I’m currently in the market for a new mattress in the GTA area since my current IKEA coil mattress is past due it’s replacement time.
I’ve done lots of research on all types mattresses and have been in lots store showroom’s laying on them to test out the theory of my research.
I think I’ve decided on the IKEA MORGONGAVA 85% Dunlop latex mattress for my budget as I liked the way the mattress looked and felt in store, however I feel the display model is store was not properly supported by a proper foundation recommended for latex mattresses which made the feel very soft with an almost sinking feeling.
On the topic of proper foundations for latex mattresses, I know for a fact IKEA foundations are inadequate for such setups but I do feel I may get the IKEA foundation over other recommended budget foundations for latex mattresses found on the forum by Phoenix on Amazon.ca simply because of quality control and sizing of the “put it together yourself” foundations sold on Amazon.ca, I’ve read almost all reviews on both the “Easy Fit Box Spring Foundation” and “Classic Brands Instant Foundation” and found very mixed feelings about them both being warped and shorter than actual mattress size plus the covering does not really match the IKEA mattress very well.
Since I’m pretty handy I think I should be able to add more slats to a IKEA foundation while keeping the overall look of the IKEA foundation to match the IKEA MORGONGAVA mattress, it should be as easy as carefully removing the fabric covering and then buying some properly measured Pine slats at Home Depot (not sure where I can find Spruce and how much it would cost) and then adding them to the IKEA foundation and finally double stapling the original fabric covering back turning the IKEA foundation into a adequate foundation for latex mattresses while still maintaining the original look of the IKEA foundation.
Assuming that the Morgongava is a good “match” for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) it can certainly be a good quality/value choice.
There is more information about support systems (bedframes and foundations or platform beds) that are generally suitable for different types of mattresses and some sources for each of them in post #1 here including some links to DIY foundations or platform beds that should be helpful.
An all latex mattress will generally do best with a firm, flat, and evenly supportive support surface underneath it that has minimal to no flex under the mattress and for larger sizes with at least one center support beam that has good support to the floor to prevent any sagging in the middle of the mattress. The components need to be strong and durable enough to support the weight of the mattress and the people sleeping on it without some of the parts bending, sagging, or breaking over time. The support surface under the mattress should have enough surface area to prevent the mattress from sagging through any gaps or spaces in the support surface over time but still allow some airflow under the mattress. I would suggest that in a slatted support system that any gaps between the slats are no more than 3" (with 1 x 3 slats) although less than that would be better yet.
In some cases with a thinner two sided latex mattress (typically in the range of 6" or so) that may be too firm by itself a box spring or a flexible slat system can help create a softer feel and more of a “bottomless feeling” than the same mattress on a more solid non flexing support system and is often used by manufacturers with thinner latex mattresses but again I would make sure that there is enough surface area or padding to prevent the mattress from sinking into any gaps in the box spring or flexible slat support system and to help protect any softer layers that would be on the bottom of a two sided mattress.
A box spring or flexible slat system may also create some additional motion transfer but you can check for this when you test the mattress on the box spring or flexible slat system you are considering.
Would a 1.5" topper specifically the IKEA TROMSDALEN 85% latex make any difference if the mattress is found to be to firm on a properly modified IKEA foundation?
I originally planned on getting the IKEA latex topper to go with the IKEA latex mattress as a form of protecting the mattress, making the mattress thicker and making the mattress softer if found to be too firm however IKEA doe not have the latex topper on display so I cannot test out how the combination works plus I do now know the iLD rating for the topper if it’s any softer than the mattress itself which I believe is in the C3 range as posted on this forum.
I could also get a 2" 100% Dunlop topper at MFC (Memory Foam Canada) however it does not included a cover and also does not have a iLD softness rating (I probably can get the rating by contacting MFC) and lastly I cannot test out how topper feels in combination with the IKEA latex mattress unless I purchase it first in which case it does not work out I’d have to return which is too much work for me personally.
Every layer and component of a sleeping system (such as a mattress/topper combination) will have an effect on every other layer and component above and below it yes. The only way to know for certain whether it would make “enough” of a difference or whether the combination will be a suitable “match” for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) though will be based on your own careful testing or personal experience on the mattress/topper combination.
If your mattress is too firm then a topper can certainly be an effective way to add some additional softness and pressure relief although there is always some risk and uncertainty involved in adding a topper if you haven’t tested the combination in person because the specifics of the mattress itself along with your own body type, sleeping position, and preferences can affect which specific topper would be a suitable choice on any specific mattress.
Although this can be a good strategy if you can test the mattress/topper combination in person before a purchase … you can see my comments about choosing a mattress with the intention of adding a topper in post #2 here. In general I would avoid this approach because of the uncertainty involved with two purchase choices instead of only one and choosing a topper that would be suitable in terms of PPP for a specific person on a specific mattress can sometimes be almost as difficult as choosing a mattress that doesn’t need a topper in the first place. I would generally focus on choosing a mattress that is likely to be a suitable match without a topper (again unless you can test the combination in person) and then use the option to add a topper as a “backup” strategy in case your choice doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for rather than a “primary” strategy.
If a mattress/topper combination is a good “match” for you in terms of PPP then it does have the advantage of being able to replace just the topper without replacing the entire mattress if it softens or breaks down before the upper foam layers in the mattress (the upper layers or a sleeping system tend to soften or break down before the deeper layers) or if your needs or preferences change over time and a topper can also help extend the useful life of the mattress underneath it as well.
If you do purchase a mattress that ends up needing a topper then there is more information about choosing a topper in post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to which along with a conversation with a reliable supplier that can provide you with good information about how their toppers compare to each other or to other toppers they are familiar with that are available on the market can help you use your sleeping experience as a reference point and guideline to help you choose the type, thickness, and firmness for a topper that has the least possible risk and the best chance for success. It also includes a link to a list of some of the better online sources for toppers I’m aware of and a link to the online suppliers that have good exchange/return policies as well.
Some of the better suppliers I’m aware of that ship mattresses and/or toppers across Canada are also listed in post #21 here.
Thanks again Phoenix for the extremely informative reply,
On the topic of the mattress topper, would it be wise to first buy the mattress and allow the mattress to be worked in the grace period (typically 90 days) and then buy a topper afterwards or should I buy a topper alongside the new mattress (given I’ve tried the combination of mattress + topper and it works for my body)?
If you have carefully tested the mattress/topper combination in person and you are confident that it would be a good match for you in terms of PPP and that you would sleep well on it then it would have the same risk of buying a mattress without a topper and would certainly be well worth considering. I would just make sure that it’s not “on the edge” of being too soft for you so that a relatively small amount of foam softening in either the mattress or the topper can take you outside the comfort/support range that would be suitable for you (see post #2 here).
On the other hand if you aren’t confident that your testing would be a good indicator of how well you will sleep on the mattress or if you are concerned about what will happen during the break in and adjustment period then I would buy the mattress first and sleep on it for a few weeks (if possible) so that you can go through some or all of the break in and adjustment process and then based on your experience you can decide on whether you need a topper at all and if you do then in combination with the topper guidelines I linked you can use your actual experience to decide on the type, thickness, and firmness for a topper that would have the least possible risk and the best chance of success.
I went to Dreamstar Mattress Factory in the GTA today, surprising it is located just 15 minutes ways from my home; I got to talk to Andy for a good 1.5 hours and he showed me many mattresses from pocked coils with latex top to foam core with latex top.
The one that interested me the most was the Natural Escape with a 6" 1.8 Lbs Soy Foam Core, 4" 100% Talalay Latex 28 iLD top, 1" Bio Foam quilt with wool and bamboo fabric covering.
Unfortunately he did not have this model is the showroom but the guy was extremely knowledgeable on all aspects of mattresses and I even got to see the factory with workers doing their thing (it was pretty busy).
I will be returning this Saturday to the showroom to take a look at the Natural Escape mattress and considering how expensive it could be for me to import the #BestMattressEver into Canada, I may just pull the trigger on Dreamstar’s Natural Escape which to me closely resembles the #BestMattressEver only with less layers but higher quality materials (4" Talalay + 1" Bio + Bamboo cover vs 2" Dunlop + 2" Talalay + 1" Bio + Cotton cover).
I do still feel the #BestMattressEver is more sophisticated in design and is likely to be more comfortable, durability should be the just about the same for both mattresses, on a side note; if I really want to save money I could always get a IKEA Matrand latex mattress (1.5" Poly + 4.5" Synthetic) with a TROMSDALEN latex topper (2" 85% Natural + 15% Synthetic) which to me felt really good in store.
Thanks for taking the time to share your comments and feedback about your Toronto research … I appreciate it :).
There have been several forum members that have purchased the Dreamstar Natural Escape mattress (in either the soft or firm version) and like the BME it certainly uses high quality materials and there are no lower quality materials that would be a weak link and would compromise the durability or useful life of the mattress. Once you have confirmed that it’s a good match for you in terms of PPP and if it also compares well to your other finalists based on all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you then it would certainly make a good quality/value purchase.
I’m looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding.
I’m curious if you have any more insight about the Ikea toppers and Matrand. I purchased a Matrand latex before I discovered this site and feel it is substantially too firm (mostly for my wife who is a side sleeper). Her hips and shoulders don’t sink in far enough to be comfortable, or achieve good spinal alignment. I find the same thing when on my side (mostly with my shoulders), but I can fall sleep on my back very comfortably on the Matrand.
I am still within the grace period for an exchange (but apparently you only get one so I want to be very careful if I do excise that option). Was trying to keep my total under $600 but would stretch up to $1000 if it was worthwhile.
I suppose I could look at their spring mattresses too but they aren’t that well reviewed.
My options are probably:
Stick with the Matrand and get one of the toppers. I curious about the micro pocket topper and the natural latex. Could afford to spend up to $300cdn on a topper (would be $750cdn with topper)
Upgrade to the Myrbacka (16cm of latex), possible add a topper stretching the budget (probably a sub $200 topper) ($800-$900 depending on the topper)
Blow the budget… Upgrade to the Morgangava but budget wouldn’t allow for a topper.
I probably would’ve went down a different path had I discovered this site earlier, but was drawn to Ikea’s affordable Latex options. I’m locked in to Ikea now since their grace period is exchange only. I sold myself on latex before I tried one based on the longevity, and relatively advantages compared to memory foam.
I feel like my demo in the store didn’t really show the true colors. But I hadn’t read the mattress underground shopping guide at that point. The thinner Matrand seemed as plush as the thicker Myrbacka, but now I wonder if the extra 4cm of latex would give better plushness and conformity in real world use. Question: does thicker automatically mean plusher? Or will the latex be firmer in the thicker mattress to give the same plushness? I would rather just have a comfortable mattress than have to deal with a topper too. Would adding a couple cm of latex to the topper feel different than just getting a thicker mattress?
I would be willing to consider the Morgangava but it didn’t immediatly blow me away compared to the half the price Matrand. But now I wonder if long term its higher end natural materials and extra thickness in the latex would be well worth it. I was going to buy the mid range Myrbacka but complusively cheaped out and thought I’d give the cheaper Matrand a try since they have grace period and I could upgrade later if necessary.
Ikea toppers to go with the Matrand are the:
Tvinde - 4 3/8" (micro pocket coil design) ($200cdn) (curious about other’s thoughts on this. It seems to a bit of rare bird in the world of latex and memory foam dominated toppers).
Tromsdalen - 2 3/4" natural latex (85% natural latex) ($300cdn) I wonder if this is softer than just getting a thicker latex base mattress. I like the idea of sleeping with the more natural latex closer to me.
They also have a 2+ and 3+ inch memory foam toppers, but I want to stay away due to heat. Our last bed was a Serta luxury response pocket coil with a memory foam comfort layer on top. It was pretty good for the first 5 years but was always a bit hot. It’s deteriorated rapidly and now feels like some pocket coils are side ways or missing??? Won’t be buying another big S mattress.
Sorry if I’m thread jacking, I will start another thread if you prefer but I thought I had some overlapping questions and interest.
I switched your post to a new topic of its own so your comments wouldn’t get mixed in with another members topic or start drifting outside the scope of the original topic you posted in.
[quote]I’m curious if you have any more insight about the Ikea toppers and Matrand. I purchased a Matrand latex before I discovered this site and feel it is substantially too firm (mostly for my wife who is a side sleeper). Her hips and shoulders don’t sink in far enough to be comfortable, or achieve good spinal alignment. I find the same thing when on my side (mostly with my shoulders), but I can fall sleep on my back very comfortably on the Matrand.
I am still within the grace period for an exchange (but apparently you only get one so I want to be very careful if I do excise that option). Was trying to keep my total under $600 but would stretch up to $1000 if it was worthwhile.
There is more about the 3 most important parts of “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on suitability, durability, and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price or course and the options you have available after a purchase).
While I can’t speak to how a mattress will feel or how different mattresses will compare in terms of comfort and PPP for someone else … outside of “comfort” and PPP the most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can’t “feel” and assessing the durability and useful life of a mattress always depends on knowing the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label (or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new) so I would always make sure that you can find out the information listed here so you can compare the materials and components to the quality/durability guidelines here to confirm that there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.
The Matrand uses a little under 5" of synthetic latex on top of about 2" of 1.7 lb polyfoam so there are no obvious weak links that would compromise the durability or useful life of the mattress relative to more “average” weight ranges (lower 200’s or less).
The Myrbacka uses a thicker layer of synthetic latex on top of 2.2 lb polyfoam so with the higher density base layer and thicker layer of latex it would have a slight advantage over the Matrand and would be a more suitable choice for higher weight ranges in terms of durability . It also contains some wool in the quilting which can help with temperature regulation (and of course also adds to the cost of the mattress).
The Morgongava is an all latex mattress and is also two sided so it would be the most durable out of the three mattresses. There is more about the pros and cons of a two sided mattress in post #3 here. It also contains wool in the quilting as well.
A microcoil topper is a durable component and can be a good choice if you prefer the more “springy” feel of microcoils. You can read more about microcoils in this article and in post #8 here and post #2 here.
The Tromsdalen topper is also a high quality material and like all latex would also be a durable choice compared to other types of foam materials (such as polyfoam or memory foam).
If a mattress is too firm then a good quality topper can certainly be an effective way to add some additional softness and pressure relief although the only way to know whether a mattress/topper combination is a good “match” for you in terms of PPP is based on your own careful testing or personal experience on the combination. If you can’t test the combination in person then there is always some risk and uncertainty involved in adding a topper because the specifics of the mattress itself along with your own body type, sleeping position, and preferences can affect which specific topper would be a suitable choice on any specific mattress.
If a mattress/topper combination turns out to be a good “match” for you in terms of PPP then it also has the advantage that it allows you to replace just the topper without replacing the entire mattress if it softens or breaks down before the upper foam layers in the mattress (the upper layers or a sleeping system tend to soften or break down before the deeper layers) or if your needs or preferences change over time and a topper can also help extend the useful life of the mattress underneath it.
Ikea’s memory foam is only 3 lb density so outside of any heat issues you may have with memory foam it would also be a much less durable choice than the two other toppers you are considering.
Most of the major brand mattresses also use lower quality materials in their comfort layers (which are the weakest link in most mattresses) which can compromise the durability and useful life of their mattresses and I would avoid them as well (see the guidelines here).
From my own experience and body type the Myrbacka felt firmer than the Matrand in stores over the same foundation setup, this conclusion for me comes after spending a total of 4 hours laying of various specific mattress models in IKEA mostly the Matrand, Myrbacka (not a lot since it did not get any softer for me), MORGONGAVA (most of my time but was on box spring setup) and SULTAN HOGLA (which actually felt really good for me).
But as always Phoenix says the feel and comfort of a mattress is totally dependent on your specific body type, weight and even foundation setup which I’m personally starting to find in totally true.
For someone like me the Matrand probably does not sink as much but for people who weight more the top synthetic Latex layer may not be sufficient and causing them to sink into the firmer Foam core as the Matrand only has approximately 4.7 inches on synthetic latex on top followed by a convoluted 1.7 inch poly foam core.
PS. I will be going back to IKEA for a third time, possibly spending hours laying on the same specific mattresses again but this time I might go to a different location, as I personally find IKEA the most relaxing place (disturbance free from pesky salespeople) to lay on and truly test out mattresses especially during the early hours on business days.
I wonder if your point about sinking thru the top layer on the Matrand is what going on.
I weigh 200 lbs and my wife about 160. The mattress feels soft enough but it kind of bottoms or firms up when compressed too soon IMHO. Maybe I just need more thickness for my weight.
It seems as if the first inch or two doesn’t give much support then it ramps up too fast. I suspect this is due to the latex layer just being too thin. It would be nice if the support was a little more linear, it wouldn’t feel like the first inch or so was wasted.
[quote]I wonder if your point about sinking thru the top layer on the Matrand is what going on.
I weigh 200 lbs and my wife about 160. The mattress feels soft enough but it kind of bottoms or firms up when compressed too soon IMHO. Maybe I just need more thickness for my weight.[/quote]
It’s certainly possible.
Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that feels firm for one person can feel like “medium” for someone else or even “soft” for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they “rate” a mattress as well (see post #15 here) so different people can have very different opinions on how two mattresses compare in terms of firmness and some people may rate one mattress as being firmer than another and someone else may rate them the other way around. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science.
The “bottom line” is the only way to know how firm/soft a mattress feels for any specific person (regardless of how firm it may feel for someone else) or “how” it feels soft or firm will be based on their own personal experience.
“Support” is also often misunderstood and many people believe incorrectly that “firmer is better” or “more supportive” or that one type of support system is “better” than another when the real goal of a “supportive” mattress is to keep the spine in good alignment and this requires the type of contouring support that allows some parts of the body to sink in more and some parts of the body to sink in less and this will vary on an individual basis. There is more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support/alignment” and “comfort/pressure relief” and “feel” and how they interact together.
A mattress on an actual box spring (that has springs inside it that flex) will tend to have a softer and more “bottomless” feel and can provide more “contouring” secondary support (especially if the mattress is relatively thin) than the same mattress that is on a solid non flexing foundation.
Thanks Phoenix, you are a fountain of knowledge. I’ve been spending hours on this site reading your articles and postings. I wish I found it sooner.
Based on what I’ve read I’m going to try and go back to the store with your three P’s in mind and get the mattress that works the best without a topper, then add one if necessary. I kinda hope the morgangava feels the best since it’s double sided and has higher quality materials, but I will only get it if everything else checks out about it.
Worst case is that I’m not really happy with any of them or the feel the same to me. Then I might stick with what I’ve got already and focus on a decent topper. I’ll save the difference for next time around with a proper education.
The mattress of roll packed and I think some of the over firmness was due to not giving it a chance to expand. It feels quite a bit better now then it did the first 3 nights.
Outside of any changes over the first few days when a mattress is decompressing … there will also be a break in and adjustment period for any new mattress or sleeping system as the mattress loses any of it’s “false firmness” and the cover stretches and loosens a little and the materials settle and your body gets used to a sleeping surface that is different from what it is used to (see post #3 here). This would typically be a few weeks but it can be shorter or longer depending on the specifics of the person and the mattress.
It can be quite surprising to some people how much their sleeping experience can change over the first few weeks of sleeping on a new mattress (or mattress/topper combination).
As you know Ikea has a 90 day exchange policy so I would give a new mattress a few weeks before exchanging it for something else (or longer if your sleeping experience is still improving) but I would certainly make sure you exchange it before the 90 days are over if your “symptoms” are clearly getting worse or if you are getting closer to the deadline and you still aren’t sleeping well.
I checked out the mattresses and toppers tonight.
The mini coil one was just too thick and led to some poor alignment but it sure was nice to hop onto.
The natural latex one seemed great but not as good as a better suited mattress.
Was disappointed overall with the idea of the topper, it didn’t blend as well with the mattress support as I had hoped.
The thicker Myrbacka was about the same firmness (as the latex Matrand) but definitely more depth. You can’t really “bottom” it with your hip or shoulder like you can with the Matrand. An extra inch or two of latex counts for a lot IMHO.
I was pleasantly surprised at both the Morgongava and Heggedal. They both felt great with the nod going to the Morgangava. I was surprised since they are both called firm but seemed plusher than the plush Matrand.
They had them on a fairly springy box spring though. My box spring at home has almost no compliance compared to the one in the store.
My personal perference is the Morgongava due to its double side natural (80%) latex construction. But the sprung Heggedal (with a latex comfort layer) felt pretty good too. I don’t think it would have the same life expectancy though being a pocket coil.
The Ikea sprung mattresses all seem to have a relatively low spring count, is that a bad thing? Going by feel the Heggedal (528 springs queen) didn’t seem to be giving anything up to some of the much more expensive big S mattresses I’ve tried with way more springs.
I would avoid coil counting as a way to determine the quality, durability, or value of a mattress because an innerspring isn’t normally the weak link in a mattress and the number of coils is only one of many factors that determines how a particular innerspring will feel and perform inside a specific mattress design and can be more misleading than helpful. There is more about the different types of innersprings in this article and in post #10 here.
While “in theory” a latex support core may be more durable than an innerspring … the support layers of a mattress are not usually the weak link of a mattress (a mattress tends to soften and break down from the top down) so in practical terms a latex core and an innerspring support core would both be durable choices and the materials above the support core would be a more important factor in the durability and useful life of a mattress.
There is more about the many variables that can affect the durability and useful life of a mattress in post #4 here.
I would pay much more attention to your own careful and objective testing which will tell you how the innerspring performs in combination with the other materials and components in a mattress and to the quality of the materials above the innerspring (which is normally the weakest link in a mattress) than I would to the number of coils in a mattress which by itself isn’t particularly meaningful.
I also went different location IKEA early this morning.
Morgangava - Felt firmer at new store on the same box spring setup compared to first IKEA location, I know now the first IKEA had a older box spring and older (slight saggy) mattress in their Morgangava setup.
MATRAND and MYRBACKA felt almost identical although the MYRBACKA was on a semi-flex slats setup where as the MATRAND was on a non-flex slats setup.
IMO, if you really like the Morgangava and think it a bit thin get it along with the TROMSDALEN topper since they both should be the exact same latex (I unzipped the TROMSDALEN) which in turn should give you 8" or 6" plus 2" instead of just 6" of Latex on the Morgangava.
Just to confirm your comments … they are the same type and blend of latex.
If you test the mattress/topper combination together to confirm that they are a good “match” in terms of PPP then they would certainly be worth considering. There are also many other options for latex toppers that use different types and blends of latex in different thicknesses and firmnesses than the Tromsdalen as well although you wouldn’t be able to test the combination in person,
I might get some heat for this but my absolute favorite mattress/topper combination at IKEA yesterday was the SULTAN HOLMSTA + TROMSDALEN.
I’m fully aware of the lower quality materials in the top layers on the SULTAN HOLMSTA and this is the reason why I would be purchasing it with the TROMSDALEN topper basically to slow down the process of the top layers of the SULTAN HOLMSTA from sagging too soon.
To me the SULTAN HOLMSTA on it’s own felt already so good in store and this is on a IKEA foundation that has about 5"-6" spacing between the slats found the foundation (can be fixed).
In combination with the TROMSDALEN topper the SULTAN HOLMSTA did not feel any softer or firmer with the topper on significantly cooler in temperature with a slight bit more bounce.
I will be going to Quality Mattress Factory Inc. today to check out their two sided coil mattress and back to Dreamstar Bedding tomorrow to check out their Natural Escape (Hybrid Latex) and some non fancy pocketed coil mattresses with the IKEA TROMSDALEN topper in mind, that’s it; no more mattress shopping, it’s becoming a chore.
