Finally Checked out a Talalay Topper

[phoenix]

Hi Clawdia,

The larger issue to me is the hip pain - and after a 2nd night sleeping on the featherbed on the Dunlop mattress, the hip pain is now gone completely. That makes me absolutely sure that something needs to be done to “fix” the mattress so it does more good than harm.

If the hip pain is gone with the featherbed then you may have already solved the problem. Is there is something about the featherbed that isn’t working for you?

I think the hip pain is a result of too firm a sleeping surface, but I’d like your opinion as to whether feeling cold could be a factor with the hip pain as well as needing pressure relief in that area.

You would probably know more about how you react to different temperatures and cold than I would but I would think so yes. There are many people where temperature can have a significant effect on various symptoms.

I would also be open to the possibility that joints that are outside of their neutral range of motion from a mattress that is too soft can also be the cause of joint pain especially if there are connective tissue issues.

Phoenix

[Clawdia]

Hi Phoenix -

What isn’t working about the featherbed . . . for one thing, it’s several years old, the baffles aren’t holding the contents in place so the fill gravitates towards the edges and requires the bed be unmade, featherbed fluffed and allowed to loft, and then the bed re-made - every other day if not every day. So, I’d need to buy a new, better featherbed if that’s the solution I choose to try long term. I don’t feel as though my back alignment is as good sleeping on the featherbed as it should be, although any discomfort from that isn’t as disabling as the hip pain has been.

The other negative is that the featherbed keeps me from feeling like I’m sleeping on a latex bed, and I like the feel of latex. I may well have to give up that “like” in order to gain the needed comfort factor. Believe me, going back to permanently sleeping on a featherbed isn’t something I’ve ruled out at this point.

After having hot flashes for 20+ years, especially at night, I’ve been cold so seldom that I no longer have a clue as to how being cold while sleeping makes my body feel. We’ve lived in this house since 2008, and the first time I’ve had the heating vent open in my bedroom is in the past month - always before, I slept so hot that a room in the 60 degree range or even a tad lower felt just fine to me. So I agree that each person should be the best judge as to how temperature changes the feel of their body, but in my particular case that’s not necessarily true - else I’d not have had to ask if it were a possibility that it’s playing a role here.

One additional problem may be my body shape - unlike a lot of women, I don’t carry my weight in my hips, but more in the belly area, so even though I weigh in the 140 range I have pretty bony hips with very little padding. I also have broader shoulders than the female average. These are genetic factors, as my mother was the same.

The best plan I’ve been able to formulate so far is to try a soft Talalay 3" topper from a vendor with a return policy (that would limit me to SleepEZ, I believe, if I want all natural latex), and if that doesn’t work then buy a new featherbed and spend years regretting having bought my Dunlop mattress. I remain unsure what ILD would be best to try, considering how soft my mattress is supposed to be already, but I was paying attention to what you said about every layer playing a role in the system as a whole.

I just saw where you’d added:
“I would also be open to the possibility that joints that are outside of their neutral range of motion from a mattress that is too soft can also be the cause of joint pain especially if there are connective tissue issues.”

I know you’ve mentioned that before, but I’ve had this exact pain in the past from sleeping on surfaces that were too firm. Even lying on a firm bed away from home for just a few minutes has triggered identical pain. I certainly accept the theory of it, but knowing my body as well as I do, I find it difficult to believe that the mattress being too soft is the problem. (But I’ve been wrong before, more than once - hell, more than once a day sometimes!)

Did I mention I don’t deal well with failure? :sick:

[phoenix]

Hi Clawdia,

What isn’t working about the featherbed . . . for one thing, it’s several years old, the baffles aren’t holding the contents in place so the fill gravitates towards the edges and requires the bed be unmade, featherbed fluffed and allowed to loft, and then the bed re-made - every other day if not every day. So, I’d need to buy a new, better featherbed if that’s the solution I choose to try long term. I don’t feel as though my back alignment is as good sleeping on the featherbed as it should be, although any discomfort from that isn’t as disabling as the hip pain has been.

While your current featherbed may be old … this points to the possibility that a new featherbed or wool topper could be the solution that works best for you. A featherbed or wool topper would likely have less effect on alignment than a foam topper because it will compress more evenly under different parts of the body and it may also have a more “relaxed” sleeping surface than latex.

The other negative is that the featherbed keeps me from feeling like I’m sleeping on a latex bed, and I like the feel of latex. I may well have to give up that “like” in order to gain the needed comfort factor. Believe me, going back to permanently sleeping on a featherbed isn’t something I’ve ruled out at this point.

This may be one of the tradeoffs that you need to make. You certainly wouldn’t be the first one that doesn’t do as well sleeping directly on a more resilient latex surface.

After having hot flashes for 20+ years, especially at night, I’ve been cold so seldom that I no longer have a clue as to how being cold while sleeping makes my body feel. We’ve lived in this house since 2008, and the first time I’ve had the heating vent open in my bedroom is in the past month - always before, I slept so hot that a room in the 60 degree range or even a tad lower felt just fine to me. So I agree that each person should be the best judge as to how temperature changes the feel of their body, but in my particular case that’s not necessarily true - else I’d not have had to ask if it were a possibility that it’s playing a role here.

Again … your experience is outside the norm but it seems to me that better temperature regulation could also be pointing to the possible benefits of a wool topper.

One additional problem may be my body shape - unlike a lot of women, I don’t carry my weight in my hips, but more in the belly area, so even though I weigh in the 140 range I have pretty bony hips with very little padding. I also have broader shoulders than the female average. These are genetic factors, as my mother was the same.

Yes … unusual body types can also add more complexity to a mattress choice. Sometimes zoning solutions can help with unusual body types as well.

The only thing I know will work is a featherbed - which to me would mean I just wasted $1800 on the Dunlop mattress - but at least I know there’s one way to be more comfortable even if it’s something I don’t want to do. I’d have to buy a new one of those if I have to go that route, too, because the one I have isn’t in great shape. A really good one of those runs about $500, too.

I don’t think you have wasted your money at all. You have a very high quality latex mattress that appears to only need fine tuning and it’s quite possible that any mattress you purchased may need this as well. At least you have the benefit of having a reference point that you know works so you know there is a solution to your “symptoms”

Phoenix

[Clawdia]

I know you’re right - there is a benefit to at least knowing one solution that allows me to get a good night’s sleep, that solution being to slap a featherbed on top of the latex mattress. It’s just not the solution I wanted, but far better than no solution at all.

Since I’m totally unfamiliar with wool (except for the itchy clothes my mother used to force on me as a child), I’m more inclined to stay with feathers as opposed to wool, simply because at least I know the featherbed works well and buying wool might end up throwing money away if I didn’t like it or couldn’t adapt to it.

One thing I’ve realized too is that way back when I loved my father’s Dunlop mattress, I didn’t have the chronic pain issues that I deal with now, and I suspect that comes into play with the range of problems I’ve had with the Dunlop mattress.

I even took my whole bed apart today to get at the Latex Green stickers on the latex slabs just to see what they said - the support layer says 70-75 density, and the comfort layer says the density is 65. I guess that means it really is as soft as it gets, for Dunlop, except for some 55 density I’ve only heard as a possible future product.

Now there’s the question of whether to try a soft Talalay topper, or just be satisfied with feathering my nest, as it were. Something for me to think about for a while. I still plan to talk to Shawn at SleepEZ and see what his opinion is of my set of problems, since given my 'druthers I’d still like to feel like I’m sleeping on a latex mattress, but only if it can feel as good or better than sleeping on the featherbed.

I guess, too, that I can be glad I didn’t test PLB’s Beautiful model first - I might have bought it and had the same set of problems, and since it costs about twice what I paid for my mattress, I suspect I’d be feeling at least twice as bad about it all! :ohmy:

My daughter’s doc also has a latex mattress, and he told her today that latex gets hard when it’s in a cool room. I thought that was a quality exhibited by memory foam, but not latex. Which one of us is closer to right?

[phoenix]

Hi Clawdia,

Since I’m totally unfamiliar with wool (except for the itchy clothes my mother used to force on me as a child), I’m more inclined to stay with feathers as opposed to wool, simply because at least I know the featherbed works well and buying wool might end up throwing money away if I didn’t like it or couldn’t adapt to it.

It may be worth trying to find a wool topper that had good return privileges so the risk is low if you don’t like it.

My daughter’s doc also has a latex mattress, and he told her today that latex gets hard when it’s in a cool room. I thought that was a quality exhibited by memory foam, but not latex. Which one of us is closer to right?

You are.

Phoenix

[Clawdia]

So far, I’ve not been able to find a wool topper that was returnable - maybe I’m looking in the wrong place. I’d be willing to try wool if I could do so relatively risk free (paying for return shipping is in my range of “relatively risk free”). I’ll keep looking.

Thanks - it’s nice to be right once in a while. :lol: Glad it was my turn and not the doctor’s, this time.

[phoenix]

Hi Clawdia,

I believe that St Peter Woolen Mill has a return policy if you’re not satisfied and Snugfleece does as well (I would confirm the details of both).

Phoenix

[Clawdia]

Thanks, Phoenix - I’ll check those out.

Last night was the 3rd night sleeping with the featherbed between me and the latex, and the hip pain is still gone - that’s a really good thing!

[phoenix]

Hi Clawdia,

Last night was the 3rd night sleeping with the featherbed between me and the latex, and the hip pain is still gone - that’s a really good thing!

That’s great news … so far so good

Phoenix

[Clawdia]

Thanks, Phoenix - it sure does feel better than a week ago, or even three days ago.

I meant to mention that I peeled the mattress cover itself back yesterday and checked the tags on the latex slabs - the 6" bottom layer was labeled 70-75 density, and the top 3" layer was labeled 65 density.

If those numbers are right, that would make it the softest Dunlop made, or at least the softest I’ve seen. Hard to believe it’s too firm for me, but it’s also hard to argue with how much hip pain I was having, and how quickly it has vanished with the addition of the featherbed.

I did look at the wool you referenced (the snugfleece gets some pretty mixed reviews on Amazon - and yeah, I know how much stock to put in reviews - so, just sayin’). Since the featherbed is something I know works, and wool is pretty much an unknown entity to me except for times in my life I hated it, I think I’m more inclined to stick with feathers as opposed to wool. I don’t seem to have a dust mite allergy, so that part of feathers/down doesn’t bother me.

I am looking at two styles of featherbeds - there’s the baffled style, like the one I have (from The Company Store - their most expensive one a few years ago, 50/50 blend of down and feathers), and one at Downlite called a “European style bag featherbed” that’s pretty much just one giant down/feather pillow, the size of a bed. I’m looking at that one because if the baffles aren’t going to last, maybe it’d be easier to fluff that one on a regular basis than to try to fluff one where the baffles sort of work, making it easy for the fill to shift away from where you need it, but hard to coax the fill back where it is needed.

Here’s a link to the one at Downlite that’s different from all the baffled ones, just in case anyone is curious about it -
http://www.downlitebedding.com/product/SDL100FB0020/
Interestingly, it even references the “princess and the pea syndrome”, and comes in a model that’s 50/50 down/feathers and one that is a 25/75 blend.

If I do decide to get a baffled featherbed, it’ll be from DeWoolfson Down - these are made just a couple of hundred miles from where we live and look like great quality.

All that being said, I’m still going to call and talk to Shawn at SleepEZ about toppers because I’m not quite yet willing to give up on the feel of sleeping on latex.

[phoenix]

Hi Clawdia,

If those numbers are right, that would make it the softest Dunlop made, or at least the softest I’ve seen. Hard to believe it’s too firm for me, but it’s also hard to argue with how much hip pain I was having, and how quickly it has vanished with the addition of the featherbed.

Your latex is the softest molded Dunlop that you would nomally find (the only ones softer would be continuous pour Dunlop) but I would also keep in mind that the featherbed would also be reducing the amount you sink in to the latex while it’s adds its own surface softness so this may be part of the explanation as well.

While wool could be an improvement over the featherbed … I agree that it’s pretty hard to argue with success and if I was in your shoes I would also be very tempted to just replace what was already working as closely as possible.

I’m looking at that one because if the baffles aren’t going to last, maybe it’d be easier to fluff that one on a regular basis than to try to fluff one where the baffles sort of work, making it easy for the fill to shift away from where you need it, but hard to coax the fill back where it is needed.

The idea of baffles is to prevent the down from shifting and migrating and it would stay more even rather than less. I don’t know why the baffles wouldn’t last unless they were poorly made or sewed.

Having said that the Downlite seems like it’s one giant marshmallow and would be very soft but I would think that the down/feathers would shift and migrate over time and the fill would become more uneven without baffles.

I personally would tend to stay with something that is as close as possible to what you have that is working.

Phoenix

[Clawdia]

I think you’re right, on the theory that it’s hard to argue with a successful known entity.

Baffles . . . I know the intent, just that my current featherbed hasn’t lived up to its advertising. I’ve bought some really good sheets from The Company Store, but their featherbeds just aren’t worth the money. Bought one for my daughter when I bought mine that was such a piece of #(%& that they agreed on a return even after use and they even agreed to pay the shipping. Mine was more high priced, and acted as it should for one year, and has gone downhill in a hurry since then - it’s only 3 years old, and should be in much better shape than it is.

This is what I think is the pick of the litter, as far as featherbeds -

DeWoolfson Linens : Home

[phoenix]

Hi Clawdia,

Mine was more high priced, and acted as it should for one year, and has gone downhill in a hurry since then - it’s only 3 years old, and should be in much better shape than it is.

That’s unfortunate and I certainly agree that a good quality featherbed (and the baffles inside it) should last longer than 3 years if it’s well taken care of (and I have no doubt you did).

Phoenix