First time latex mattress on budget and need some advice on foundation.

Phoenix,

So I’ve narrowed it down to two mattresses in pocket coil that I’m certainly going to get, I’ve ruled out the Natural Escape from Dreamstar because I still prefer the feeling pocket coils to an all foam core and since I’m buying the mattress only for myself as a filler to get ready for and finish my studies; I don’t mind saving a bit more money to spend on other things of slightly higher quality that I need: a mattress protector/pad, a bed frame, pillows, a duvet, etc…

Dreamstar Monaco Limited $430:
3 Zoned Tempered Pocket Coils (682 Count)
Triple Edge Guard
1" Insulator Pad
3/4" Comfort Layer (very likely less than 1.5 lbs)
2" High Density Soy Foam (1.8 lbs)
1/2" Foam + Hollow Fill + Blended Cotton Fabric

IKEA Sultan Holmsta $565:
5 Zone Tempered Pocket Coil (380 Count)
360 Foam Encasement (1.5 lbs)
Insulator Layer
1" High Density Foam (1.5 lbs)
1/2" Comfort Layer (unknown density, likely less than 1.5 lbs)
1" Blended Latex (20% Natural)
1/2" Foam + Polyester Fill + Blended Tencel Fabric

I will be getting a 2" Dunlop topper from Memory Foam Canada or 2" Talalay topper from Dreamstar (depending on price) regardless of which mattress I end up, my first choice being the Monaco Limited from Dreamstar.

The Sultan Holmsta highlights being it has 1" Blended Latex in the top comfort layer, blended Tencel fabric, 360 high density foam encasement (up to 10% more usable sleeping space) and IMO IKEA has more consistent workmanship (especially the coils, I currently laying on a 10+ year old IKEA double sided coil mattress for reference).

The Monaco Limited highlights being it has a thicker 2" layer of higher density foam in the top comfort layer, has 75% more pocket coils, Hollow Fill in the quilt layer, is $135 cheaper (tax included on both) and Andy has been outstanding in customer service.

Other thoughts:
-Both mattresses are very close to within margin of your guideline for having 1" of less of lower density foam is the comfort layers.
-360 high density foam encasement gives more sleeping area but is a pricey premium and not needed since triple edge guard system works just a well with 2" of high density foam followed by 2" of Latex topper layers over the metal edge guards.
-Higher coil counts doesn’t equate to higher quality/comfort, IKEA’s coil quality has been outstanding from my experience however a 75% more coil count cannot be overlooked.

Hi SuperJ,

Thanks for the update … and it’s good to see that you had the chance to test the combination in person.

That’s not surprising given the point elasticity of latex (the ability to contour to the shape of the body) and that it only has a single layer.

Phoenix

Hi Nemix,

[quote]Dreamstar Monaco Limited $430:
3 Zoned Tempered Pocket Coils (682 Count)
Triple Edge Guard
1" Insulator Pad
3/4" Comfort Layer (very likely less than 1.5 lbs)
2" High Density Soy Foam (1.8 lbs)
1/2" Foam + Hollow Fill + Blended Cotton Fabric

IKEA Sultan Holmsta $565:
5 Zone Tempered Pocket Coil (380 Count)
360 Foam Encasement (1.5 lbs)
Insulator Layer
1" High Density Foam (1.5 lbs)
1/2" Comfort Layer (unknown density, likely less than 1.5 lbs)
1" Blended Latex (20% Natural)
1/2" Foam + Polyester Fill + Blended Tencel Fabric

-Both mattresses are very close to within your guidelines of having 1" of less of lower density foam is the comfort layers.[/quote]

Guidelines such as these have “fuzzy edges” because something doesn’t suddenly go from good to bad as soon as it goes over a certain threshold so the guideline I use is no more than “about an inch or so” of lower density polyfoam in quilting layers. The quilting process (or tufting even more so) pre-compresses the foam which makes it more durable so if a quilting layer has about 1.5" of polyfoam then I would still consider it to be OK. The density will also play a role because much of the quilting foam is in the range of 1.2 lb density or even lower which is less durable than 1.5 lb foam. Firmness will also play a role because firmer materials tend to be more durable than softer materials that compress more easily.

The Dreamstar Monaco has 1 1/4" of lower quality/density materials in the comfort layers so I would certainly consider this to be OK.

The Sultan Holmsta has about 2" of lower quality/density materials in the comfort layers so this would be a more risky choice.

I also tend to prefer steel edge support vs a foam encasement … especially if the encasement is only 1.5 lbs (see post #2 here).

The coil count is only one of many variables that can affect the feel and performance of the mattress (including the gauge of the coils and the number of turns in the coils) and that also affect on the amount of steel in the innerspring unit and coil counts by themselves aren’t particularly meaningful. Again though … the innerspring wouldn’t likely be the weakest link in the mattress and as long as a mattress is a good “match” for you in terms of PPP then the quality/density of the foam layers above the innerspring would be a much more important factor in the durability and useful life of the mattress than the number of coils. Assuming that there weren’t any obvious weak links in the mattress … I would choose a mattress that had a lower coil count but was a better “match” in terms of “comfort” and PPP over a mattress that had a higher coil count but wasn’t as suitable in terms of its overall feel and performance.

Phoenix

I suspect a Dunlop Latex mattress that’s 2 inches thicker than the Morgongava and has a softer upper 2-3" would my dream setup (for me), based on my newfound mattress education. I can probably get pretty close to the same feeling by adding a softer topper to it eventually (assuming I exchange the Heggedal for the Morgongava). this will suite my budget a little better as I can defer the last $300 for a couple months.

Hi SuperJ,

As I mentioned earlier there is always some additional risk and uncertainty when you can’t test a mattress/topper combination in person but if a mattress/topper combination turns out to be a good “match” for you in terms of PPP then it also has the advantage that it allows you to replace just the topper without replacing the entire mattress if it softens or breaks down before the upper foam layers in the mattress (the upper layers or a sleeping system tend to soften or break down before the deeper layers) or if your needs or preferences change over time and a topper can also help extend the useful life of the mattress underneath it.

If you do decide to go in this direction then your plan to spend some time on the mattress by itself first would be helpful because then you can choose the thickness and firmness of the topper that would have the best chance of success after you have gone through the initial break in and adjustment period on the mattress by itself.

Phoenix

Thank you very much Phoenix, I’ve now ruled out the Sultan Holmsta from IKEA.

I still have possibly one last comparison to make both mattresses being from Dreamstar:

Dreamstar Monaco Limited $430:
3 Zone Tempered Pocket Coils - Count 682
Triple Edge Guard
1" Insulator Pad
3/4" Comfort Layer (very likely less than 1.5 lbs)
2" High Density Soy Foam (1.8 lbs)
1/2" Foam + Hollow Fill + Blended Cotton Fabric

Dreamstar Serenity 2 $550
2 Sided Flip Design
Tempered Pocket Coils - Count 682
Triple Edge Guard
1" Insulator Pad (on both sides)
3/4" comfort Layer (should be on both sides)
1" High Density Soy Foam (on both sides)
3/4" Foam + Hollow Fill + Blended Bamboo Fabric (highly compressed on both sides)

I’ve read your posts on two sided mattress and their durability when regularly maintained and I can backup those statements since I’m currently sleeping on an IKEA two sided mattress for reference.

Since I sit up right on my mattress very often (with my back leaning on a pillowed headboard) when using my laptop, would a two sided mattress with 1" less high density foam (in the Euro Top when compared to the Monaco which has 2" of high density foam, all other thing being equal) benefit me at all in terms of durability?

As stated in the above post I will be getting a 2" Latex topper but since I’m now highly considering the two sided Serenity 2 with 1" less high density foam, would is be better to get a 3" Latex topper to go with the Serenity 2 or would it be the same with a 2" Latex topper (Serenity 2 felt firmer and less contouring than Monaco Limited in the showroom)?

Other thoughts:
-Both mattresses have the same coil count and tempered coils, the Monaco coil are 3 zoned which adds to comfort and contouring of the body.

  • Two sided can be beneficial for durability but being single and getting a mattress in full size, it can turn out to be tricky to maintain the mattress flipping cycles.

Hi Nemix,

The information you listed doesn’t include the density of the foam layers so if you can find them out and list them on the forum I’d be happy to make some comments about the quality/durability of the materials and and let you know if I can see any obvious weak links in the mattress…

Sitting on a mattress on a regular basis can tend to soften the foam under where you are sitting more rapidly because of the higher weight concentration in a smaller area but if all other things are equal and you flip and rotate the mattress on a regular basis (see post #2 here) then I would expect that a two sided mattress with an inch less foam on each side would certainly be more durable than a one sided mattress with an inch more foam on one side.

Unfortunately there is no way for me to know this because the only way to know which mattress/topper combination will be the best “match” for you would be based on your own careful testing or personal experience.

I would sleep on the mattress by itself for a while and then I would use your actual sleeping experience along with the topper guidelines I linked in a previous reply as a reference point to help you choose the type, thickness, and firmness of a topper that has the best chance of success.

Phoenix

Sorry the 1" high density foam on the Serenity 2 is 1.8 lbs just like the 2" high density foam on the Monaco Limited, all other things being pretty much equal in the comfort and quilting layers (unknown foam but they could be using either firmer foam or slightly higher density being a two sided mattress by design).

IMHO, the price of the Serenity 2 should only be up to $100 more than the Monaco (it has 1" less high density foam on both sides) but I kind of understand the higher than overage price (for two sided over one sided) since the Monaco is on a limited time sale (even cheaper than regular sale) probably due to overstock pre-manufactured as oppose to newly manufacturing of the Serenity 2 by order.

Edit:

I will likely have to look into buying a torsion modular foundation or real box spring if i get the Serenity 2, since I’m reading those are the best types of boxes for two sided mattresses even though I’ve been using a solid slats bottom on my current IKEA two sided mattress (no research done back then); hopefully Dreamstar Bedding makes one of the two boxes suitable for two sided mattresses.

Hi Nemix,

If these specs are correct then it would be find and there would be no obvious weak links in the mattress.

With a two sided pocket coil you should be fine with the foundation that they recommend.

Phoenix

What do you think of this metal bed frame: https://www.thebay.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/en/thebay/home/bed-frames/rock-3-in-1-bed-frame-0045-4650g--24

The two center legs are actually closer then can be seen in picture, there’s an assembly video of the metal bed frame YouTube :lol: : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O2M0HHtd08

Knickerbocker metal bed frames use the same recycled rail steel Leggett & Platt uses in their metal bed frames and is made in the USA.

There’s also a 7 leg version but it’s $40 more and for that money I’d rather get a Leggett & Platt Prestige 9 leg but I’m thinking I don’t need such heavy duty support on a double size mattress with only one person sleeping on it.

I only regret not being able to make up my decision on my mattress two weeks ago since the Knickerbocker metal bed frame was on sale for $20 off with Bay Days two weeks ago…I guess it’s a small price to pay for deciding on a better mattress that will last me longer.

Hi Nemix,

There is more information about metal bedframes in post #10 here but the bedframe you linked would certainly be strong enough and would be fine.

Phoenix

I’m just getting the specs for the Serenity 2 confirmed, possibly tomorrow if the specs are correct I’ll put in my order for Serenity 2 mattress set with semi-fex foundation (Dreamstar only makes semi-flex and wood foundations).

In other news, Dreamstar wants too much for their 2" Talalay Latex topper ($400); I’ll very likely be getting a Soft (20 iDL) Dunlop Latex topper from Memory Foam Canada ($280).

Another question:

Pocket coil mattress cores unlike foam mattress cores do absorb weight and pressure correct?

If so, it would probably be better for me to spend a bit more of Leggett & Platt Prestige 9 leg meta frame since all the weight will be going through the legs to get to the floor.

Hi Nemix,

All the layers and components in a mattress will affect the “feel” and performance of all the other layers both above and below it so what you feel on a mattress is a combination of the “feel” and firmness and properties of all the layers … not just specific layers or components so any mattress that uses a different combination of materials and components will be different from another mattress.

All the layers and components of a mattress compress simultaneously (one doesn’t start compressing when the ones above it are “finished” compressing) but they each compress to a different degree or percentage of their thickness based on their firmness level, thickness, what is above them, and how deep they are inside the mattress. Softer layers compress more than firmer layers, thicker layers compress more than thinner layers, all layers compress less when there are thicker or firmer layers above them, and upper layers compress more than deeper layers.

There is also more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel”.

Assuming that the materials in a mattress you are considering are durable enough for your body type and meet the quality/durability guidelines here … the choice between different types and combinations of materials and components or different types of mattresses are more of a preference and a budget choice than a “better/worse” choice (see this article).

Either one will be strong enough but of course I would make sure that the foundation you use on top of the steel bedframe is suitable for your mattress.

Phoenix

I just got confirmation of the specifications of the Dreamstar Serenity 2 and placed my order for the mattress set with matching low profile semi-flex foundation, the specs look good and is within or exceeded the specs I originally posted above.

Dreamstar Serenity 2 Set - $700
Two Sided Flip
Tempered Pocket Coils - 682 (Full/Double)
1" Insulator Pad
3/4" Comfort Layer (likely medium density, protective foam)
1-1/2" High Density Bio Foam (1.8 lbs)
1/2" High Density Foam + Hollow Fill + Blended Bamboo (1.5 lbs) - It’s confusing on the official paper but I’m 90% this is the case, since other mattresses from Dreamstar say inches and not 1.5 foam which means more or less 1.5 lbs foam used in the top quilting layer of the Serenity 2 since it’s two sided mattress design.
5.5" Low Profile Semi-Flex Foundation (no corner guards by request)
13" Mattress + 5.5" Foundation (+/- 1/2")

Hi Nemix,

Congratulations on your new mattress :slight_smile:

I think you made a good quality/value choice and I’m looking forward to your comments and feedback once you’ve received it and have had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.

Phoenix

Thanks Phoenix!

Took me long enough, finally it’s over and done with; hoping to get some good quality sleep for the Winter season…

I’m looking for 2" Latex topper right after this purchase, currently I’m fixed on the 2" Dunlop Latex @ 20 iLD from Memory foam Canada (bare/no cover) and Andy from Ton Funiture is offering me a 2" Talalay Latex @ 28 iLD with cover (not sure what if zippered or what fabric is used).

I would highly prefer the Talalay Latex from Andy since the iLD is pretty much a perfect match for me, I tried both the Natural Escape (4" Latex) and Serenity 3 (3" Latex) from Dreamstar and both felt pretty much perfect for me body type but the price asking is a bit steep ($400 with cover) and I’m not sure if there’s an option without cover.

On the other hand, Memory Foam Canada’s 2" Dunlop Latex topper is better priced ($280) with optional zippered type covers if needed, the owner for Memory Foam Canada has been extremely kind and prompt on answering all my questions about their Latex toppers.

Below is a comparison specs on both Latex toppers I have in mind:

(Memory Foam Canada)
2" Organic Dunlop Latex @ 20 iLD - $280 (pouring process unknown, not zoned)
Optional Zipped Covers: Terry Cotton - $70, Blended Bamboo (50/50) - $110

(Ton Furniture/Dreamstar Bedding)
2" Talalay Latex @ 28 iLD with Cover - $400 (cover fabric material/zippered unknown will ask, pouring process unknown, might be zoned will ask)

Hi Nemix,

Latex can oxidize faster with exposure to air and ozone and ultraviolet light along with other substances that can damage it (see here) so it’s always a good idea for a latex topper to have a dedicated cover to give it the best possible protection and to help maximize it’s useful lifetime. It can also help protect the topper from tearing when you handle it.
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: primelineindustries.com/natural-rubber-chemcompchart.html

[quote]Below is a comparison specs on both Latex toppers I have in mind:

(Memory Foam Canada)
2" Organic Dunlop Latex @ 20 iLD - $280 (pouring process unknown, not zoned)
Terry Cotton Cover - $70, Blended Bamboo Cover (50/50) - $110

(Ton Furniture/Dreamstar Bedding)
2" Talalay Latex @ 28 iLD with Cover - $400 (cover fabric material/zippered unknown will ask, pouring process unknown, might be zoned will ask) [/quote]

I can’t speak to whether either of the toppers you are considering would be a good “match” both for you and the mattress you would be using it on but both of the toppers you are considering are certainly good quality and would be durable choices. The choice between Talalay and Dunlop would be a preference and budget choice rather than a “better/worse” choice (see post #7 here for more about the differences between them).

Just like with a mattress the only way to know for certain whether a mattress/topper combination will be a good “match” for you with any certainty will be based on your own personal experience.

Also like purchasing a mattress … the most important part of the “value” of a topper purchase would be …

  1. Careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in the tutorial) to make sure that the mattress/topper combination is a good match for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) … and/or that you are comfortable with the options you have available to return or exchange the topper and any costs involved if you can’t test it in person or aren’t confident that it would be a suitable choice.

  2. Making sure that the topper is made from good quality and durable materials (and in this case they would be closely equivalent in terms of durability)

  3. Comparing your finalists for “value” based on #1 and #2 and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

There are more comments about mattress/topper combinations in my previous reply in post #4 here.

Phoenix

Phoenix,

You’re correct, I was just thinking that just now; I will need to handle the Latex topper alone when flipping my mattress…

I would using a Malouf terry cotton mattress protector (waterproof) over the bare Dunlop Latex topper from Memory Foam Canada with an IKEA mattress pad (I like the Tencel fabric and elastic fit which allows the sides to breath) over the mattress protector followed with a fitted sheet.

If I were to get the Talalay Latex topper with cover from Andy, I would only put the Malouf terry cotton mattress protector followed with a fitted sheet over it (no mattress pad from IKEA).

By the looks though, I’ll probably get a cover regardless which Latex topper I get and just not get the mattress padding from IKEA.

Edit:

The reason why I wanted a Latex topper without cover is so that the topper does not slip off the mattress but don’t mind using a rug anti-slip mat to prevent this from happening but it’s not my preferred method to keep the topper in place as it might change the overall feel of the mattress.

Just emailed you on this topic, but figured that replying to this thread may be a better place to post.

My girlfriend has the firm version of the IKEA Matrand mattress and I absolutely love the feel of it. I want to do my best to re-create that feel but with natural latex. Any advice on that?

Hey JustinC92,

Welcome to the TMU Forum :cheer: ! Thanks for your question.

Hope you don’t mind if I try and help with your question as Phoenix is busily working on some forum updates currently, knew that you had waited a bit for a response. I did see that you received some excellent advice from TMU expert member Sleep EZ, Please help: IKEA Matrand mattress with latex componenets post #2, thanks @RodgerHermes for your insights and assistance.

From IKEA’s website and Matrand/ firm mattress description, these specs were listed within the “Environment & materials” tab:

Materials:
Ticking/ Ticking, side:
64 % cotton, 36 % polyester
Ticking/ Ticking:
64 % polyester, 36 % cotton
Ticking:
50 % polyester, 50 % viscose/rayon
Protective fabric/ Lining/ Part 3:
Non-woven polypropylene
Comfort material:
Polyester/viscose (rayon) fiber wadding, Polyurethane memory foam 3.1 lb/cu.ft, Polyurethane foam 1.7 lb/cu.ft.

You mention an interest in re-creating the “feel” of this memory foam mattress using natural latex instead, so my question for you would be: have you slept on a latex mattress before? Memory foam, with its soft, cradling nature does indeed “sleep warmer” for some as it provides a feeling of “sinking in” with its pressure-reliving capabilities. Latex, on the other hand, is a more elastic, springier foam with a more supportive feel, creating a “sleeping on” the mattress experience. You can read more about different foam constructions in Phoenix’s article “Mattress Comfort Layers- Overview”, useful for understanding how different materials impact the feel of the upper layers of construction. To further break things down, check out “Latex- Pros and Cons” as well as “Memory Foam- Pros and Cons”.

I agree with Rodger’s earlier statement that “the only real way to replicate the feel of that mattress would be to order that same mattress. Also, without actually feeling the mattress there would be no way of knowing how to get an all-latex mattress that feels just like the mattress you referenced.” Trying to find something that is exactly the same is both frustrating and nearly impossible. Every individual layer and component in a mattress (including the cover, FR barrier, any quilting material, and of course all foam layers) will affect the feel and response of every other layer and component both above and below it and the mattress “as a whole”, so you would need to carefully assess the design and the specs that uses exactly the same type of materials to determine if that the mattress in its entirety will be a good “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP(Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences). You can read more in this post discussing the different ways that one mattress can “match” or “approximate” one another. Your best bet to find something close without the ability to comparison shop in the current COVID environment would be to have a detailed conversation with an experienced and knowledgeable manufacturer/retailer such as any of our Trusted Members who through phone chats could better guide you in the selection process for something best matching your personal comfort/ PPP preferences. Hope this helps and keep us posted…

Thanks,
Sensei