FOX Mattress

Hi Phoenix,
Finally made the drive over to Fox Mattress from Central Florida last week to try out their latex. They have 2 mattresses on display both composed of 100% natural tallaly manufactured in Connecticut with about an inch of quilting on each side. The one mattress is just an extra firm 6" core of 40 ild (8 pcf density). The other, which we really liked, adds a 2"-24 ild comfort layer to the top (very comfortable). I was impressed with their materials/manufacturing and knowledge of latex (especially Mic). Anyway, I would like to get your input on a couple of things if you don’t mind.

  1. I am 6’-2"/177 lbs. My wife is 5’-1"/129 lbs. Both side sleepers. I know it boils down to personal comfort/support and preference, but in general does this combination of 40 ild/24ild sound about right for our body types?

  2. Also, Mic told me he could ad a 2" layer to the bottom to make it a s sided/flippable mattress. but in his opinion was not worth the extra money because of the resiliency and durability of the latex. Periodic rotation (head to toe) would be sufficient for this mattress. On a side note. the mattress is very heavy and would be a chore to flip. What do you think?

Thanks for you input.

Hi Halifax,

It would be “in the range” but your own testing will provide much more accurate information than any theory. I would try “bouncing” very slightly on the mattress with your hips and shoulders when you test it to see if you can feel a more “sudden” transition under the comfort layer or if the pressure relief feels more gradual because the difference in firmness between the top 2" layer and the much firmer support layer is fairly large.

A single 6" layer of 40 ILD would be very firm for most side sleepers.

This would be a preference issue and would be up to you. He is right that latex is already a very long lasting material and doesn’t really need a two sided mattress but even with latex, having a two sided mattress will add to it’s useful lifetime. I would also tend to be cautious in choosing a mattress that I haven’t tried because the extra layer could change how it feels and performs slightly in terms of PPP even though it’s on the bottom so it would be a little more “risky” if you haven’t tested the two sided version specifically. I would also keep in mind that even if the mattress lasts longer … by the time you need a new mattress your own needs and preferences may change once you go past about 10 years so even if the mattress is still in great shape … you may need something a little different.

Overall it would depend on the extra price involved, how you feel about flipping it regularly (without which the benefit of a two sided mattress would be lost), and on your confidence that the two sided version would still be a good match for you in terms of PPP.

Phoenix

Thanks for the feedback Phoenix. BTW, Fox has a comfort guarantee (forget it’s either 90 or 120 days) with which they will actually modify/change out layers or provide different bed. They appear to be a top notch company.

Hi Halifax,

This is one of the advantages of dealing with a local manufacturer because they can make fine tuning adjustments to a mattress instead of having to exchange the whole mattress for another one.

I completely agree with you here. Rick and his staff are very knowledgeable and helpful and great to deal with.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix and Happy New Year.
Appreciate your insight.
I had all but settled on the 8" mattress from FOX (6" 40 ild core/2" 24 ild comfort). I am planning to try your suggestion of a “bouncing” test to investigate the possible sudden transition between the comfort and support layers.

So…yesterday I decided to stop by OMF to try their latex once more as a final point of comparison only to find out they have discontinued their previous latex mattress and replaced them with “Serenity Latex” which consist of a very nice stretchy cover with 1" 19 ild and 2" 24 ild on both sides of a 4 1/2" thick 30 ild poly foam. I spent about 15 minutes on this mattress and although it seemed a bit soft it was very comfortable…no instant hip pain that I typically experience when trying out mattresses. It actually was more comfortable “in store” than the FOX mattress.

Anyway, I am now considering both the FOX Latex and the OMF Serenity, :woohoo:
Here are my concerns:

  1. If I decide on the FOX Mattress will the large variation between the layers come back to haunt me. 40 ild is really firm.

  2. Are you familiar with the new OMF latex? It’s very comfortable, but is a 30 id support layer be too soft over time? As a side question are the ilds of poly foam equivalent to ilds of latex . In other words does the 30 poly ild = 30 ild latex?

As always, your opinion is appreciated.

Hi Halifax,

While 40 ILD is certainly firm … the firmness rating is taken at 25% compression and if the layer is compressed less than this is would be softer so it would really depend on how your body type interacts with the mattress as a whole. With the “bouncing” test and their ability to make adjustments to the mattress its unlikely that it will come back to “haunt” you if you test it carefully and with a mattress that is a little bit too firm you can always add a topper to add some extra pressure relief so with Fox’s ability to make adjustments to the mattress and/or add a topper you still would have good options but there is little you can do to “fix” a mattress that is too soft without removing and replacing layers instead of adding to them.

I don’t have any personal experience with it (OMF doesn’t have any stores near me) but again … only personal testing and experience can really know if a mattress is suitable and there is no “formula” that can know this based on specs. The firmness of polyfoam is also measured differently than latex so 30 ILD would be firmer than the same ILD with latex (see post #6 here). You can see my thoughts about the new Serenity in post #3 here. You can also see my thoughts about a latex/polyfoam hybrid vs an all latex mattress in post #2 here.

ILD is not a “quality” spec though so when you are testing a mattress locally it’s not an important factor to take into account because your body will tell you more about whether a mattress is a suitable “match” for you than any “comfort specs” such as ILD. Neither of the mattresses you are considering have any obvious weak links in their construction so any final choice between them would be a choice between “good and good”.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,
I went back to Fox last week and tested out the mattress again. Like it a lot and about to pull the trigger on it, but wanted to get your input on one other thing.

To recap:
6"-40 ILD core (100% talalay)
2"-24 ILD comfort layer (100% talalay)
Each side is covered with approx. 1.5" of soy based poly quilted into a cotton cover.

I was wondering about the durability of the soy based poly. Is it a quality material? Do you see this as a concern?
I know the latex is very durable and was concerned with combining it with an inferior material in the mattress.
Thanks

Hi Halifax,

No it wouldn’t be a concern for me. Quilting foam is often used in a cover to modify the surface feel of the mattress, to help the mattress keep its shape, and is a preference for many people vs sleeping directly on latex. If the polyfoam quilting layer is “in the range” of around an inch or so then it wouldn’t have an effect on the durability of the mattress and the quilting will also pre-compress the material and increase it’s durability.

Once a quilting layer is 2" or more then I would want to make sure the density of the quilting foam was good quality because it could begin to affect durability but this wouldn’t be a concern in thinner quilting layers. There is more about the effects of quilting materials in post #12 here.

When you have a high quality manufacturer like Fox it would be very unlikely that they would design a mattress that has any obvious weak links in its construction and this is no exception :).

Phoenix

Thanks Phoenix,
I will be purchasing this mattress today (with 5% discount!). I will be back with reports. Thanks again for all of your valuable insight.

Hi Halifax,

I think you made a great choice and it’s always good to see one more person that comes to realize the quality and value available from dealing with a knowledgeable and experienced local manufacturer like Fox Mattress.

Congratulations on your new mattress :slight_smile:

I’m looking forward to your feedback once you’ve had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,
We have had our latex mattress from FOX for about 2 months and I wanted to provide a little feedback.

Here’s a recap of the mattress specs.:
6"-40 ILD core (100% talalay)
2"-24 ILD comfort layer (100% talalay)
Each side is covered with approx. 1.5" of soy based poly quilted into a cotton cover.

Our Specs: :slight_smile:
Me: 6’-2". 175#
Wife 5’-1", 128#
Both: 90% side sleepers, 10% back sleepers

This is our first latex mattress and to put it simply…my wife and I love this mattress!
Without a doubt the most comfortable mattress we have ever owned in our 35 years together. And this is not compared to cheap mattresses. We have owned quality inner spring mattresses, most recently from OMF.

I find an interesting dynamic to the latex that distinguishes it from the feel of inner spring. The support is uniform throughout your entire body. Whereas with an innerspring the support is spotty…not that you can feel the springs, but it’s just not continuously uniform. Hope that make sense. Also, when you first lay on the mattress it appears very firm but after you lay on it it conforms to your body and is very comfortable. For folks who prefer a more plush feel you might want an extra inch of the 24LD (3" total) comfort layer or a softer layer on top. FOX will customize if desired. But for us it’s just right.

Finally, we probably could have saves a few hundred dollars purchasing some where online, but for us being able to go in the store and try it out was worth the cost.

Thanks again for your help and all the info provided on this site.

Hi Halifax,

Thanks for taking the time to share your update and comments about your mattress.

I think that your comments about innersprings vs latex especially are a great “real life” explanation of what I call “point elasticity” which is the ability of a mattress to contour to your body shape and profile because latex has millions of cells or “points of compression” and springs have only hundreds and the “even support” that you mentioned is part of the reason that many people prefer latex as a support material.

It’s great to see that you and your mattress are getting along so well :slight_smile:

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,
I didn’t think I’d be back here so soon, but I’m having a bit of an issue with our mattress and would welcome your thoughts. To reiterate our specs from previous posts:

Me: 6’-2". 175#
Wife 5’-1", 128#
Both: 90% side sleepers, 10% back sleepers

6"-40 ILD core (100% talalay)
2"-24 ILD comfort layer (100% talalay)
Each side is covered with approx. 1.5" of soy based poly quilted into a cotton cover.

I still really like this mattress, but over the last month +/- I have been waking up with shoulder aches that are not severe, but noticeable throughout the day. I also find myself changing positions several times during the night. My wife has no issue at all, but she is more evenly proportioned than I am. I have fairly broad shoulders (about 4" from armpit to shoulder). I’m thinking there are 2 possible causes for this situation:

  1. The 2"- 24ild comfort layer is too firm for me. Although I would prefer a slightly softer top layer I don’t believe this is causing my shoulder issues.

  2. The 2"- 24ild comfort layer is too thin and my shoulders are pushing through and contacting the 40ild core. I believe this is the most likely scenario.

I am thinking there are 2 possible solutions to my problem:

  1. Contact FOX about a possible surgical solution of adding a thicker/softer layer to the comfort layer of the mattress. I’m a bit reluctant to purse this solution since I live about an hour from their factory and there are no guarantees this would fix it. Plus my wife is happy with the mattress as is and this would be a permanent change that could effect her comfort level.

  2. A less intrusive solution would be to add a latex topper. I have read through several of your topper posts on this site and talked with a few of the recommended topper suppliers. There is some difference in opinion on 2" vs 3" and soft vs medium, but the general consensus is that a 2" topper in the 19 ild range might be my best choice for success. I know it’s not an exact science. The 2" could be too thin and not eleviate the problem. The 3 " could be too thick and effect support, but I’m leaning towards 2".

An additional note. I did rotate (not flip) the mattress about 6 weeks ago. I don’t recall having this issue prior to that although it just may have not been as severe or noticeable.

Anyway, sorry for the long post, but I wanted to give you as much info as possible. I value your expertise and opinion on this subject.

Thanks,
Halifax

Hi Halifax,

Post #2 here has some suggestions for a mattress that is too firm when you first sleep on it and post #2 here has more information about some of the possible causes behind the most common “symptoms” that people may experience on a mattress that may be helpful.

[quote]1. The 2"- 24ild comfort layer is too firm for me. Although I would prefer a slightly softer top layer I don’t believe this is causing my shoulder issues.

  1. The 2"- 24ild comfort layer is too thin and my shoulders are pushing through and contacting the 40ild core. I believe this is the most likely scenario.[/quote]

I think your “logic” is good and the odds are high that what you are experiencing is either a pillow issue (which can have a significant effect on shoulder pressure points) or as you mentioned you may need some additional thickness/softness in the comfort layers of your mattress.

The first step I would suggest is a more detailed conversation on the phone or in person with Fox Mattress since the manufacturer will have more experience with their mattresses and the options that they have available that have helped others in similar circumstances than anyone else but if a thicker pillow doesn’t solve the issue (and this would have the benefit of only affecting your side) then I agree that a topper would be the most logical solution.

If you do decide to go in the direction of a topper then post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to should be helpful. When you are adding a topper then “just enough” in terms of thickness and softness to relieve pressure points will generally be the least risky in terms of alignment. 2" in a slightly lower ILD than what you have now would be a reasonable “average” choice and as you mentioned would be a little less risky than a thicker topper. It would be very unlikely that you would feel much of the firmness of the support core under your current 2" comfort layer, the 1.5" of quilting foam, and an additional 2" topper.

Phoenix

Thanks again Phoenix.
Any suggestions on pillows? My wife uses a latex about 6" thick that she likes. I am also aware that tempurpedic makes a memory foam pillow that can be kind of shaped to fit…similar to a bean bag.

Hi Halifax,

I don’t have any specific suggestions for pillows (pillows are too personal an item with too many individual preferences involved) but the pillow thread here should be helpful.

Pillows that are “scrunchable” are a good idea for people who sleep in different positions and need a different pillow height for each position and there are also pillows (often with shredded latex but other materials as well) that have a zip cover and can be customized with different amounts of fill so you can adjust the height and/or softness on an individual basis.

Phoenix

Halifax, any update on your shoulder comfort? My husband and I are considering this same mattress. He is 6’, 190lb is a side sleeper and has large shoulders - I measured according to the tips and tricks page, and he needs about 4" of cushioning for his shoulders. I’m wondering how your mattress is working out, and if you resolved your shoulder pain issue? My husband has shoulder pain with our old mattress, and it is something we want a new mattress to address.