I am looking for a normal (well, probably “low profile”) box spring foundation for my new mattress. I am concerned about the chemicals that are used in these combination wood and metal foundations and I have not found any other posts on this topic in my searching.
Is there really any difference between the foundations offered by Simmons and Serta? I think something like this Lifekind one is out of my price range. Does anyone know of something similar that is “reasonably” priced? Or is one of these store-brand box springs fine if I put it in an encasement before sleeping on it?
Backstory, if you’re interested:
I have spent about a month breaking in my Dreamfoam Ultimate Dreams 10" Latex Mattress at 32 ILD on a frame like the Genius Hi-Rise Frame that they recommend. I initially thought the “Cushion Firm” level was way too firm, so I added a 20 ILD 2" Pure Natural Latex topper from Sleep on Latex. I now realize that there is simply not enough support in between the frame and the mattress for me. I was having many nights where I would wake up with limbs that fell asleep and/or various minor muscle cramps.
I am now sleeping with the mattress and topper on the floor without the frame. This is not ideal for airflow purposes (or reaching my bedside table), obviously.
Assuming I chose a box spring: Could I put the mattress and a regular box spring on top of the Hi-Rise wire frame or should I just get a regular metal bed frame (with the middle support rail of course) for the foundation?
I’m not aware of any specific chemicals that would be used in most of the foundations used in the industry that most people would consider toxic or harmful although of course some people that are more sensitive to certain materials or have some type of health condition (such as multiple chemical sensitivity) may be more sensitive than others to some of the substances or materials that are used in some foundations or box springs such as some types of glue or any treatments that are used for the wood (although most of the chemical treatments used for wood would be for outdoor use) so this would depend on knowing the specifics of a particular foundation. Some people may also have some level of concern with offgassing issues that may be connected with the use of some types of engineered wood or plywood.
For those who have more stringent criteria for choosing a foundation that are different from the concerns or criteria of most other people then they may need to do much more detailed research and make choices based on much more specific information about any particular foundation that they may be considering which may be much more difficult to come by or find out. Once they had the more detailed specifics (if these were available) that they required that would allow them to to identify any particular materials or “chemicals” that they wished to avoid that they believed could cause them harm then they would be able to make a buying decision that they were comfortable with but this type of research can be very frustrating because you may not have access to all the information about any product that you may need to help you answer “how safe is safe enough for me?” to the degree of specificity that may be important to you.
Knowing this would depend on knowing the specifics of the materials and design of each foundation but in more “real life” terms if a mattress you choose needs a firm non flexing support surface and two foundations provide this equally and neither one has wide enough “gaps” in the support surface to allow the materials in the mattress to sag into the gaps over time and they both use similar materials and would maintain the firmness and evenness of the support surface over the same period of time then they would be equally suitable for a particular mattress. There is more about the different types of support systems that are generally suitable for different types of mattresses in the foundation post here.
As you can see in post #10 here … I would tend to agree with your concerns about the risk of having no airflow under a mattress but I’m not clear on why you stopped using the platform bedframe that you were using because I don’t know of any reason that would cause me any concern with toxicity and most of these types of support surfaces would be suitable for your mattress.
If you get a foundation (not a box spring which flexes and wouldn’t be suitable for your mattress) then a metal bedframe with good center support would be a suitable choice. I would tend to avoid using a foundation on top of one of the wire grid platform frames because they aren’t designed to be used with a foundation on top of them and the combination may not be stable, may shift or wobble, or make noise if they aren’t a perfect match at all the load bearing points between them and there aren’t any edge supports to keep the foundation from sliding. It may also be higher than you would prefer. I haven’t tried this and don’t know of any feedback from someone who has but if it provided a firm non flexing and stable support surface then from this perspective it would be OK but it’s not a combination I would choose.
Thanks for the response. I think I was being confusing in my own confusion.
I stopped using the Hi-Rise wire frame because it was just too hard without anything between it and the 10 inches of mattress (and 2 inches of topper). I think the cause of my poor circulation (limbs falling asleep) is from just not having enough of the right support underneath the mattress. Maybe I’m wrong about that, but it seems having a traditional box spring and floor rail frame could have been better for me.
When you a say ‘a box spring that flexes wouldn’t be suitable’ for the Dreamfoam Ultimate Dreams Latex mattress, I am assuming you mean that I should not even consider buying one of these Simmons or Serta foundations I linked to above? Do you mind following up on why?
After checking the Brookyln Bedding website I see that they do not list a box spring as an recommended option either and I don’t understand why that is.
If I were to get one of the Simple Life Foundations they recommend, it looks as if it will feel the same as the Hi-Rise Frame I was already using.
SO, I guess my new question is how I can expect to not ‘feel the foundation’ under the mattress AND topper? I am 6’2" and only 175 pounds, so it’s not as if I am sinking into it and bending the wires…
The best support system for a foam mattress is firm and non flexing and as close to the firmness of a floor as possible. In most cases if a foundation has an effect on the feel of the mattress then it would most likely not be as rigid or supportive as it should be. If your mattress is too firm then the best approach is generally to fine tune the mattress not the support system underneath it (unless the support system isn’t suitable for your mattress).
A box spring that flexes (vs a foundation that doesn’t) isn’t generally the best choice for a foam mattress.
A box spring is different from a foundation. A box spring has some “spring” in it and a foundation doesn’t. Any foundation that has no spring in it and provides even non flexing support under your mattress would be fine. Both of the Simmons or Serta foundations you mentioned would be fine since neither one of them are “box springs” (although foundations are often called box springs which can be confusing).
Yes … both of these would also be suitable for your mattress.
Most people would only feel the mattress and topper and wouldn’t feel any of the foundations you are mentioning under your mattress and topper because they would feel very similar to the floor since none of them have any significant flex. If for some reason you do feel the foundation through your mattress and topper because your mattress is sinking into the gaps enough to make a difference for you then it may be worth using a bed rug or a firm piece of polyfoam on top of it (see post #10 here).
Well, perhaps the particular Hi-Rise frame I have is the problem.
I didn’t think the mattress sagged, but it does sit down into the wires from the weight put on it (when lifting up the mattress after laying on it for awhile, I could feel it kind of make a suction-like movement off the wires). Though, I would think this would happen with anyone laying on a mattress directly on top of it. I wonder why this would this be a recommended foundation, if that is the case.
Maybe I am just overly sensitive. I am going to switch to the Simmons low-profile foundation and a 7 leg floor rail frame for the Dreamfoam mattress and hope that this makes it better (I had previously tried a platform bed with 3 inch slats and that too was too hard for me). Worst case: I will be ready to order a new mattress eventually that fits with this more traditional setup.
I never thought I would miss my 10 year old, lumpy Serta I-guess-no-longer-so-Luxury-Firm pillowtop.
Here’s to only sleeping with the mattress on the floor for another week…
For most mattress that have a polyfoam base layer they would be fine and work well but the firmness of the support also depends on the number of longitudinal wires they have and the type of foam in the base of the mattress. You can see my thoughts about the wire grid type foundations in the link about them in my last reply but the biggest reason that most people would choose them is either a lower cost or because they want the storage space under their bed.
You can see the insides of the triton foundation here and it also has a “wire grid” surface but there is a little more wire in the support surface. While it still wouldn’t be as supportive as a wood slat foundation where closer to 50% of the support surface is solid … for most mattresses that have a polyfoam base layer they would be fine as well.
A foundation really isn’t an ideal way to adjust the “feel” of your mattress and is meant to provide a firm non flexing support surface for your mattress so that the mattress has the support system that best allows it to do the job it was designed for.
My experience is that box springs and foundations have fire barriers or fire retardants (FR) just like mattress do. They’re sewn into or are part of the cloth piece on the foundation or box spring. Most companies use standard FRs that contain PBDEs or Boric Acid and that’s what I stay away from with my multiple chemical sensitivity. I also would prefer to not have children exposed to them but that’s my personal opinion. They’ve been being used for some years now by all of us. I have read that PBDE usage in mattresses have been outlawed recently but I’m not sure about this. I do know the last cheap mattress I bought came with a box spring that smelled worse than the mattress.
There are however “neutral” fire retardants. These supposedly only become toxic when a flame hits them. Neutral FRs can be used in mattresses, box springs and foundations.
Spindle mattress in MA has a wood foundation with a neutral FR you can put together yourself (they UPS it) You need two people to put it together. I had no reaction to it and it smelled great.
My traditional box spring came from a good local mattress manufacturer and also has a neutral FR called visil. I also smell no chemical odor from this.
Foundations need to pass the fire regulations just like mattresses do so you are correct about this but most mattresses and foundations use inherent fire barriers (this may be what you are calling “neutral”) which are inherently fire retardant and don’t add chemicals to the mattress materials or the foundation … unlike furniture which uses more fire retardant chemicals added to their foam. There is more about “safe” fire retardants in this article and in post #2 here.
[quote]Most companies use standard FRs that contain PBDEs or Boric Acid and that’s what I stay away from with my multiple chemical sensitivity.
I have read that PBDE usage in mattresses have been outlawed recently but I’m not sure about this. I do know the last cheap mattress I bought came with a box spring that smelled worse than the mattress.[/quote]
While Boric acid is still used (although it’s safer than some people believe it is) … the use of PBDE’s in mattresses ended about a decade ago (see my reply to you here) and is no longer a concern with new mattresses or foundations. The smell of a mattress or foundation also isn’t an indication of its toxicity or safety. Organic latex or even other types of latex have a smell that is offensive to some people or can even cause some people to react to it when it is new but it’s certainly safe and some VOC’s that aren’t safe have no smell at all.
This is an example of a rayon/silica inherent fire barrier and similar types of inherent fire barriers are common in the industry.