Vinyl is what I meant. Here’s a pic of those encased samples.
Hi Alpharalpha,
Ah, well vinyl certainly will no breathe and also isn’t very flexible, so it would be best to avoid in what you are working on. The polyurethane film for waterproofing would be a better choice.
While not completely form fitting, at least the encasement is helping protect your foam layers, and certainly is not taking away much from the point elasticity of the latex.
Phoenix
The mattress protector I mentioned states “1ml thick polyurethane waterproof layer” is that typical/good? And they do say “Please note: This Protector is meant to handle only small amounts of liquid that are addressed immediately. Larger amounts of liquid…” it did sleep cool which was a big concern. I mentioned vinyl as a truly waterproof protector, not as a viable option.
Regarding the pic with the encased samples, I just did this to be able to test out the different densities/ types of latex; it’s been a useful tool that way. While I don’t have 1.5" joma wool to test, I do have a wool flatweave kilim rug w’ a linen backing, do you think this would work to just give a basic approximation if I put this over the encasement as to how the joma wool coverered one would feel compared to as I have it now, like you said it doesn’t take away much from the point elasticity of the latex. This is the thing, if I’m going to use a topper I’d like it to merge with the latex mattress as well as possible which suggests to me that the stretch knit encasement is best, but the finished mattress with the wool, finished tape edge–and looking closely at the pic the cover material seems a better quality, probably getting a better actual mattress from mattresses.net, but don’t know how much that wool is going to stop the 2 layers of latex interacting. 1.5" wool that you say compresses over time seems like a significant hindrance to contact with the latex, FR isn’t an issue for me. Price is the same: I can get the stretch knit 2 sided mattress encasement for $130 from Foam Order, and I think a 6" blended talalay core is around $500, and the finished mattress is $625 (both have shipping costs that bring it up to $700.) That seems to be the bottom line price wise as even if I went with Sleep EZ’s 7000 with a firm dunlop, med talalay it also costs $700 shipped–while not 2 sided this company has a lot of appeal with the layer exchange, different layer density vs solid core and return policy. They also have a stretch knit w/o the wool, here is a pic
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Hi Alpharalpha,
I wouldn’t have a way of determining the quality of the mattress protector you’re referencing, as there are differences in the type of polyurethane used and how it is bonded to the fabric encasement also varies, as well as the quality of the fabric used. What you’ve described is not a waterproof encasement, but one that is water-resistant. Waterproof wouldn’t require the spill to be mopped up quickly.
Wool isn’t a “hindrance” to the latex , but it can add a slight firmness, which would be most evident in the layer directly against your skin and not as noticeable deeper down in the mattress. All of the layers will still work together, but your mass is spread out over a wider area deeper down in the mattress.
The questions you’re asking are getting back into the category again of me trying to predict how something might feel to you, which as I’ve discussed previously I can’t do. Unless all the layers, including the encasement, are the same, anything you change will alter the overall comfort of a mattress. But in this case you’re creating your own DIY product and you don’t have a frame of reference, so unless you were very experienced and skilled in mattress building and the materials used within such a mattress (which would be an incredibly small percentage of the population), I would not try to predict too much from technical details how a mattress will feel but instead rely upon the guidance of experienced and knowledgeable retailers or manufacturers, or copy a known specification that you have already tried.
Phoenix
Here is a pic of the 2 sided mattress encasement that foam order would make for me (except in twin xl shape.) The pic I sent you before was just a similar look as I couldn’t find their actual pic they’d sent me. So this is it
https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/36408/sailboat-mattress.jpg($130+shipping.)
At this point a diy project is not my first choice, think of it like checking an algebra problem, going backwards to check my work. The answer I have come up with would be to get the sewn mattress from mattresses.net: 2 sided 6" blended talalay core (36 ild) with 1.5" wool, stretch knit cover; and put a 24 ild topper over that which is what the seller of the mattress suggested paired with the 36 ild mattress (though I think a 28 ild would do it 24 is what’s been recommended.) I’ve seen a cutout of the wool in a latex mattress and can see, especially in the sides, how it gives the mattress more structure, and like you mentioned the wool spreads the pressure out over the surface, that’s probably actually good so all my weight doesn’t go into one spot, kinda like bonnell coils compared to pocketed springs. I wish I could find a different seller for a 2 sided topper at the price point of ultimate sleep $80 shipped. Do you know of any sellers that might offer a 2 sided topper cover; also do you know sellers of radium 6" cores, as well as toppers, 2,3, 4" etc?
My only alternative interest in a diy at this stage is that their wouldn’t be that wool blocking the 2 layers of latex from working together, etc. You’ve mentioned Talalay Global uses a filler in their blended talalay, do you know any more details on that? Is it common for blended talalay in general to undergo a significant softening at around the 6 month mark, because reading reviews online I’ve come across this a lot and it’s been associated with TG, but that could just be because so many sellers use them here in the USA. Though I haven’t read any complaints about Radium’s blended talalay.
Hi Alpharalpha,
Regarding covers, you already have a link to my listing of some of the better component suppliers of which I am aware vendors in the component post here. You’d have to phone the cover suppliers to see what they offer, as they often will offer items not shown on their web sites.
It’s common for latex manufacturers to use some filler in their product at a level that doesn’t diminish product performance but does lower production costs. There are many types of fillers used industry-wide. I believe feldspar was used years ago in some of the TG blended latex, but I’m not sure now.
It’s common for all foams, even latex, to soften with use over time. I’m not aware of any current “issues” with the latex from Talalay Global or Radium, and I would consider the product from both manufacturers to be a high quality and durable material.
Phoenix
What is the deal with hr foams at a 2.0 lb density? I’ve read 2.5 lb is the minimum; is it possible to make a true hr foam at 2.0 lb? I wouldn’t buy it but I see it from multiple sellers and am just wondering?
Hi alpharaplha,
High resiliency polyfoam would be at least 2.5 lb in density with a compression modulus of at least 2.4. See page 4 of this article describing it from the Polyurethane Foam Association.
Phoenix
I’ve seen several sellers–even a manufacturer–selling what they’re calling a hr foam even though the density is only 2.0 lbs, do you know what they are selling, is it foam with the same cell structure as hr but with a lower density or an altogether different foam? I wouldn’t buy it, but am curious as to what it is?
Hi alpharalpha,
Technically, high resilience foam is defined as 2.5 lb in density, at least 60% ball rebound, and a support factor of at least 2.4. You can see the definition in Section IV, number 13, of the IABFLO Classification of Filling Materials. With that being said, I’ve seen manufacturers use the term for slightly lower densities, just as is sometimes seen with “High Density” polyfoam. I think any specific questions about the actual density, ball rebound, support factor, or other properties would best be addressed to the particular foam pourer or seller you were considering.
Phoenix
I understand now. Thanks.
Hi alpharalpha,
You’re welcome!
Phoenix
Well, I went to our local Bed Pros just to lay on a 6" talalay core mattress, they didn’t have that one anymore in stock the next up was the Nature which is probably the feel I’d have got with my 6" 36 ild mattress and a 24 ild topper, But, then I laid on the Beautiful just to check out the electric adjustable frame (very nice) and I thought such a plush mattress would be too soft but after going home and thinking about it I really liked it, especially since I sleep on my side and have a problem with an old dislocated shoulder injury. Do you know what the ild set up is on the Pure Talalay Bliss Beautiful:
3″ ActiveFusion™ Talalay – Comfort
3″ Talalay – Pressure Relieving
6″ Talalay – Support
Of course the saleman says it will be supportive enough but will the hips tend to sink in such a plush bed, and also I have some knee problems, if the bed sinks in at the hips it pushes my knees at an angle and messes them up. I was surprised how much more I liked the plusher Beautiful compared to the Nature (if you know the ild setup on it too that’d be helpful to get an idea of what I’m feeling.)
2″ ActiveFusion™ Talalay – Comfort
2″ Talalay – Pressure Relieving
6" Talalay – Support
Thanks.
Hi alpharalpha,
Here you go – these are the last ILD specifications I have on these Pure Talalay Bliss Mattresses:
Beautiful
3″ ActiveFusion™ Talalay – Comfort 15 ILD
3″ Talalay – Pressure Relieving 24 ILD
6″ Talalay – Support 36 ILD
Nature
2″ ActiveFusion™ Talalay – Comfort 21 ILD
2″ Talalay – Pressure Relieving 28 ILD
6″ Talalay – Support 36 ILD
Phoenix
That’s very helpful. It looks like from their website they might’ve changed the Nature to:
2″ ActiveFusion™ Talalay – Comfort
2″ Talalay – Pressure Relieving
6" Talalay – Support
But I’m sure the ILDs are the same.
Unfortunately they fuse the layers, but I really just wanted to get a basic feel for what I’d be buying online and I know there are differences but it gives me an general idea. I’ll be going back to spend more time checking out the Beautiful as I was pretty set on a firmer mattress for support but the plusher one is very appealing if it can give enough support.
Thanks.
Hi alpharaplha,
Actually, I mistyped the thicknesses of the Nature - I’ve made the correction in my original reply to you. Thanks! And yes, their layers are glued together.
Phoenix
I went back and laid on the Beautiful more, it is comfortable but I did notice that when on my side my head needed extra pillows to be level. I 'm thinking that since it’s so soft that my hips are sinking in (which is fine) but then it’s bulging up in my upper body, then lower where my head’s at. That didn’t happen with the Nature. I have been planning on buying Mattresses.net’s 6" core mattress and putting a 24 ild topper on it, both are 2 sided. I don’t suppose I could stack a 2nd 19 ild topper if later on I decided I needed that extra comfort layer? I would like to put it all inside a mattress encasement anyway, just wondering. And is there any comparison in feel between the Nature’s 2" 21 ild over 2" 28 ild and 3" of 24 ild? Going to be making a purchase in the next week or two. Thanks for all your help, it has been (and I guess still is) quite a learning curve.
Hi alpharalpha,
What you’re describing would something more akin to displacement, which doesn’t happen in this situation. The softer materials should allow all parts of your body to sink in more, and even with heavier parts sinking more deeply, your shoulder should sink in more as well, and as your spine had lateral flexion this should be accommodated. But if this is what you experienced, then you would certainly want to take that into consideration.
You certainly could do that.
Overall, the 3" will be slightly firmer that the top 2" 21 ILD, but have 1" less of comfort material, so it would be a more “differential” design than “progressive”.
Phoenix
I talked with Ken today at Arizona Mattress 
and now having more information he’s suggested going with 32 ild for the 6" core mattress instead of the 36, and a 19 ild 3" topper instead of the 24. This seems to make sense to me, what do you think?
Hi Alpharalpha,
I would trust the advice and plan that you and Ken came up with during your detailed conversation. As I wasn’t part of that conversation, I can’t comment to what you two discussed. You’ve expressed quite a few different thoughts about what you want these past many months, so any input I have wouldn’t necessarily be germane to both of your shared thoughts from today’s conversation.
Phoenix