Getting closer to diy mattress build, need some advice please

Would you have a link to High Resilience Cold Cure PU Foam Specifications? I am still considering the latex but the more I learn about this HR foam I think it may be an alternative but the seller I’m considering (foam online) is the only specifications I have to go by: Specifications:
Weight: 3.0 lb. per cubic ft.
Quality: excellent
Longevity: approx. 12 years
Density lbs/cu. ft.: Minimum 2.50
ILD/50 sq. in. @25%(4 in.) 35% max.
Support Factor: 2.5
Hysterisis Loss @25% 35% max.
Tear Strength, lbs/linear in. 1.50 PLI min.
Tensile Strength, lbs/sq. in. 12.0 PSI min.
Elongation, % 150% min.
Resilience, % 50% min.
Compression set,
90%, 22 hrs., 158° F Less than 10%
Color 110 - Yellow

Thank you, I’ve been looking and looking and can not find specs on this kind of foam to compare.

Hi alphralpha,

I’m not quite sure what extra information that you’re looking to acquire, as what you posted here is already quite detailed. The density offered is above 2.5 lb, and the Support Factor is above 2.4, so this is part of the classification of a true High Resiliency polyfoam.

Cold Cure is the process used to make the polyfoam (cures without additional heat being added), as opposed to Hot Cure. There’s a bit more information about that here and here that may be interesting to you.

Phoenix

Can you send me a link to the sellers you have of HR foam? Thanks.

Hi alpharalpha,

I don’t keep a listing of all of the retailers to the public of polyfoam throughout the country, as it would be too large of a project for any one person to maintain, and it’s also not the focus of the forum. However, there are a few sources of which I am aware on the Polyfoam section of the component post here that may be helpful.

Phoenix

I have a question about the wool used in the mattress covers. I live in hot humid FL and wonder if wool will absorb moisture and get musty, if it will increase heat sleeping on it and if it could possible be itchy even thru the covers?
I have the option to get either the joma wool/bamboo cover or a 4-way stretch cover, which do you think would sleep cooler? I’m going with a fairly firm core (36ild blended talalay) and a topper of probably 24 ild also blended talalay and that will be in a bamboo cover. Thanks.

Hi alpharalpha,

Both covers would be breathable and nice options, with the 4-way being a bit more contouring.

Wool is among the best temperature regulating materials but I would also keep in mind that it regulates temperature in both directions (it’s used in the desert and also in cold climates because of this) so while it may not feel “cool” … it generally doesn’t feel “hot” either and it also helps to regulate moisture (which can trap heat) and reduce the perception of temperature that comes from higher humidity levels (similar to how temperatures feel cooler on less humid days than they do on more humid days). Wool stores moisture inside the fiber itself so it’s very resistant to mold and mildew and this isn’t something that I would have any concern about with a mattress cover that has quilted wool covered with cotton.

There is more about all the variables that can affect sleeping temperature in post #2 here.

Wool allergies or sensitivities are generally contact allergies or sensitivities and it would be unlikely that they would be an issue in a mattress. There is more about wool allergies or sensitivities in post #2 here and in post #4 here .

There is some good information about wool on The Wool Gatherer site here.

Phoenix

Could you please explain these foams specifications? I understand some of it but not entirely, especially the ild 25" 40% & 60% numbers. Overall what do you think of the quality, durability of this foam? Thanks.

https://https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/36408/FCG126HR4225rev1.pdf

Hi alpharalpha,

This is simply the amount of force (in this case Newtons) to compress the sample 25%, 40% and 65% of its resting height.

Using rounded conversions…

The HR4235 is a 2.4 – 2.7 lb density. The ILD ranges that they produce (converting Newtons to pounds force) would be roughly 19-30 when measured at 25% compression (“normal” ILD rating for polyfoam), 26-38 at 40% compression and 55-80 at 60% compression.

The HR4225 is a 2.4 – 2.7 lb density. The ILD ranges that they produce (converting Newtons to pounds force) would be roughly 15-23 when measured at 25% compression (“normal” ILD rating for polyfoam), 20-30 at 40% compression and 40-62 at 60% compression.

The compressions modulus rates out as High Resilience on both styles.

Objectively, both foams seem to be good quality materials, with the HR 4225 being softer at the same density as the HR 4335. A phone call to the supplier could speak to more subjective comparisons between the two products.

Phoenix

I read this in an article “Because, unlike Polyfoam, once a Latex Mattress ‘dies’ - it becomes almost completely useless fast, losing resiliency or the ability to support or 'bounce back.”
Is this true, does latex at some point just give out, instead of slowly becoming softer over the long term like polyfoam?

Hi alpharalpha,

[quote]I read this in an article “Because, unlike Polyfoam, once a Latex Mattress ‘dies’ - it becomes almost completely useless fast, losing resiliency or the ability to support or 'bounce back.”
Is this true, does latex at some point just give out, instead of slowly becoming softer over the long term like polyfoam?[/quote]

I wouldn’t begin to rely upon much of what the author espouses in the article to which you’re referring, as it’s full of inaccurate information. Latex, like other foams, softens over time. The change with latex tends to be more gradual and it is one of the most durable cushioning materials available. The change is not all or nothing. What you described would generally be what happens to latex foam when it is at the very end stage of being a foam and it has oxidized or undergone UV radiation or mechanical stresses to the point it crumbles, which would be much longer than and after the useful life of the product. There’s a bit more complete information about this here.

Phoenix

Is the blended talalay a one piece core in twin xl size (38"x80"x6")? I think it is but as I’m actually close to purchasing a mattress I wanted to make sure as I don’t want a glued seam.
I also have included a picture of the KD Foundations Frame. Using the oil enamel might make a better bond but the fumes were terrible; it’s been a month and it’s cured and fumes are about gone. Be nice to actually have the bed after all this. I will save the HR foam for when I replace my couch cushions. (The color is Sherwin Williams Honeycomb, Gloss.)

https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/36408/IMG_0249.JPG

Hi Alpharalpha,

In the US, the newer Talalay molds produce cores in 40" x 80" x 6", or 60" x 80" x 6", so there would be no need for there to be a head to toe seam in a twin xl mattress core. Some companies may laminate two 3" pieces together to achieve the 6" total thickness, which should not impact performance if the pieces are the same ILD. You can always check with any suppliers you are considering to confirm what they offer.

Thanks for the photos of your bed set! Very nice.

Phoenix

The wool stuff is not liked by me, it can be annoying… you can’t expect the softness and it may produce heat as well. :slight_smile:

The use of wool has been an issue, do you have any alternative suggestions?

Hi rka629,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:

Whether or not you personally prefer it, wool is a great material that is a strong preference for some people and there are certainly some good benefits to sleeping on wool, but it will be different and firmer than sleeping on a soft foam material (and it will also get a little firmer as it compresses over time).

The type of breed used for the raw wool and the thickness and resilience of the wool fibers, the compression of the wool batts, the tufting or quilting of the topper, and the overall construction and layering of the topper along with the amount of wool inside will all affect the feel and performance of the wool topper so I would suggest a conversation with any retailer or manufacturer to talk about a specific topper when you aren’t familiar with a specific wool topper or with wool toppers as a whole.

Wool is a great material and with the right construction can provide some cushioning to pressure points, add to humidity control and temperature regulation, and is a less risky choice for alignment issues (because you won’t sink into it as unevenly as foam materials). It can also reduce the amount that your pressure points sink into the layers below it (which can be a plus or a minus depending on circumstances). For most people it would “soften” firm latex below it and it would “firm up” soft latex below it. Adding a wool topper is not like adding a plush piece of latex – it tends to be more “medium” in comparison.

Of course depending on the thickness of the wool layer it would change the feel of the mattress and you would feel less of the properties of the layers below and more of the properties of the wool itself. It can also lower the resilience of the mattress surface (wool is a resilient fiber but it is less resilient than most foams). It can also even out the surface of a mattress which has some soft spots to some degree because it will increase the surface area around the pressure points which can help them sink in a little less.

Natural fibers like wool though won’t be as soft as softer foams and will compress about 30% over time (this is a natural process with fibers and not a defect) which creates a tendency to become firmer over time rather than become softer like foam layers. At first the compression may result in impressions but by sleeping on different parts of the topper over time it can even out the compression of the wool (see post #3 here). Overall and in the right circumstances they can make a very good choice and some people prefer to sleep on a thicker wool topper vs any other material.

Regarding temperature, wool is among the best temperature regulating materials but I would also keep in mind that it regulates temperature in both directions (it’s used in the desert and also in cold climates because of this) so while it may not feel “cool” … it generally doesn’t feel “hot” either and it also helps to regulate moisture (which can trap heat) and reduce the perception of temperature that comes from higher humidity levels (similar to how temperatures feel cooler on less humid days than they do on more humid days).

Phoenix

Hi Alpharalpha,

There are some “animal friendly” alternatives to wool listed in this article and this article. This article from a knitting site also lists a few common alternatives.

Phoenix

It’s mattresses.net’s Solid Core Latex Mattress " 6" full Talalay blended latex core, beautiful bamboo quilted stretch knit fabric, with 1.5" of Pure Joma Wool quilt on each side to prevent impressions" that I’m considering. It’s a 2 sided sealed mattress that I would probably get in the firm 36 ild (as an alternative I could go with the 32 ild and a 28 ild topper but am pretty sure I’d go with the 36) ; looks like this
https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/36408/Mattresses.netsolidcore2sidedmattress.gif
Mattresses.net suggested a three inch 24 ild topper to match the 36 ild, which I’ll place in a 2 sided bamboo topper; considering this one
https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/36408/bamboocoverimage1(1).jpgfromUltimateSleephttps://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/0https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/1https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/2https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/3https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/4https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/5https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/6https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/7https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/8https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/936408/bamboo0asfarasquality?)They’vebeensayinghttps://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/0https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/1https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/2https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/3https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/4https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/5https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/6https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/7https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/8https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/9materialbutithasn’thappenedyet.Amhttps://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/0https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/1https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/2https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/3https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/4https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/5https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/6https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/7https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/8contactwiththecomfortlayer’scontouring,softnesshttps://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/0https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/1https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/2https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/3https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/4https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/5https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/6https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/7mightnotbeanissue.
But, as an alternative, I can get a 2 sided mattress encasement–Foam Order can make to order, looks kinda like this
https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/36408/mattresscover2sided.jpgwithoutanywooletchttps://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/0https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/1https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/2https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/3https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/4https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/5https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/6https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/7https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/8https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/936408/mattress0onesI’vefoundarealljustencasementshttps://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/0https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/1https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/2https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/3https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/4https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/5https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/6https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/7https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/8https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/9youthinkthiswouldbemorecomfortable?
In either case I will put both in some sort of protective cover. I have had this brand before and they’re actually pretty good quality and very breathable, but not really waterproof, but a barrier better than nothing, if anyone knows a more waterproof breathable option I’d like to know. Amazon.com

Hi Alpharalpha,

Post #2 here and the links and posts in that thread have some of my thoughts about Ultimate Sleep.

I’m not sure why you’re differentiating a zippered encasement versus a sewn encasement, unless you prefer to be able to unzip and replace/remove materials. As long as the encasement is sturdy enough to help hold the foam layers in place and protect the materials inside form oxidation and UV, it should do a good job. The mattresses.net is a finished mattress so can’t be unzipped or modified. The encasement from Foam Order would allow for foam to be removed or placed inside. The comfort would be mostly determined by the foam placed inside of the covering. The Foam Order cover appears to be some sort of a stretch-knit covering.

The item you listed is supposed to be waterproof, so that’s disappointing if it wasn’t for you. There’s more options listed for mattress protectors in post #89 here and this post here.

Phoenix

I prefer a sewn encasement just because I figure it’ll have more protection that way. I also like the piping on the sewn mattress.
The mattress protector I mentioned is good and wouldn’t mind using it again (mine were on a full so different size than I need now.) I never had problems with spilling anything on it but prior to washing I noticed it was easy to get it wet, is any mattress protector actually totally waterproof without being un-breathable nylon?
I didn’t have the highest opinion of ultimate sleep, their latex selections seem pretty low quality, but they were one of the very few that offered to make a 2 sided topper cover; they were going to send me a sample of the material unfortunately it hasn’t happened over repeated requests. When I asked for information on the material they sent me this which I will attach, it seems to be a Romanian company (not sure) and I couldn’t translate what the 60% Pes Natural/limon–the limon in particular, does this mean linen, do you know what this means? From the info in the pdf does this seem like a good quality material?
With what you were saying about wool, then do you think if I’m going to be using a topper anyways and probably not sleep directly on the actual mattress, would putting a latex core directly into a stretch knit cover like foam order can make make for a more contouring match with the softer topper than the wool finished mattress?

(I’ve taken the 2 sets of samples from Sleep EZ–and wrapped them in a regular topper cover, 6’ long x 1’ wide–I suspect the material from a number of sellers is this same stuff as it always says organic cotton with the same pattern etc–while it’s hard to tell from the pics its is very soft and comfortable, matched with the latex. it’s only 3" thick so I put it on my couch to get a better feel and it’s really nice, don’t know how different the wool would affect that but I do know I like how this feels.)

https://https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/36408/91q3WOoJ85L.SL1500.jpg
https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/36408/51aACUr1e1L.jpg

Hi alpharalpha,

You can get good protection from a sewn or zip-on mattress encasement. It all depends upon the materials being used. The welting (piping) on a finished mattress is commonly called the “tape edge”, and it covers the seams where the side and top panel have been sewn together and in that process also allows for an extra layer of stitching to help hold those panels together.

A weave using nylon would generally be breathable, and what I think you’re referring to is the polyurethane film that is bonded to many mattress protectors that make them waterproof, but somewhat breathable. Mattress protectors using vinyl/plastic/PVC layers would not be breathable.

Lava is headquartered in Belgium, but I’m not familiar with any of the companies where Ultimate Sleep sources their cover materials, and you already have my opinion of them from the links I provided in my previous reply. I think it means 40% viscose, 60% natural.

In general, stretch-knit covers are more flexible than covers quilted to wool, although there are some with wool quilted to stretch-knit covers that are quite flexible.

Phoenix