First time latex mattress on budget and need some advice on foundation.

I wonder if your point about sinking thru the top layer on the Matrand is what going on.
I weigh 200 lbs and my wife about 160. The mattress feels soft enough but it kind of bottoms or firms up when compressed too soon IMHO. Maybe I just need more thickness for my weight.

It seems as if the first inch or two doesn’t give much support then it ramps up too fast. I suspect this is due to the latex layer just being too thin. It would be nice if the support was a little more linear, it wouldn’t feel like the first inch or so was wasted.

I have the Matrand on a box spring at home FWIW.

Hi SuperJ,

[quote]I wonder if your point about sinking thru the top layer on the Matrand is what going on.
I weigh 200 lbs and my wife about 160. The mattress feels soft enough but it kind of bottoms or firms up when compressed too soon IMHO. Maybe I just need more thickness for my weight.[/quote]

It’s certainly possible.

Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that feels firm for one person can feel like “medium” for someone else or even “soft” for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they “rate” a mattress as well (see post #15 here) so different people can have very different opinions on how two mattresses compare in terms of firmness and some people may rate one mattress as being firmer than another and someone else may rate them the other way around. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science.

The “bottom line” is the only way to know how firm/soft a mattress feels for any specific person (regardless of how firm it may feel for someone else) or “how” it feels soft or firm will be based on their own personal experience.

“Support” is also often misunderstood and many people believe incorrectly that “firmer is better” or “more supportive” or that one type of support system is “better” than another when the real goal of a “supportive” mattress is to keep the spine in good alignment and this requires the type of contouring support that allows some parts of the body to sink in more and some parts of the body to sink in less and this will vary on an individual basis. There is more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support/alignment” and “comfort/pressure relief” and “feel” and how they interact together.

A mattress on an actual box spring (that has springs inside it that flex) will tend to have a softer and more “bottomless” feel and can provide more “contouring” secondary support (especially if the mattress is relatively thin) than the same mattress that is on a solid non flexing foundation.

Phoenix

Thanks Phoenix, you are a fountain of knowledge. I’ve been spending hours on this site reading your articles and postings. I wish I found it sooner.

Based on what I’ve read I’m going to try and go back to the store with your three P’s in mind and get the mattress that works the best without a topper, then add one if necessary. I kinda hope the morgangava feels the best since it’s double sided and has higher quality materials, but I will only get it if everything else checks out about it.

Worst case is that I’m not really happy with any of them or the feel the same to me. Then I might stick with what I’ve got already and focus on a decent topper. I’ll save the difference for next time around with a proper education.

The mattress of roll packed and I think some of the over firmness was due to not giving it a chance to expand. It feels quite a bit better now then it did the first 3 nights.

Hi SuperJ,

Outside of any changes over the first few days when a mattress is decompressing … there will also be a break in and adjustment period for any new mattress or sleeping system as the mattress loses any of it’s “false firmness” and the cover stretches and loosens a little and the materials settle and your body gets used to a sleeping surface that is different from what it is used to (see post #3 here). This would typically be a few weeks but it can be shorter or longer depending on the specifics of the person and the mattress.

It can be quite surprising to some people how much their sleeping experience can change over the first few weeks of sleeping on a new mattress (or mattress/topper combination).

As you know Ikea has a 90 day exchange policy so I would give a new mattress a few weeks before exchanging it for something else (or longer if your sleeping experience is still improving) but I would certainly make sure you exchange it before the 90 days are over if your “symptoms” are clearly getting worse or if you are getting closer to the deadline and you still aren’t sleeping well.

Phoenix

I checked out the mattresses and toppers tonight.
The mini coil one was just too thick and led to some poor alignment but it sure was nice to hop onto.
The natural latex one seemed great but not as good as a better suited mattress.
Was disappointed overall with the idea of the topper, it didn’t blend as well with the mattress support as I had hoped.

The thicker Myrbacka was about the same firmness (as the latex Matrand) but definitely more depth. You can’t really “bottom” it with your hip or shoulder like you can with the Matrand. An extra inch or two of latex counts for a lot IMHO.

I was pleasantly surprised at both the Morgongava and Heggedal. They both felt great with the nod going to the Morgangava. I was surprised since they are both called firm but seemed plusher than the plush Matrand.
They had them on a fairly springy box spring though. My box spring at home has almost no compliance compared to the one in the store.

My personal perference is the Morgongava due to its double side natural (80%) latex construction. But the sprung Heggedal (with a latex comfort layer) felt pretty good too. I don’t think it would have the same life expectancy though being a pocket coil.

The Ikea sprung mattresses all seem to have a relatively low spring count, is that a bad thing? Going by feel the Heggedal (528 springs queen) didn’t seem to be giving anything up to some of the much more expensive big S mattresses I’ve tried with way more springs.

Hi SuperJ,

I would avoid coil counting as a way to determine the quality, durability, or value of a mattress because an innerspring isn’t normally the weak link in a mattress and the number of coils is only one of many factors that determines how a particular innerspring will feel and perform inside a specific mattress design and can be more misleading than helpful. There is more about the different types of innersprings in this article and in post #10 here.

While “in theory” a latex support core may be more durable than an innerspring … the support layers of a mattress are not usually the weak link of a mattress (a mattress tends to soften and break down from the top down) so in practical terms a latex core and an innerspring support core would both be durable choices and the materials above the support core would be a more important factor in the durability and useful life of a mattress.

There is more about the many variables that can affect the durability and useful life of a mattress in post #4 here.

I would pay much more attention to your own careful and objective testing which will tell you how the innerspring performs in combination with the other materials and components in a mattress and to the quality of the materials above the innerspring (which is normally the weakest link in a mattress) than I would to the number of coils in a mattress which by itself isn’t particularly meaningful.

Phoenix

I also went different location IKEA early this morning.

Morgangava - Felt firmer at new store on the same box spring setup compared to first IKEA location, I know now the first IKEA had a older box spring and older (slight saggy) mattress in their Morgangava setup.

MATRAND and MYRBACKA felt almost identical although the MYRBACKA was on a semi-flex slats setup where as the MATRAND was on a non-flex slats setup.

IMO, if you really like the Morgangava and think it a bit thin get it along with the TROMSDALEN topper since they both should be the exact same latex (I unzipped the TROMSDALEN) which in turn should give you 8" or 6" plus 2" instead of just 6" of Latex on the Morgangava.

Just a suggestional idea, I’m no mattress expert.

Hi Nemix,

Just to confirm your comments … they are the same type and blend of latex.

If you test the mattress/topper combination together to confirm that they are a good “match” in terms of PPP then they would certainly be worth considering. There are also many other options for latex toppers that use different types and blends of latex in different thicknesses and firmnesses than the Tromsdalen as well although you wouldn’t be able to test the combination in person,

Phoenix

I might get some heat for this but my absolute favorite mattress/topper combination at IKEA yesterday was the SULTAN HOLMSTA + TROMSDALEN.

I’m fully aware of the lower quality materials in the top layers on the SULTAN HOLMSTA and this is the reason why I would be purchasing it with the TROMSDALEN topper basically to slow down the process of the top layers of the SULTAN HOLMSTA from sagging too soon.

To me the SULTAN HOLMSTA on it’s own felt already so good in store and this is on a IKEA foundation that has about 5"-6" spacing between the slats found the foundation (can be fixed).

In combination with the TROMSDALEN topper the SULTAN HOLMSTA did not feel any softer or firmer with the topper on significantly cooler in temperature with a slight bit more bounce.

I will be going to Quality Mattress Factory Inc. today to check out their two sided coil mattress and back to Dreamstar Bedding tomorrow to check out their Natural Escape (Hybrid Latex) and some non fancy pocketed coil mattresses with the IKEA TROMSDALEN topper in mind, that’s it; no more mattress shopping, it’s becoming a chore. :slight_smile:

Can you give a synopsis how the differences in feeling between the Holmsta and Heggedal? I didn’t try the Holmsta? I can read about the construction but it seems like words can never describe the feeling.

The Heggedal was really on sale too (end of life)

How tall and heavy are you?

Hi Nemix,

I switched your post back to your original topic.

As long as you are aware that you would be buying a lower quality and less durable mattress then you would be making an informed choice and you certainly wouldn’t be getting any “heat” from me :).

I’m looking forward to your feedback after your visits.

Phoenix

I’m 5’7" and 130 lbs, medium build single male…LOL

The Sultan Holmsta feels soft, I’d say one spectrum below medium firm from other mattress brands. You don’t sink in due to the synthetic Latex layer in top comfort layer (about 1 inch Latex followed by 2 inches of Poly).

The Sultan Heggedal on the other hand still feels good and just that; it’s more bouncy, has a thicker and better layer of Latex in top comfort layer.

The TROMSDALEN topper combined with the Sultan Heggedal softens it down a bit but no enough for my liking, furthermore I feel the Sultan Heggedal is the least value mattress from IKEA considering the materials, price and design.

I also feel if the Sultan Heggedal has Poly foam under the top blended Latex layer it would be much more soft, this would allow the Latex to compress and conform better to the body but because the Latex top sits right on top of the pocketed coils every time compression happens the bottom coils push up more from the bottom onto the Latex layer making feel firmer while also making the feeling of the coils underneath more apparent to the user.

@ Phoenix,

I visited Quality Mattress Factory in the GTA today, while I didn’t find any mattress to my liking (due to firmness) but I do feel the business they are operating is honest with high value in quality and price.

The use mostly a Continuous coil system is their mattresses which is slightly less durable than Pocketed coils (only if both are single sided) however since most of their mattresses are double sided if properly maintained by the user a double sided Continuous coil mattress will certainly outlast a single sided Pocketed coil one.

Thanks for your insights. I wonder if I was more ok with the Heggedal simply because I’m 70lbs heavier (200lbs). Maybe I’m heavy enough to actually compress the inner pocket coils instead of just sitting on top of them on the thinner compressed latex comfort layer.

Hi Nemix,

I certainly wouldn’t agree with your assessment of the “value” of the Heggedal based on the quality of the materials but of course there are also many other parts to the value of a mattress purchase than just the quality and durability of the materials and each person’s criteria and the parts of their personal value equation that are most important to them may be very different from someone else. A forum search on Heggedal will also bring up more comments and feedback about it.

I’m also not so sure I would agree with your “theories” here and it would also depend on the specifics of the polyfoam and how firm it was (polyfoam can range from ultra soft to ultra firm). Polyfoam is also not as “point elastic” (the ability to contour to the shape of the body) as latex. Of course each person can have a very different experience on the same mattress so how a mattress “feels” will depend on the person and their body type, sleeping style, and their sensitivity to the different layers and components in a mattress.

A mattress will tend to soften and break down from the top layers down and the innerspring in a mattress isn’t generally the weakest link in terms of durability and the useful life of the mattress although the type of innerspring can certainly make a difference in how it feels and performs. To the degree than an innerspring makes a difference in terms of durability … the most important factor in the durability of an innerspring would be the total amount of steel that it contains (assuming that it is tempered) which unfortunately isn’t a specification that you would normally be able to find out. There is more information about the different types of innersprings in this article and in post #10 here.

Phoenix

Thanks for the insight Phoenix, your knowledge and opinion is always welcome and appreciated.

I didn’t end up going to Dreamstar Bedding this weekend simply because a few things came up for me thus I was busy.

I do plan on going to their showroom sometime this week without Andy since I like it better to take my time laying on mattresses to pick out the best one that suits my body.

I’m currently fixated on the IKEA Holmsta + Tromsdalen but if I find a pocketed coil mattress from Dreamstar Bedding with the same amount of firmness/comfort, in the same price range and with better quality materials I very likely go with Dreamstar Bedding model in combination with a Tromsdalen topper from IKEA.

I will be going into the showroom with the IKEA Tromsdalen in mind when choosing from their less priced pocketed coil mattresses with the exception of their Natural Escape model in which already has 4" of Talalay Latex on top if I decide to go the all Foam/Latex route.

These are the models I’m looking at:

http://tonfurniture.com/special-edition-pocket-coil/

  • Has better coil count and gauge then the Holmsta, unsure on Foam thickness, foam density and does not have foam encasement.

http://tonfurniture.com/monaco/

  • Seems to be the same as the Special Edition above both on Ton Furniture and Dreamstar Bedding’s website, only Euro top (cosmetic difference) with a slightly lower price.

http://tonfurniture.com/natural-escape-plush/

  • Did not get to try this model in the showroom last week, I still seem to like pocketed coil mattresses plus Latex topper combination better; will not need a topper with this one.

Hi Nemix,

While the coil count and gauge will have little practical use in terms of choosing which mattress is the best “match” for you in terms of PPP or in terms of the durability of the mattress … I would definitely make sure that you know the specifics of all the foam layers and components in the mattress before making your purchase because this will have a much more significant effect on the durability and useful life of the mattress than the innerspring.

I’m looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding.

Phoenix

Just an update. I swapped the Matrand for the inner spring Heggedal.
In the store I felt less pressure on my hips and shoulders on the Heggedal. I felt comfortable with the materials used in the mattress as well. It was on a fairly soft boxspring foundation in the store. Ours at home has almost no compliance in comparison. My thoughts were that the Heggedal is thick and firm enough the the springs in the foundation probably don’t contribute much to the feel.

Now that it’s home it feels even firmer than the Matrand. :ohmy:
I hope it breaks in quickly. I’m concerned that my brief experience with even a cheap latex mattress has made me notice the short comings of springs even more though.

Another point that i overlooked. The Latex Matrand had very good support all the way out to the edge of the mattress. My bed actually flet substantially wider with the latex Matrand than it did with our previous Serta or with the new Heggedal. The spring mattresses seem to kinda want to dump you off the edge if you get to close. This is relevant to my wife and I since we have 3 young daughters (2,4, and 6) who are constantly trying to sunggle into our bed at 5am. Every bit of width gets utilized. We try and sleep for another hour or two but the bed is so crowded that I usually just get up and start my day.

I suspect my ultimate mattress would be a latex mattress with a softer upper comfort layer than what Ikea offers. and probably slightly thicker (in the 7-9" range). The Ikea latex mattresses all only have a single layer up to about 7inches thick, it seems like other manufactures often incorporate up to 3 layers of varying thickness and densities of latex to create a more refined support system.

We might just add a soft latex topper (not from Ikea) if the Heggedal doesn’t break in enough, but I don’t really like the way the mattress slopes towards the edge if you get too close, and fear a topper would exaggerate that feeling.

BTW, the Heggedal was only $650cdn, it’s on clearance in store at Ikea. Regular price is $900.

Hi SuperJ,

Thanks for taking the time to share an update.

[quote]Now that it’s home it feels even firmer than the Matrand. :ohmy:
I hope it breaks in quickly. I’m concerned that my brief experience with even a cheap latex mattress has made me notice the short comings of springs even more though.[/quote]

This could be the result of testing the mattress on a box spring that is softer than the support system you are using at home.

It’s unfortunate that you didn’t test for this in the store because “roll off” can certainly be an issue with some innerspring mattresses (pocket coils in particular) that don’t have firmer edge support for those that tend to sleep closer to the edge of their mattress (see post #2 here). Unfortunately it’s unlikely that a topper will correct this.

Hopefully the lack of edge support is something that you can get used to and I’m looking forward to any additional updates you have the chance to share once you’ve had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.

Phoenix

I think I’ve finally found my mattress after a 2nd visit to Dreamstar Bedding through Andy from Ton Furniture.

I’m about 95% sure I’m gonna go with the Natural Escape but still unsure on firm or plush.

I’m also going to get a custom made foundation from Dreamstar Bedding which consists of Birch wood (might be Pine however i was told it was Birch), 1’ by 3’ slats about 2" apart (originally 4.5" apart but I asked for smaller gaps) and possibly in low profile.

Just some questions on foundation directed at Phoenix:

a) For foam core mattresses what is the idea space between the slats (I’ve read it’s 2-3 inches but I cannot find a definite answer)?

b) Is there such thing as too little space between the slats, if so what is it and why?

Hi Nemix,

Sounds promising :slight_smile:

The reason for the slats is to provide some airflow under the mattress which can help reduce the risk of moisture and humidity getting trapped in the mattress and adding to the risk of developing mold, mildew, or dust mites in the mattress.

There isn’t a definitive answer about which specific foundation is “best” for a specific mattress because it depends on the mattress and the materials inside it but there is more information and some general guidelines about support systems (bedframes and foundations or platform beds) that are generally suitable for different types of mattresses and some examples of each of them in post #1 here

A mattress with a polyfoam support core will generally do best with a firm, flat, and evenly supportive support surface underneath it that has minimal to no flex under the mattress and for larger sizes with at least one center support beam that has good support to the floor to prevent any sagging in the middle of the mattress. The components need to be strong and durable enough to support the weight of the mattress and the people sleeping on it without any of the parts or the support system bending, sagging, or breaking over time. The support surface under the mattress should also have enough surface area to prevent the mattress from sagging through any gaps or spaces in the support surface over time but still allow some airflow under the mattress. I would suggest that the gaps between the slats are no more than about 5" (with 1 x 3 slats) although less than 4" would be better yet.

With a mattress that has a latex support core then I would use a maximum guideline of about 3" (and again less would be better) because latex is more flexible and elastic than polyfoam and can sag into any gaps more easily.

As long as the gaps are wide enough to provide some airflow under the mattress (and it’s difficult to prevent any airflow unless the support surface is solid) then it would generally be fine. Even a solid surface would be fine in many cases depending on whether there are any additional risk factors involved. There is more about airflow and solid surface support systems in post #10 here.

Phoenix