First time latex mattress on budget and need some advice on foundation.

Just an update. I swapped the Matrand for the inner spring Heggedal.
In the store I felt less pressure on my hips and shoulders on the Heggedal. I felt comfortable with the materials used in the mattress as well. It was on a fairly soft boxspring foundation in the store. Ours at home has almost no compliance in comparison. My thoughts were that the Heggedal is thick and firm enough the the springs in the foundation probably don’t contribute much to the feel.

Now that it’s home it feels even firmer than the Matrand. :ohmy:
I hope it breaks in quickly. I’m concerned that my brief experience with even a cheap latex mattress has made me notice the short comings of springs even more though.

Another point that i overlooked. The Latex Matrand had very good support all the way out to the edge of the mattress. My bed actually flet substantially wider with the latex Matrand than it did with our previous Serta or with the new Heggedal. The spring mattresses seem to kinda want to dump you off the edge if you get to close. This is relevant to my wife and I since we have 3 young daughters (2,4, and 6) who are constantly trying to sunggle into our bed at 5am. Every bit of width gets utilized. We try and sleep for another hour or two but the bed is so crowded that I usually just get up and start my day.

I suspect my ultimate mattress would be a latex mattress with a softer upper comfort layer than what Ikea offers. and probably slightly thicker (in the 7-9" range). The Ikea latex mattresses all only have a single layer up to about 7inches thick, it seems like other manufactures often incorporate up to 3 layers of varying thickness and densities of latex to create a more refined support system.

We might just add a soft latex topper (not from Ikea) if the Heggedal doesn’t break in enough, but I don’t really like the way the mattress slopes towards the edge if you get too close, and fear a topper would exaggerate that feeling.

BTW, the Heggedal was only $650cdn, it’s on clearance in store at Ikea. Regular price is $900.

Hi SuperJ,

Thanks for taking the time to share an update.

[quote]Now that it’s home it feels even firmer than the Matrand. :ohmy:
I hope it breaks in quickly. I’m concerned that my brief experience with even a cheap latex mattress has made me notice the short comings of springs even more though.[/quote]

This could be the result of testing the mattress on a box spring that is softer than the support system you are using at home.

It’s unfortunate that you didn’t test for this in the store because “roll off” can certainly be an issue with some innerspring mattresses (pocket coils in particular) that don’t have firmer edge support for those that tend to sleep closer to the edge of their mattress (see post #2 here). Unfortunately it’s unlikely that a topper will correct this.

Hopefully the lack of edge support is something that you can get used to and I’m looking forward to any additional updates you have the chance to share once you’ve had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.

Phoenix

I think I’ve finally found my mattress after a 2nd visit to Dreamstar Bedding through Andy from Ton Furniture.

I’m about 95% sure I’m gonna go with the Natural Escape but still unsure on firm or plush.

I’m also going to get a custom made foundation from Dreamstar Bedding which consists of Birch wood (might be Pine however i was told it was Birch), 1’ by 3’ slats about 2" apart (originally 4.5" apart but I asked for smaller gaps) and possibly in low profile.

Just some questions on foundation directed at Phoenix:

a) For foam core mattresses what is the idea space between the slats (I’ve read it’s 2-3 inches but I cannot find a definite answer)?

b) Is there such thing as too little space between the slats, if so what is it and why?

Hi Nemix,

Sounds promising :slight_smile:

The reason for the slats is to provide some airflow under the mattress which can help reduce the risk of moisture and humidity getting trapped in the mattress and adding to the risk of developing mold, mildew, or dust mites in the mattress.

There isn’t a definitive answer about which specific foundation is “best” for a specific mattress because it depends on the mattress and the materials inside it but there is more information and some general guidelines about support systems (bedframes and foundations or platform beds) that are generally suitable for different types of mattresses and some examples of each of them in post #1 here

A mattress with a polyfoam support core will generally do best with a firm, flat, and evenly supportive support surface underneath it that has minimal to no flex under the mattress and for larger sizes with at least one center support beam that has good support to the floor to prevent any sagging in the middle of the mattress. The components need to be strong and durable enough to support the weight of the mattress and the people sleeping on it without any of the parts or the support system bending, sagging, or breaking over time. The support surface under the mattress should also have enough surface area to prevent the mattress from sagging through any gaps or spaces in the support surface over time but still allow some airflow under the mattress. I would suggest that the gaps between the slats are no more than about 5" (with 1 x 3 slats) although less than 4" would be better yet.

With a mattress that has a latex support core then I would use a maximum guideline of about 3" (and again less would be better) because latex is more flexible and elastic than polyfoam and can sag into any gaps more easily.

As long as the gaps are wide enough to provide some airflow under the mattress (and it’s difficult to prevent any airflow unless the support surface is solid) then it would generally be fine. Even a solid surface would be fine in many cases depending on whether there are any additional risk factors involved. There is more about airflow and solid surface support systems in post #10 here.

Phoenix

New question:

How does Polyfoam compared to Synthetic Latex (specifically from IKEA 2.2 lbs Poly vs IKEA all Synthetic Latex) in terms of durability?

Are there any other advantages one has over the other in terms of comfort, fell and performance (heat trap)?

Hi Nemix,

While both of these are good quality materials … all else being equal I would give the advantage to the synthetic latex (latex in general is the most durable of all the foam materials).

Comfort and feel are subjective so it would depend on which one your testing indicates you prefer. All the layers and components of a mattress (including the cover) will also affect all the other layers and components in the mattress and the mattress as a whole so which one is a better match for you in terms of PPP will also depend on all the specifics of the mattress.

While it’s not possible to quantify the sleeping temperature of a mattress for any particular person with any real accuracy because there are so many variables involved including the type of mattress protector and the sheets and bedding that you use (which in many cases can have just as significant an effect on temperature as the type of foam in a mattress), the temperature and humidity of your room, the firmness of the mattress, and on where you are in the “oven to iceberg” range … latex in general is more breathable than other types of foam materials but most people wouldn’t have temperature regulation issues on either one.

There is more about the many variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress or sleeping system in post #2 here.

Phoenix

[quote=“Phoenix” post=58661]Hi SuperJ,

Thanks for taking the time to share an update.

[quote]Now that it’s home it feels even firmer than the Matrand. :ohmy:
I hope it breaks in quickly. I’m concerned that my brief experience with even a cheap latex mattress has made me notice the short comings of springs even more though.[/quote]

This could be the result of testing the mattress on a box spring that is softer than the support system you are using at home.

It’s unfortunate that you didn’t test for this in the store because “roll off” can certainly be an issue with some innerspring mattresses (pocket coils in particular) that don’t have firmer edge support for those that tend to sleep closer to the edge of their mattress (see post #2 here). Unfortunately it’s unlikely that a topper will correct this.

Hopefully the lack of edge support is something that you can get used to and I’m looking forward to any additional updates you have the chance to share once you’ve had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.

Phoenix[/quote]

Just a one week update. I’m relieved that the mattress and I have gotten a lot more used to each other. It is still on the firm end of the spectrum but is very supportive and comfortable and does a good job avoiding pressure points even for side sleeping. This is somewhat surprising because a quick press with the palm of your hand would lead you to believe it is way too firm.

The roll of issue definitely still there and will likely get worse over the years I suppose. I wouldn’t have noticed it had I not purchased a relatively firm thin latex mattress first. One thought I had was to try the Atloy box spring since it has a rigid outer surround, but (soft for a foundation) bonell springs. It may slightly counteract the rolloff by providing more compliance as you move in from the edge but good support on the edge. It was on this box spring in the store. Or I may just deal with it since I like everything else about it and the price was right.

Hi SuperJ,

It’s certainly possible that it would help to some degree with the feeling of “roll off” but a support system that flexes can also change the feel and performance of the mattress as well. This could end up being beneficial, detrimental, or “neutral”. It can also increase the amount of motion transfer in between the sides of the mattress. The only way to know how a different support system will affect you will be based on your own personal experience but careful testing in the store on the same combination can certainly give you a good idea of how it would compare to the support system that you are currently using.

Phoenix

Today I tried the Heggedal in the store with the Bonell Spring foundation (Atloy). It felt twice as soft as mine at home, and the roll off was a little worse. On the plus side the Morgongava had no roll off issues, and felt similar in softness/pressure point elimination, but it was much more seemless refined feeling.

Phoenix,

So I’ve narrowed it down to two mattresses in pocket coil that I’m certainly going to get, I’ve ruled out the Natural Escape from Dreamstar because I still prefer the feeling pocket coils to an all foam core and since I’m buying the mattress only for myself as a filler to get ready for and finish my studies; I don’t mind saving a bit more money to spend on other things of slightly higher quality that I need: a mattress protector/pad, a bed frame, pillows, a duvet, etc…

Dreamstar Monaco Limited $430:
3 Zoned Tempered Pocket Coils (682 Count)
Triple Edge Guard
1" Insulator Pad
3/4" Comfort Layer (very likely less than 1.5 lbs)
2" High Density Soy Foam (1.8 lbs)
1/2" Foam + Hollow Fill + Blended Cotton Fabric

IKEA Sultan Holmsta $565:
5 Zone Tempered Pocket Coil (380 Count)
360 Foam Encasement (1.5 lbs)
Insulator Layer
1" High Density Foam (1.5 lbs)
1/2" Comfort Layer (unknown density, likely less than 1.5 lbs)
1" Blended Latex (20% Natural)
1/2" Foam + Polyester Fill + Blended Tencel Fabric

I will be getting a 2" Dunlop topper from Memory Foam Canada or 2" Talalay topper from Dreamstar (depending on price) regardless of which mattress I end up, my first choice being the Monaco Limited from Dreamstar.

The Sultan Holmsta highlights being it has 1" Blended Latex in the top comfort layer, blended Tencel fabric, 360 high density foam encasement (up to 10% more usable sleeping space) and IMO IKEA has more consistent workmanship (especially the coils, I currently laying on a 10+ year old IKEA double sided coil mattress for reference).

The Monaco Limited highlights being it has a thicker 2" layer of higher density foam in the top comfort layer, has 75% more pocket coils, Hollow Fill in the quilt layer, is $135 cheaper (tax included on both) and Andy has been outstanding in customer service.

Other thoughts:
-Both mattresses are very close to within margin of your guideline for having 1" of less of lower density foam is the comfort layers.
-360 high density foam encasement gives more sleeping area but is a pricey premium and not needed since triple edge guard system works just a well with 2" of high density foam followed by 2" of Latex topper layers over the metal edge guards.
-Higher coil counts doesn’t equate to higher quality/comfort, IKEA’s coil quality has been outstanding from my experience however a 75% more coil count cannot be overlooked.

Hi SuperJ,

Thanks for the update … and it’s good to see that you had the chance to test the combination in person.

That’s not surprising given the point elasticity of latex (the ability to contour to the shape of the body) and that it only has a single layer.

Phoenix

Hi Nemix,

[quote]Dreamstar Monaco Limited $430:
3 Zoned Tempered Pocket Coils (682 Count)
Triple Edge Guard
1" Insulator Pad
3/4" Comfort Layer (very likely less than 1.5 lbs)
2" High Density Soy Foam (1.8 lbs)
1/2" Foam + Hollow Fill + Blended Cotton Fabric

IKEA Sultan Holmsta $565:
5 Zone Tempered Pocket Coil (380 Count)
360 Foam Encasement (1.5 lbs)
Insulator Layer
1" High Density Foam (1.5 lbs)
1/2" Comfort Layer (unknown density, likely less than 1.5 lbs)
1" Blended Latex (20% Natural)
1/2" Foam + Polyester Fill + Blended Tencel Fabric

-Both mattresses are very close to within your guidelines of having 1" of less of lower density foam is the comfort layers.[/quote]

Guidelines such as these have “fuzzy edges” because something doesn’t suddenly go from good to bad as soon as it goes over a certain threshold so the guideline I use is no more than “about an inch or so” of lower density polyfoam in quilting layers. The quilting process (or tufting even more so) pre-compresses the foam which makes it more durable so if a quilting layer has about 1.5" of polyfoam then I would still consider it to be OK. The density will also play a role because much of the quilting foam is in the range of 1.2 lb density or even lower which is less durable than 1.5 lb foam. Firmness will also play a role because firmer materials tend to be more durable than softer materials that compress more easily.

The Dreamstar Monaco has 1 1/4" of lower quality/density materials in the comfort layers so I would certainly consider this to be OK.

The Sultan Holmsta has about 2" of lower quality/density materials in the comfort layers so this would be a more risky choice.

I also tend to prefer steel edge support vs a foam encasement … especially if the encasement is only 1.5 lbs (see post #2 here).

The coil count is only one of many variables that can affect the feel and performance of the mattress (including the gauge of the coils and the number of turns in the coils) and that also affect on the amount of steel in the innerspring unit and coil counts by themselves aren’t particularly meaningful. Again though … the innerspring wouldn’t likely be the weakest link in the mattress and as long as a mattress is a good “match” for you in terms of PPP then the quality/density of the foam layers above the innerspring would be a much more important factor in the durability and useful life of the mattress than the number of coils. Assuming that there weren’t any obvious weak links in the mattress … I would choose a mattress that had a lower coil count but was a better “match” in terms of “comfort” and PPP over a mattress that had a higher coil count but wasn’t as suitable in terms of its overall feel and performance.

Phoenix

I suspect a Dunlop Latex mattress that’s 2 inches thicker than the Morgongava and has a softer upper 2-3" would my dream setup (for me), based on my newfound mattress education. I can probably get pretty close to the same feeling by adding a softer topper to it eventually (assuming I exchange the Heggedal for the Morgongava). this will suite my budget a little better as I can defer the last $300 for a couple months.

Hi SuperJ,

As I mentioned earlier there is always some additional risk and uncertainty when you can’t test a mattress/topper combination in person but if a mattress/topper combination turns out to be a good “match” for you in terms of PPP then it also has the advantage that it allows you to replace just the topper without replacing the entire mattress if it softens or breaks down before the upper foam layers in the mattress (the upper layers or a sleeping system tend to soften or break down before the deeper layers) or if your needs or preferences change over time and a topper can also help extend the useful life of the mattress underneath it.

If you do decide to go in this direction then your plan to spend some time on the mattress by itself first would be helpful because then you can choose the thickness and firmness of the topper that would have the best chance of success after you have gone through the initial break in and adjustment period on the mattress by itself.

Phoenix

Thank you very much Phoenix, I’ve now ruled out the Sultan Holmsta from IKEA.

I still have possibly one last comparison to make both mattresses being from Dreamstar:

Dreamstar Monaco Limited $430:
3 Zone Tempered Pocket Coils - Count 682
Triple Edge Guard
1" Insulator Pad
3/4" Comfort Layer (very likely less than 1.5 lbs)
2" High Density Soy Foam (1.8 lbs)
1/2" Foam + Hollow Fill + Blended Cotton Fabric

Dreamstar Serenity 2 $550
2 Sided Flip Design
Tempered Pocket Coils - Count 682
Triple Edge Guard
1" Insulator Pad (on both sides)
3/4" comfort Layer (should be on both sides)
1" High Density Soy Foam (on both sides)
3/4" Foam + Hollow Fill + Blended Bamboo Fabric (highly compressed on both sides)

I’ve read your posts on two sided mattress and their durability when regularly maintained and I can backup those statements since I’m currently sleeping on an IKEA two sided mattress for reference.

Since I sit up right on my mattress very often (with my back leaning on a pillowed headboard) when using my laptop, would a two sided mattress with 1" less high density foam (in the Euro Top when compared to the Monaco which has 2" of high density foam, all other thing being equal) benefit me at all in terms of durability?

As stated in the above post I will be getting a 2" Latex topper but since I’m now highly considering the two sided Serenity 2 with 1" less high density foam, would is be better to get a 3" Latex topper to go with the Serenity 2 or would it be the same with a 2" Latex topper (Serenity 2 felt firmer and less contouring than Monaco Limited in the showroom)?

Other thoughts:
-Both mattresses have the same coil count and tempered coils, the Monaco coil are 3 zoned which adds to comfort and contouring of the body.

  • Two sided can be beneficial for durability but being single and getting a mattress in full size, it can turn out to be tricky to maintain the mattress flipping cycles.

Hi Nemix,

The information you listed doesn’t include the density of the foam layers so if you can find them out and list them on the forum I’d be happy to make some comments about the quality/durability of the materials and and let you know if I can see any obvious weak links in the mattress…

Sitting on a mattress on a regular basis can tend to soften the foam under where you are sitting more rapidly because of the higher weight concentration in a smaller area but if all other things are equal and you flip and rotate the mattress on a regular basis (see post #2 here) then I would expect that a two sided mattress with an inch less foam on each side would certainly be more durable than a one sided mattress with an inch more foam on one side.

Unfortunately there is no way for me to know this because the only way to know which mattress/topper combination will be the best “match” for you would be based on your own careful testing or personal experience.

I would sleep on the mattress by itself for a while and then I would use your actual sleeping experience along with the topper guidelines I linked in a previous reply as a reference point to help you choose the type, thickness, and firmness of a topper that has the best chance of success.

Phoenix

Sorry the 1" high density foam on the Serenity 2 is 1.8 lbs just like the 2" high density foam on the Monaco Limited, all other things being pretty much equal in the comfort and quilting layers (unknown foam but they could be using either firmer foam or slightly higher density being a two sided mattress by design).

IMHO, the price of the Serenity 2 should only be up to $100 more than the Monaco (it has 1" less high density foam on both sides) but I kind of understand the higher than overage price (for two sided over one sided) since the Monaco is on a limited time sale (even cheaper than regular sale) probably due to overstock pre-manufactured as oppose to newly manufacturing of the Serenity 2 by order.

Edit:

I will likely have to look into buying a torsion modular foundation or real box spring if i get the Serenity 2, since I’m reading those are the best types of boxes for two sided mattresses even though I’ve been using a solid slats bottom on my current IKEA two sided mattress (no research done back then); hopefully Dreamstar Bedding makes one of the two boxes suitable for two sided mattresses.

Hi Nemix,

If these specs are correct then it would be find and there would be no obvious weak links in the mattress.

With a two sided pocket coil you should be fine with the foundation that they recommend.

Phoenix

What do you think of this metal bed frame: https://www.thebay.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/en/thebay/home/bed-frames/rock-3-in-1-bed-frame-0045-4650g--24

The two center legs are actually closer then can be seen in picture, there’s an assembly video of the metal bed frame YouTube :lol: : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O2M0HHtd08

Knickerbocker metal bed frames use the same recycled rail steel Leggett & Platt uses in their metal bed frames and is made in the USA.

There’s also a 7 leg version but it’s $40 more and for that money I’d rather get a Leggett & Platt Prestige 9 leg but I’m thinking I don’t need such heavy duty support on a double size mattress with only one person sleeping on it.

I only regret not being able to make up my decision on my mattress two weeks ago since the Knickerbocker metal bed frame was on sale for $20 off with Bay Days two weeks ago…I guess it’s a small price to pay for deciding on a better mattress that will last me longer.

Hi Nemix,

There is more information about metal bedframes in post #10 here but the bedframe you linked would certainly be strong enough and would be fine.

Phoenix