detailed information about the different types of latex and how they compare to each other.

Of course I can’t speak to how one mattress may compare to another in terms of how suitable it may be for you in terms of PPP or it’s relative “value” unless I know the specifics of the mattress itself and the price (and if you list the specifics I’d certainly be happy to give you my thoughts) and of course it’s value to you may be different from its “commodity value” as well. Generically though … both of these make “latex” mattresses of different types and can certainly be better value (depending on the price they are selling for) than most mainstream manufacturers and they would both be worth including in your research and testing.

Hope this helps

Phoenix

8

Ok, so I have it narrowed down. I went to Flybynight today. I tried the Berkley ergonomics and Pure Latex bliss. I found that I am not too crazy about the pocketed coils with latex on top system. I want to go pure Latex.

I have narrowed it down to the following choices:

  1. Bekley Ergonomics - 8" 100% natural latex, this has a 6" core with 2 " on top. $2,770

  2. Pure Latex Bliss - World Best Bed Model, this has 12" latex but it is a blended latex. $3,100

  3. Foam Sweet Foam - 12" 100% Natural Talalay (4 - 3" layers), $2799

I must say i did notice a difference between 8" of latex vs 12" latex when comparing the Berkley to the Pure latex Bliss.

I dont know if this was due to the 100% Talalay vs the Blended of the pure Latex Bliss or not?

Also, is there a benefit or a con to having one 6" piece of latex vs (2) 3" pieces of latex?

How is Pure latex Bliss as a company? Do they stand by their customers, never mind product?

Another question, How is the quality of Foam Sweet Foams zippered cover vs say PLB or Temper pedic?

I guess I am scared purchasing from an online retailer something that I havent tried.

Thanks again Phoenix!

9

Hi yianni54,

You have certainly eliminated all the “worst” options and narrowed things down to some good choices which is great to see :slight_smile:

While I can’t speak to which may be “better” for you because that has many different parts and is based on each person’s “value equation” … I can certainly make a few comments of things that I would be looking at in making a decision between them.

I think that this probably has to do with the specific layering of each and the ILD’s in each mattress much more than the differences in materials. While there is a difference in Dunlop (used in the Core layer of BE) vs Talalay that most people can feel … the difference between 100% natural Talalay and blended Talalay is much less obvious and many people can’t tell the difference at all. Of course the difference would be more noticeable in a mattress that was all one type of material than it would be in just a single layer.

In and of itself no. For someone that slept on a mattress which had a single 6" core layer that was perfect for them there would be no benefit in having two 3" layers of the same ILD. On the other hand … two separate layers that can be layered with different ILD’s can provide design flexibility that isn’t possible with a single 6" layer. In some cases this can be a benefit in terms of fine tuning a mattress for someone’s unique needs and preferences and there are also cases where this can introduce a level of complexity that can be confusing. In other words … it depends on the person and the goal of the design. Each has its pros and cons but one is not intrinsically “better” than the other.

They are owned by Latex International whch is one of the two main Talalay latex manufacturers in the world and the largest supplier of Talalay latex to mattress manufacturers in North America. They are very responsive to retailers (which are their customers because they don’t sell directly to consumers) but also to consumers as well.

They are very different because they have an organic cover quilted with organic wool which is very high quality and much more costly than either of the other unquilted covers you are mentioning. While some people prefer a thinner stretch knit cover (such as the one used in the PLB which is also high quality but not nearly as costly) others prefer wool in the quilting because it is used as a fire barrier (so they don’t need another type of fire barrier) and wool can regulate temperature very effectively. So this may also not be a “better worse” comparison but in cost and quality terms the FSF is certainly higher quality and a more significant part of the overall cost of the mattress. The BE also has a high quality wool quilted cover.

I understand this and it’s a common “feeling” when someone is considering an online purchase and is also part of what each person needs to take into account in their personal value equation.

Some suggestions about some of the differences between your choices that may be important to you or at least worth considering …

From a commodity point of view in terms of “value” … FSF uses a more costly version of latex in their mattresses (100% natural is more expensive than either Dunlop or blended Talalay and in the same range as Dunlop that is certified organic) and is the better “commodity value” of the three based on the relative cost of the materials and components in the mattress.

Both the FSF and the BE can be adjusted after the fact (to different degrees) if your choice needs some fine tuning while the only option with PLB to do this would be adding a topper or exchanging the mattress. FSF is the most customizable of all of them because you can re-arrange the layers if you need to and you can also do a layer exchange for one of your layers at the cost of one way shipping should you need this.

Both FSF and BE have the ability to replace a comfort layer down the road should this be necessary for durability reasons or changing comfort needs. With FSF you can replace any of the layers. PLB doesn’t have this ability.

Of course PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Personal preferences) is a significant part of the “value” of a mattress and only you can decide which you believe will best match your individual needs and preferences. I would make certain that in the testing you have done you have tested specifically for pressure relief and support/alignment on each mattress rather than just going by the more subjective standard of 'comfort". Because you haven’t tested the FSF … this would be “theoretical” based on your knowledge of similar materials, your conversations with the manufacturer, and on the ability to re-arrange or exchange layers. I normally use a 20% “premium” with an online manufacturer vs a local purchase as being roughly equivalent value but each person knows their own risk tolerance better than I do and may assign a different number to any added risk that they perceive.

I’m not sure if all of these include a foundation or if they are “mattress only” or for a set. If you are comparing prices for anything other than mattress only to mattress only then the comparison wouldn’t be comparing apples to apples. Anything that is added to the mattress purchase is part of its “value” including other services offered by each merchant and these would need to be compared separately from the mattresses themselves. I always prefer to compare each component separately (meaning mattress only to mattress only comparisons and then similar comparisons to any other extras that are included). This is a much more “accurate” way to compare the value of each mattresses.

I would also take into account that the Worlds Best Bed is the softest mattress they have and for many people it may be too soft for the best alignment once they sleep on it on a regular basis. For others it may be fine. Either way … I would make sure I had specifically tested it for alignment and not just evaluated it’s “comfort” which is a much more subjective and less accurate way to buy a mattress.

So hopefully this will give you some ideas about how to choose and compare so that you can better decide what to choose between some good options.

Phoenix

10

Phoenix,

These are all mattresses only. I’m gonna use my Boxsprings from my temper Pedic they are only a couple years old.

I’m leaning towards foam sweet foam, but I again I am just worried with this online thing. How do I know I’m getting real natural latex? How do I know this latex wasn’t a factory reject or a refurb? How do I know it wasn’t used?

What are your thoughts on Flo Beds? I also looked at the 1300 by SleepEz.

11

Hi yianni54,

All three of the companies you are mentioning are good companies run by knowledgeable people and have long term reputations for being good manufacturers and merchants. None of them would risk their reputation by selling “seconds” or inferior products IMO and they would have been “caught out” long ago if for some reason they decided to destroy successful businesses by resorting to deceptive practices.

Of the three … flobeds use good quality materials and they are 'good people" but they only sell blended and 100% natural Talalay (no Dunlop) and are not in the same “value range” as the other two and their prices in “apples to apples” comparisons are higher than both of the other two you are mentioning. You can read a brief comparison with SleepEz in post #2 here and a forum search on flobeds (you can just click this) will bring up lots more information about them.

SleepEz was invited to become a member of this site which means I believe they provide among the best quality, value, and service in the country. I certainly recommend them. A forum search on SleepEz (you can also just click this) will also bring up much more information about them including a great deal of feedback from forum members here.

Foam Sweet Foam doesn’t have the same selection as SleepEz (they only sell organic Dunlop and 100% natural Talalay and 3" layers) but with the mattresses they do sell they are very competitive with Sleepez and sometimes a little less and sometimes a little more in various models). They are in a similar value range to the members of this site and I think highly of them. A forum search on Foam Sweet Foam (you can just click this one as well) will also bring up more information about them.

Hope this helps.

Phoenix

12

Ok,Phoenix, I have the final two options:

  1. Sleepez - Organic Latex Mattress 13000, it says 100% natural talalay - $2,700 plus two free pillows and 5% off

  2. Foam Sweet Foam - 12" 100% natural talalay - $2,770

Who has or uses the better more quality latex?

The price is so close what are the real differences between hese two? They both have 4 - 3" layers.

How about the zippered cases? Who’s is better. Not that I would need it but I do like Sleepez return/warranty policy. Seems more friendly than FSF’s.

What are the real differences here?

Thanks

13

Also, FSF’S has a hybrid option, is it worth an extra $50 to go with extra firm Dunlop for base layer?

14

Hi yianni54,

They both offer this same option (Although sleepEz doesn’t charge extra for it) and I would base whether you choose it on the suggestions of each manufacturer during your more extended conversations with them. In a 4 x 3" layer mattress the deepest layer has less effect on the feel and performance of the mattress for most people than the layers that are closer to the person on the mattress.

As I mentioned in my reply here … once you are down to final choices between “good and good” only you can decide on the “real” difference between them based on all the objective, subjective, and intangible differences between them that are part of any mattress purchase, including your more extended conversations on the phone, that may be more or less important to you. At this stage there is no “better or worse” and anything you choose will be among the best quality/value in the country.

As I also mentioned before … Both offer the same latex as FSF uses although SleepEz has other options as well. FSF offers organic Dunlop and 100% natural Talalay. SleepEz offers orgainc Dunlop (from the same supplier) 100% natural Dunlop (which is from the same supplier but lower cost), and 100% natural and blended Talalay latex from two different suppliers (including Latex International that FSF uses).

You can read one member’s comparison of the two cases in post #5 here although I believe that SleepEz may have changed their cover and now use a slightly stretchier cover than they were at that time.

Final choices are often the most difficult part of all but in the end only you can know or decide which is best for you.

Phoenix

15

Thanks again Phoenix for all of your insight and assistance! We certainly did have many mattress adventures prior to deciding on our Berkeley Ergonomics ‘Willow’. :slight_smile: So far, still good! Whew!!!

I try to visit from time to time!

16

Phoenix,

Had a chance to speak with both today. Both Sean and Scott seem nice but it just doesnt feel like Scott wants to work with you. i told him I was also looking at Sleep Ez not to try and stir anything up, just being honest and his only response was that Foam Sweet Foam really uses a better cover than most. Is Foam Sweet Foams cover really that much better?

What is radium brand latex? Is it better than Latex International?

i guess I feel like I made my decision on Sleep Ez. If they are both getting their latex from Latex int. and I am getting 4 3" layers. Sleep Ez is less plus the 5% discount and 2 free pillows, and a much more lenient return policy. I have this feeling thought that Foam Sweet Foams latex is of better quality.

17

Hi yianni54,

My previous reply in post #14 here includes my comments about their covers and has a link to a member that has seen them both in person. I also believe that SleepEz is using a cover that is slightly stretchier than they were at that time (I believe it has a stretch knit on one side of the quilting) but they can confirm this for sure.

I treat them as equivalents. If a manufacturer offers a choice of either … I would go by their suggestion because they can provide the one that they believe is currently better quality or has a cleaner appearance.

The latex that they get from latex International is the same quality from the same supplier. SleepEz also has the option of using latex from Radium. I don’t know where your 'feeling" comes from but it certainly isn’t the case (if you are comparing Latex International to Latex International materials at least or even their Dunlop which also uses the same supplier)…

Phoenix

18

Dear SleeplessinDallas,

I got the same I Willow C mattress that you did at Sovn. What was it about the flexible slat base that did not work for you? I am trying my mattress on the floor right now since I feel like I am getting better alignment, but of course it is too hard on the hips and shoudlers on the floor. Did the regular base result in a significantly firmer feel? Did you notice any difference between the showroom mattress and the one that you got at home?

Thanks in advance for your reply. Glad you are no longer "Sleepless.:

Lisa

19

Phoenix,

just briefly I went in to a local shop today and was told that PLB does not have 100% talalay but a foam core, which I thought was odd, so can you confirm it’s all Talalay or was the sales person trying to steer me to their Latex bed? (probably the latter but just want to know for sure)

20

Hi tgrafix,

They have both.

Their “Natural” line here includes blended Talalay latex from top to bottom,

Their “All natural” line here includes 100% natural Talalay latex from top to bottom.

Their Hybrid line here includes blended Talalay (fast and slow response) in the comfort layers and a “bonded foam” support core which is made up of 90% polyfoam and 10% latex pieces which are bonded together in a resin.

Phoenix