The wool stuff is not liked by me, it can be annoying… you can’t expect the softness and it may produce heat as well. 
The use of wool has been an issue, do you have any alternative suggestions?
Hi rka629,
Welcome to the Mattress Forum!
Whether or not you personally prefer it, wool is a great material that is a strong preference for some people and there are certainly some good benefits to sleeping on wool, but it will be different and firmer than sleeping on a soft foam material (and it will also get a little firmer as it compresses over time).
The type of breed used for the raw wool and the thickness and resilience of the wool fibers, the compression of the wool batts, the tufting or quilting of the topper, and the overall construction and layering of the topper along with the amount of wool inside will all affect the feel and performance of the wool topper so I would suggest a conversation with any retailer or manufacturer to talk about a specific topper when you aren’t familiar with a specific wool topper or with wool toppers as a whole.
Wool is a great material and with the right construction can provide some cushioning to pressure points, add to humidity control and temperature regulation, and is a less risky choice for alignment issues (because you won’t sink into it as unevenly as foam materials). It can also reduce the amount that your pressure points sink into the layers below it (which can be a plus or a minus depending on circumstances). For most people it would “soften” firm latex below it and it would “firm up” soft latex below it. Adding a wool topper is not like adding a plush piece of latex – it tends to be more “medium” in comparison.
Of course depending on the thickness of the wool layer it would change the feel of the mattress and you would feel less of the properties of the layers below and more of the properties of the wool itself. It can also lower the resilience of the mattress surface (wool is a resilient fiber but it is less resilient than most foams). It can also even out the surface of a mattress which has some soft spots to some degree because it will increase the surface area around the pressure points which can help them sink in a little less.
Natural fibers like wool though won’t be as soft as softer foams and will compress about 30% over time (this is a natural process with fibers and not a defect) which creates a tendency to become firmer over time rather than become softer like foam layers. At first the compression may result in impressions but by sleeping on different parts of the topper over time it can even out the compression of the wool (see post #3 here). Overall and in the right circumstances they can make a very good choice and some people prefer to sleep on a thicker wool topper vs any other material.
Regarding temperature, wool is among the best temperature regulating materials but I would also keep in mind that it regulates temperature in both directions (it’s used in the desert and also in cold climates because of this) so while it may not feel “cool” … it generally doesn’t feel “hot” either and it also helps to regulate moisture (which can trap heat) and reduce the perception of temperature that comes from higher humidity levels (similar to how temperatures feel cooler on less humid days than they do on more humid days).
Phoenix
Hi Alpharalpha,
There are some “animal friendly” alternatives to wool listed in this article and this article. This article from a knitting site also lists a few common alternatives.
Phoenix
It’s mattresses.net’s Solid Core Latex Mattress " 6" full Talalay blended latex core, beautiful bamboo quilted stretch knit fabric, with 1.5" of Pure Joma Wool quilt on each side to prevent impressions" that I’m considering. It’s a 2 sided sealed mattress that I would probably get in the firm 36 ild (as an alternative I could go with the 32 ild and a 28 ild topper but am pretty sure I’d go with the 36) ; looks like this
https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/36408/Mattresses.netsolidcore2sidedmattress.gif
Mattresses.net suggested a three inch 24 ild topper to match the 36 ild, which I’ll place in a 2 sided bamboo topper; considering this one
https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/36408/bamboocoverimage1(1).jpgfromUltimateSleephttps://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/0https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/1https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/2https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/3https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/4https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/5https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/6https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/7https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/8https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/936408/bamboo0asfarasquality?)They’vebeensayinghttps://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/0https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/1https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/2https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/3https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/4https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/5https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/6https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/7https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/8https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/9materialbutithasn’thappenedyet.Amhttps://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/0https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/1https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/2https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/3https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/4https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/5https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/6https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/7https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/8contactwiththecomfortlayer’scontouring,softnesshttps://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/0https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/1https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/2https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/3https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/4https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/5https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/6https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/7mightnotbeanissue.
But, as an alternative, I can get a 2 sided mattress encasement–Foam Order can make to order, looks kinda like this
https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/36408/mattresscover2sided.jpgwithoutanywooletchttps://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/0https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/1https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/2https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/3https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/4https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/5https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/6https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/7https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/8https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/936408/mattress0onesI’vefoundarealljustencasementshttps://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/0https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/1https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/2https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/3https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/4https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/5https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/6https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/7https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/8https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/9youthinkthiswouldbemorecomfortable?
In either case I will put both in some sort of protective cover. I have had this brand before and they’re actually pretty good quality and very breathable, but not really waterproof, but a barrier better than nothing, if anyone knows a more waterproof breathable option I’d like to know. Amazon.com
Hi Alpharalpha,
Post #2 here and the links and posts in that thread have some of my thoughts about Ultimate Sleep.
I’m not sure why you’re differentiating a zippered encasement versus a sewn encasement, unless you prefer to be able to unzip and replace/remove materials. As long as the encasement is sturdy enough to help hold the foam layers in place and protect the materials inside form oxidation and UV, it should do a good job. The mattresses.net is a finished mattress so can’t be unzipped or modified. The encasement from Foam Order would allow for foam to be removed or placed inside. The comfort would be mostly determined by the foam placed inside of the covering. The Foam Order cover appears to be some sort of a stretch-knit covering.
The item you listed is supposed to be waterproof, so that’s disappointing if it wasn’t for you. There’s more options listed for mattress protectors in post #89 here and this post here.
Phoenix
I prefer a sewn encasement just because I figure it’ll have more protection that way. I also like the piping on the sewn mattress.
The mattress protector I mentioned is good and wouldn’t mind using it again (mine were on a full so different size than I need now.) I never had problems with spilling anything on it but prior to washing I noticed it was easy to get it wet, is any mattress protector actually totally waterproof without being un-breathable nylon?
I didn’t have the highest opinion of ultimate sleep, their latex selections seem pretty low quality, but they were one of the very few that offered to make a 2 sided topper cover; they were going to send me a sample of the material unfortunately it hasn’t happened over repeated requests. When I asked for information on the material they sent me this which I will attach, it seems to be a Romanian company (not sure) and I couldn’t translate what the 60% Pes Natural/limon–the limon in particular, does this mean linen, do you know what this means? From the info in the pdf does this seem like a good quality material?
With what you were saying about wool, then do you think if I’m going to be using a topper anyways and probably not sleep directly on the actual mattress, would putting a latex core directly into a stretch knit cover like foam order can make make for a more contouring match with the softer topper than the wool finished mattress?
(I’ve taken the 2 sets of samples from Sleep EZ–and wrapped them in a regular topper cover, 6’ long x 1’ wide–I suspect the material from a number of sellers is this same stuff as it always says organic cotton with the same pattern etc–while it’s hard to tell from the pics its is very soft and comfortable, matched with the latex. it’s only 3" thick so I put it on my couch to get a better feel and it’s really nice, don’t know how different the wool would affect that but I do know I like how this feels.)
https://https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/36408/91q3WOoJ85L.SL1500.jpg
https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/36408/51aACUr1e1L.jpg
Hi alpharalpha,
You can get good protection from a sewn or zip-on mattress encasement. It all depends upon the materials being used. The welting (piping) on a finished mattress is commonly called the “tape edge”, and it covers the seams where the side and top panel have been sewn together and in that process also allows for an extra layer of stitching to help hold those panels together.
A weave using nylon would generally be breathable, and what I think you’re referring to is the polyurethane film that is bonded to many mattress protectors that make them waterproof, but somewhat breathable. Mattress protectors using vinyl/plastic/PVC layers would not be breathable.
Lava is headquartered in Belgium, but I’m not familiar with any of the companies where Ultimate Sleep sources their cover materials, and you already have my opinion of them from the links I provided in my previous reply. I think it means 40% viscose, 60% natural.
In general, stretch-knit covers are more flexible than covers quilted to wool, although there are some with wool quilted to stretch-knit covers that are quite flexible.
Phoenix
Hi Alpharalpha,
Ah, well vinyl certainly will no breathe and also isn’t very flexible, so it would be best to avoid in what you are working on. The polyurethane film for waterproofing would be a better choice.
While not completely form fitting, at least the encasement is helping protect your foam layers, and certainly is not taking away much from the point elasticity of the latex.
Phoenix
The mattress protector I mentioned states “1ml thick polyurethane waterproof layer” is that typical/good? And they do say “Please note: This Protector is meant to handle only small amounts of liquid that are addressed immediately. Larger amounts of liquid…” it did sleep cool which was a big concern. I mentioned vinyl as a truly waterproof protector, not as a viable option.
Regarding the pic with the encased samples, I just did this to be able to test out the different densities/ types of latex; it’s been a useful tool that way. While I don’t have 1.5" joma wool to test, I do have a wool flatweave kilim rug w’ a linen backing, do you think this would work to just give a basic approximation if I put this over the encasement as to how the joma wool coverered one would feel compared to as I have it now, like you said it doesn’t take away much from the point elasticity of the latex. This is the thing, if I’m going to use a topper I’d like it to merge with the latex mattress as well as possible which suggests to me that the stretch knit encasement is best, but the finished mattress with the wool, finished tape edge–and looking closely at the pic the cover material seems a better quality, probably getting a better actual mattress from mattresses.net, but don’t know how much that wool is going to stop the 2 layers of latex interacting. 1.5" wool that you say compresses over time seems like a significant hindrance to contact with the latex, FR isn’t an issue for me. Price is the same: I can get the stretch knit 2 sided mattress encasement for $130 from Foam Order, and I think a 6" blended talalay core is around $500, and the finished mattress is $625 (both have shipping costs that bring it up to $700.) That seems to be the bottom line price wise as even if I went with Sleep EZ’s 7000 with a firm dunlop, med talalay it also costs $700 shipped–while not 2 sided this company has a lot of appeal with the layer exchange, different layer density vs solid core and return policy. They also have a stretch knit w/o the wool, here is a pic
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Hi Alpharalpha,
I wouldn’t have a way of determining the quality of the mattress protector you’re referencing, as there are differences in the type of polyurethane used and how it is bonded to the fabric encasement also varies, as well as the quality of the fabric used. What you’ve described is not a waterproof encasement, but one that is water-resistant. Waterproof wouldn’t require the spill to be mopped up quickly.
Wool isn’t a “hindrance” to the latex , but it can add a slight firmness, which would be most evident in the layer directly against your skin and not as noticeable deeper down in the mattress. All of the layers will still work together, but your mass is spread out over a wider area deeper down in the mattress.
The questions you’re asking are getting back into the category again of me trying to predict how something might feel to you, which as I’ve discussed previously I can’t do. Unless all the layers, including the encasement, are the same, anything you change will alter the overall comfort of a mattress. But in this case you’re creating your own DIY product and you don’t have a frame of reference, so unless you were very experienced and skilled in mattress building and the materials used within such a mattress (which would be an incredibly small percentage of the population), I would not try to predict too much from technical details how a mattress will feel but instead rely upon the guidance of experienced and knowledgeable retailers or manufacturers, or copy a known specification that you have already tried.
Phoenix
Here is a pic of the 2 sided mattress encasement that foam order would make for me (except in twin xl shape.) The pic I sent you before was just a similar look as I couldn’t find their actual pic they’d sent me. So this is it
https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/36408/sailboat-mattress.jpg($130+shipping.)
At this point a diy project is not my first choice, think of it like checking an algebra problem, going backwards to check my work. The answer I have come up with would be to get the sewn mattress from mattresses.net: 2 sided 6" blended talalay core (36 ild) with 1.5" wool, stretch knit cover; and put a 24 ild topper over that which is what the seller of the mattress suggested paired with the 36 ild mattress (though I think a 28 ild would do it 24 is what’s been recommended.) I’ve seen a cutout of the wool in a latex mattress and can see, especially in the sides, how it gives the mattress more structure, and like you mentioned the wool spreads the pressure out over the surface, that’s probably actually good so all my weight doesn’t go into one spot, kinda like bonnell coils compared to pocketed springs. I wish I could find a different seller for a 2 sided topper at the price point of ultimate sleep $80 shipped. Do you know of any sellers that might offer a 2 sided topper cover; also do you know sellers of radium 6" cores, as well as toppers, 2,3, 4" etc?
My only alternative interest in a diy at this stage is that their wouldn’t be that wool blocking the 2 layers of latex from working together, etc. You’ve mentioned Talalay Global uses a filler in their blended talalay, do you know any more details on that? Is it common for blended talalay in general to undergo a significant softening at around the 6 month mark, because reading reviews online I’ve come across this a lot and it’s been associated with TG, but that could just be because so many sellers use them here in the USA. Though I haven’t read any complaints about Radium’s blended talalay.
Hi Alpharalpha,
Regarding covers, you already have a link to my listing of some of the better component suppliers of which I am aware vendors in the component post here. You’d have to phone the cover suppliers to see what they offer, as they often will offer items not shown on their web sites.
It’s common for latex manufacturers to use some filler in their product at a level that doesn’t diminish product performance but does lower production costs. There are many types of fillers used industry-wide. I believe feldspar was used years ago in some of the TG blended latex, but I’m not sure now.
It’s common for all foams, even latex, to soften with use over time. I’m not aware of any current “issues” with the latex from Talalay Global or Radium, and I would consider the product from both manufacturers to be a high quality and durable material.
Phoenix
What is the deal with hr foams at a 2.0 lb density? I’ve read 2.5 lb is the minimum; is it possible to make a true hr foam at 2.0 lb? I wouldn’t buy it but I see it from multiple sellers and am just wondering?
Hi alpharaplha,
High resiliency polyfoam would be at least 2.5 lb in density with a compression modulus of at least 2.4. See page 4 of this article describing it from the Polyurethane Foam Association.
Phoenix
I’ve seen several sellers–even a manufacturer–selling what they’re calling a hr foam even though the density is only 2.0 lbs, do you know what they are selling, is it foam with the same cell structure as hr but with a lower density or an altogether different foam? I wouldn’t buy it, but am curious as to what it is?
Hi alpharalpha,
Technically, high resilience foam is defined as 2.5 lb in density, at least 60% ball rebound, and a support factor of at least 2.4. You can see the definition in Section IV, number 13, of the IABFLO Classification of Filling Materials. With that being said, I’ve seen manufacturers use the term for slightly lower densities, just as is sometimes seen with “High Density” polyfoam. I think any specific questions about the actual density, ball rebound, support factor, or other properties would best be addressed to the particular foam pourer or seller you were considering.
Phoenix
I understand now. Thanks.
Hi alpharalpha,
You’re welcome!
Phoenix