Haynes Restonic Utopia Talalay Latex - anyone have any experience with this mattress?

Hi - just wondering if anyone has any information on or experience with one of my finalists, Restonic Utopia mattress, which just started being sold at Haynes Furniture. It is supposed to be 100% Talalay Latex other than the top layer that is wool and silk maybe (it had a fabric top layer in any case.) The price point (around 1500 for the medium firmness one) makes me want to seek out more information. I’m waiting on a rep from the distributor to call me and will follow up if I get more info. Thanks!!

Edit with correct specs:

Restonic Utopia Destiny:
about 13" height
6" precompressed soy based poly foam core - 27 IFD, 1.8 lb density
2.15" Natural Vita Talalay - 24 IFD
2.15" Natural Vita Talalay - 15 IFD
1.5" High Density Super-soft foam
1" gel-infused quilting
.5" silk and wool
Thin layer of fire blocker

Hi AT,

I didn’t see a Restonic Utopia mattress on their site but if you can find out the information listed here and post it on the forum I’d be happy to make some comments about the quality and durability of the materials inside it and the mattress as a whole.

You can also check the law tag on the mattress to confirm that the only foam it contains is latex (I would suspect that it’s not “all latex”.

Phoenix

I tried this mattress yesterday, and found out some more information on it. It has 3" polyfoam at the base, then about 12" organic Talalay latex with horizontal holes for temperature control. It then has a quilted wool and silk top layer with fire retardant material woven in. The sales person, who was very knowledgeable, said that Restonic can offer Talalay at a lower price (around $1500 for a queen mattress) b/c they do not advertise, and use that money to keep prices low. This is the most comfortable bed I’ve ever been on. However, this makes me want to cry b/c I need a bed so badly, it got hot, especially in my lower back. I don’t understand why, since I heard latex is cooling and it has the holes and mesh side panels which are supposed to keep it cool. I even put my hand on it after I’d been laying down and I could noticeably feel how much hotter it was where I’d been laying. Any thoughts on this, possible modifications? I’d have bought it otherwise, because their Talalay had a bouncy spring feel to it I really liked and it was just so incredibly comfortable otherwise.

Edit with correct specs:
Restonic Utopia Destiny:
about 13" height
6" precompressed soy based poly foam core - 27 IFD, 1.8 lb density
2.15" Natural Vita Talalay - 24 IFD
2.15" Natural Vita Talalay - 15 IFD
1.5" High Density Super-soft foam
1" gel-infused quilting
.5" silk and wool
Thin layer of fire blocker

Hi AT,

I would want to know the specifics of every layer in the mattress including the thickness of every layer (listed from top to bottom) not just more the more general information they provided you. The thickness is important so that you can confirm that the thickness of all the layers adds up to the thickness of the mattress. Some of the information they provided was also not completely accurate. There is no such thing as “organic” Talalay (there is only blended Talalay and 100% natural Talalay) and all latex that is made in a mold has pincores (holes) in the latex which are part of the mold they are poured in. If the 3" polyfoam layer is about 1.5 lb density or better then it wouldn’t be a weak link in the bottom of a mattress but many latex mattresses use thicker layers of polyfoam on top of the mattress as well and this could affect temperature regulation as well as the durability of the mattress.

There are also many manufacturers that don’t spend as much on advertising as the major brands and none of the major brands have an all latex mattress anyway at the moment. Some of the smaller manufacturers do even less advertising than Restonic so their comment here is mostly about “marketing”.

If the total height of your mattress is 15" then I would strongly suspect that there is less than 12" of latex in the mattress. The percentages of polyfoam and latex listed on the law tag may be a “clue” although it only shows the percentage of each material based on weight and doesn’t list the thickness of the layers, the type or blend of the latex, or the order of the layers.

While it’s not possible to quantify the sleeping temperature of a mattress relative to a particular person or to always identify exactly why they may sleep hot on a specific mattress because of all the variables involved … there is more about tracking down the reasons for any temperature regulation issues in a mattress in post #2 here. The first step would be to confirm the specifics of the materials inside your mattress which would make it easier to make some comments about the possible reasons.

Wool quilting is normally a very temperature regulating material and wool quilting can also be used to pass the fire regulations as well without needing a separate fire barrier but if your mattress uses a separate fire barrier then it’s likely that the amount of wool or silk in the quilting or the cover fabric is quite low so it may not be having much effect on temperature regulation.

I would be somewhat cautious here and make sure that you know the specifics of every layer in the mattress you are considering because I suspect that the information that you have been given may not be completely accurate.

Phoenix

I may try calling Restonic, I’m still waiting for a possible call from their Rep. The salesman who as I said, was very knowledgeable and not dismissive of my inquiries the way some salesmen I’ve encountered have been, said there were 2 layers: a foundation of 3" polyfoam and natural (not organic, my bad) Talalay, with the wool, silk, and fire retardant quilting cover. He said the Talalay was as close to 100% as you can get without the other 1-3% of stuff that has to be added in as part of the manufacture process. The Talalay was directly below the quilting. He said there was 3" polyfoam and 12" latex, and the mattress is around 15" high, so it added up. It’s possible he was directly or inadvertently lying, but that is what he said. I was looking for the tag and couldn’t find it, but I don’t know if I’ll bother looking into it too much more since it was hot for whatever reason.

Hi AT,

Your salesman is probably genuinely trying to provide you with the information that he believes is correct but I suspect that the source of his information may be incorrect. “Natural” Talalay generally refers to blended Talalay which would be a blend of about 30% natural rubber and 70% synthetic rubber (although there would also be other substances used to manufacture the latex such as curing agents, foaming agents, and possibly fillers as well … see the first part of post #2 here). There is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here.

There are certainly some people that can sleep warmer if they are sleeping directly on thicker layers of softer foam materials (even latex in some cases) without a more temperature regulating quilted cover on top of it (such as wool). There are some comments in post #6 here about the pros and cons of thinner more stretchy covers vs wool quilted covers.

I really would make sure you know the specifics of every layer in your mattress and I would keep in mind that latex cores are only poured in 6" thicknesses or less so there would be several foam layers in your mattress (either latex or polyfoam).

The law tag would be on one end of the mattress and your salesperson can show you where it is (it’s not legal to sell a mattress without it). Many stores put the end of a mattress that has the law tag against a wall so that their customers can’t read it.

Phoenix

I only sleep hot occasionally. It’s not generally a problem, and none of the other mattresses I’ve been trying have had this issue. But it’s still something I watch for, because I don’t want it to become a problem with a new mattress. Are you saying if it was an inferior blend of latex, then it’s more likely to sleep hot? I also thought it was strange that the holes are supposed to lay horizontal. Is that unusual?

Hi AT,

No … it would have nothing to do with “inferior” latex since all the latex you are likely to encounter would be a high quality and durable material. As you can read in the post I linked … if anything blended Talalay would be more durable than 100% natural Talalay latex in lower ILD ranges.

If your latex was poured in a mold then the holes would be perpendicular to the layer although they may not go all the way through the layer (see post #2 here).

There are some types of continuous pour Dunlop latex that are poured in thinner layers that don’t have any pincores in the latex (they are poured in thin enough layers that they don’t need pincores for curing the latex) or where the pincores are “punched” into the latex after they are poured.

I would need to know the specifics of all the layers and components in your mattress to be able to speculate more about why it seemed to be sleeping warmer for you.

Phoenix

We went to Haynes yesterday and laid on their Utopia Nirvana Plush mattress. We also were not certain of the complete make up the mattress so I just called them back to ask. The salesman said it is completely talalay - the core and the other layers. I asked about the silk and wool topper and was told the fabric is a blend of silk and wool and that talalay is inside of it to make it feel so soft. We really loved the mattress but just like everyone else on here … we are hesitant to make the leap and purchase it. I will be interested in knowing what the manufacturer tells you. Thanks!

Hi byrum4863,

AT has already confirmed that the bottom layer is 3" of polyfoam (although they didn’t provide the density) but I also wouldn’t be very confident that the information you are being provided is accurate even if you exclude the bottom layer of polyfoam.

As I mentioned to AT I would check the law tag to find out the percentages of polyfoam (by weight) which would at least provide a “clue” to the amount of polyfoam and latex in the mattress but I would want to know the specifics of every layer in the mattress because I don’t think it’s very likely that it contains 12" of Talalay latex (either blended or 100% natural).

Phoenix

Oh, thanks! I missed the 3" of polyfoam info on her post. We will find that law tag and see what it says. Thanks so much.

I have the specs for these beds:

Restonic Utopia Destiny:
about 11" height
6" precompressed soy based poly foam core - 27 IFD, 1.8 lb density
2.15" Natural Vita Talalay - 24 IFD
2.15" Natural Vita Talalay - 15 IFD
thin gel foam layer in quilting (didn’t get exact details but Rep said it was far less than 1/2 an inch)
Wool and Silk Quilting, with wood pulp for fire retardancy

Restonic Utopia Nirvana:
about 11" height
6" Natural Vita Talalay Core - 36 IFD
2.15" Natural Vita Talalay - 24 IFD
2.15" Natural Vita Talalay - 15 IFD
thin gel foam layer in quilting (didn’t get exact details but Rep said it was far less than 1/2 an inch)
Wool and Silk Quilting, with wood pulp for fire retardancy

The Destiny is the Medium Firm bed and the Nirvana is the Soft bed. There is another Firm bed, I didn’t get specs on as I wasn’t interested. I prefer the Medium Firm bed for PPP.

Are there any weak links here?

Edit with correct specs:

Restonic Utopia Destiny:
about 13" height
6" precompressed soy based poly foam core - 27 IFD, 1.8 lb density
2.15" Natural Vita Talalay - 24 IFD
2.15" Natural Vita Talalay - 15 IFD
1.5" High Density Super-soft foam
1" gel-infused quilting
.5" silk and wool
Thin layer of fire blocker

Hi AT,

Thanks for finding out and listing the specs of the mattresses you are considering.

Both of these mattresses use good quality materials that meet the quality/durability guidelines here and there are there are no lower quality materials or weak links that would affect the durability or useful life of the mattress in either of them (unless you are in a much higher weight range than average in which case the latex support core in the Nirvana could make a bigger difference compared to the 1.8 lb polyfoam in the Utopia in terms of durability) .

They both appear to be similar in terms of firmness based on the top latex comfort layers and if anything the ILD specs seem to indicate that the latex core in the Nirvana may be firmer than the polyfoam support core in the Utopia but the latex in the support core of the Nirvana would be more “point elastic” and contouring than the polyfoam support core in the Nirvana so it can “feel” softer than polyfoam because of the properties of the latex even though it actually isn’t when it’s physically tested for firmness. There is more about the pros and cons of a latex hybrid vs an all latex mattress in post #2 here.

If you are confident that either or both of these mattresses are a good match for you in terms of PPP and they also compare well to any other finalists you are looking at based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are important to you then they would certainly be well worth considering as a purchase.

ADDED: see my comments in post #24 here about the updated and edited specs and I would consider the 2.5" of polyfoam in the top layers to be a weak link in terms of the durability and useful life of the mattress.

If you are also considering the Nirvana mattress then given the misinformation you were originally provided I would also make sure that the mattress is really 11" thick to make sure that there are no missing layers of lower quality materials in the upper layers of this mattress either that would affect the durability and useful life of the mattress.

Phoenix

Thanks so much Phoenix. That’s very interesting about the firmness vs. point elasticity! Theoretically, I would prefer to go all Latex, even with the higher price point for Nirvana, but it just doesn’t do well for me on Posture and Alignment. The Destiny is my only Finalist right now, and it’s a really nice feeling bed. I’ve tried and not been a good PPP fit on Saavy Rest, Pure Latex Bliss, and Dunlop Latex beds elsewhere in central Virginia, I may have at this point tried all the local latex and latex hybrids, I’d have to recheck the thread about central Virginia stores. Do you know of any stores in Virginia that do a coil latex hybrid? That’s the one thing I’m curious about but haven’t had an opportunity to try.

Also, I was wondering if you could explain the significance (if any) of a precompressed core (or if you’ve previously written about it, direct me to that thread)?

Also, by the way, the Rep told me the holes are vertical in these beds, not horizontal. Correcting the above information.

Hi AT,

I would always consider PPP and how well you are likely to sleep on a mattress as the most important priority since if a mattress isn’t a good match for you in terms of PPP it would have little value to you regardless of the price or the quality and durability of the materials.

I looked through your previous posts and I didn’t see the city or zip code where you live but post #2 here includes several links to some of the forum lists in Virginia (I’m guessing that you may be working through the Richmond list?).

I don’t keep a record of the individual mattresses that the retailers and manufacturers in the hundreds of forum lists throughout the forum carry on their floor (it would be a bigger job than anyone could keep up with in a constantly changing market) but checking their websites and making some preliminary phone calls to the retailers/manufacturers that are on the lists that are in reasonable driving distance is always a good idea before you visit any store anyway. This will tell you which of them carry mattresses that would meet your specific criteria, are transparent about the quality and durability of the materials in their mattresses (see this article), and that carry the type of mattresses that you are interested in testing in the budget range you are comfortable with. Once you have checked their websites and/or talked with the ones that interest you then you will be in a much better position to decide on the ones that you are most interested in visiting based on the results of your preliminary research and conversations.

There are also some sources for innerspring/latex hybrids in post #2 here and the post it links to. Some of them have a dealer locator on their site or you could also call to see if any of them have any dealers in your area that would give you a chance to test their mattresses as well.

Precompressing a polyfoam layer before it’s used can help to open up some of the cell membranes in the foam which can help remove any “false firmness” from the layer and shorten the break in period.

I’m glad to see that they corrected themselves although it wouldn’t just be “these beds” because any latex that is made with pincores in a mold or on a belt would have vertical pincore holes.

Phoenix

Hi - here with an update and a question.

I got this mattress and it is actually 13". The top 3 inches are quilting with wool and silk, and some gel foam in quilting (rep had said less than a 1/2 inch previously.) I’m still not 100% on that, and was a bit annoyed that I didn’t bring a ruler to the store and push for more information when the initial specs of the layers did not add up to the total.

However, I’m very pleased with this mattresses performance for 3 P’s. It has a wonderfully buoyant feel, and balances my body almost like I’m floating in water. I flat out love the mattress.

One fine tuning issue I’m still struggling with is heat retention. I just don’t like the feeling of built-up warmth, which I especially feel under my back, as a back sleeper. After a month I’m still trying to figure out a way to troubleshoot this one issue for this otherwise ideal mattress (in other words, my body has not adjusted to it).

I have tried two versions of Outlast mattress pads with Gold and Gold Plus ratings, a Cirriform and Nacreous. They did not work, and the padding in them seemed to counteract the cooling benefits provided by the quilting shape to the top layer in the bed.

I tried a cooling gel foam mattress pad, convoluted 1.5 inches. It did not work, and the softness of it completely changed the performance of the bed. I cradled in it and woke up with neck pain.

I am sleeping with a Sleep Tite mattress protector now. I’m wondering if there is a mattress protector out there that is more breathable? It does seem slightly cooler without the protector… But I’m hesitant to sleep with no protection whatsoever.

I’m also considering buying a Celsion 1 inch latex topper (or another thickness if recommended). It’s offered in three firmness versions, 15, 21, and 27 ILD. Do you think that would help with coolness? Do you think I could get it in a firmness that complemented the bed, and didn’t cause me to “crater”, like with the gel foam topper? If my bed is a “medium” firmness, which firmness would you recommend, if so?

Thanks for any help and advice.

Hi AT,

While I don’t know for certain … if the quilting is 3" thick then it’s more likely that there would be more than 1/2" of foam in the quilting (possibly closer to 2").

While it’s not always possible to to track down temperature regulation issues for any particular person on a specific mattress because there are so many variables involved (including your room temperature and humidity, your sheets and bedding and bedclothes, your mattress protector or any mattress pads you are using, and where you are in the “oven to iceberg” range) and some people can sleep warmer on mattresses that most people are generally fine with … there is more about tracking down a potential cause or causes for temperature regulation issues (at least to the degree possible for a specific mattress) in post #2 here and the posts it links to that may be helpful.

The thin “membrane” type of protector you are using could certainly be contributing to the temperature issues you are having because they can restrict airflow to some degree and some people sleep warmer on them. There is more about the pros and cons of different types of mattress protectors in post #89 here.

A topper can be a good solution for a mattress that is too firm and that just needs some additional softness and pressure relief (as long as it doesn’t have any soft spots or sagging in the sleeping surface) but I would be cautious about using a topper to try and “fix” temperature regulation issues because if a mattress is already a good match for you in terms of PPP then a topper can add too much additional softness and you could end up exchanging a temperature regulation issue for a back ache that is the result of sleeping on a mattress that is too soft. If some of the suggestions in the previous link (such as choosing a different mattress protector or different sheets etc) aren’t enough to solve any temperature regulation issues you are experiencing then I would consider a thinner mattress pad or topper made from natural fibers such as wool that can help maintain a more neutral sleeping temperature and have the least possible effect on the overall comfort and support of the mattress.

Phoenix

Thanks for your advice.

I think I’ll just try it with protector off for now, and see if it improves.

Do you have any recommendations for cooling pillow and sheets? Can they help?

For the record, I don’t recommend Outlast mattress pad toppers. They seem to just gather and hold heat. Maybe they work better for someone that’s sweating a lot, like a more extreme situation.