Help-current bed not working out

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

:huh: When I purchased this bed (I’ve had it set up since Friday 03/29/13) from APMC, I told Ken what I wanted to duplicate: The Pure Latex Bliss-Beautiful.
He sent me a solid medium core (It took 5.5 weeks, after I nagged APMC I didn’t have a bed-I was promised 3.5 weeks) which I am confused if it’s 32IDL or 36IDL and a 3" 19IDL topper. The bed feels hard to us not like the Beautiful which is soft, springy and sinks slightly. My hubby likes the Beautiful because it relieves his pain.

Does any know with my current configuration how I can achieve the bouncyness and slightly sinking feeling I get from the Beautiful?

I am considering:

Latexco Naturalux 3" natural duvet topper -25 ILD-I will take the 19 ILD topper out of cover replace it with this and place the 19 on top. I think this is dunlop, not talalay (or)

19 ILD 3" all natural talalay, place this on top of current configuration

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!

2

can you describe exactly how your bed feels now ?

i just compared PLB “nature” and PLB “world’s best bed” today and they both feel soft on the surface, but “nature” doesn’t cradle as well as “world’s best bed”. so in “nature” it sort of feels like you can feel the firm base layer through the soft top layers.

so my question for you is - your 19 ILD layer - does it feel as soft to the touch as PLB beds ? is your problem that you can feel the harder base layer through the soft top layer - or is your problem that the top layer doesn’t feel soft enough - or is it both ?

finally, how much did you spend on the configuration you currently have ? i’m sort of deciding between Pure Latex Bliss or do-it-yourself route ?

3

Hi g1881c,

It’s still very early and the bed and you haven’t really begun to go through the initial break in and adjustment period yet so it really isn’t possible to say how close you came but I would also keep in mind that any mattress that doesn’t use the exact same materials and layering wouldn’t “duplicate” another one anyway.

The first step would always be to talk with the manufacturer themselves who are more familiar with their mattresses than anyone else (and Ken is also familiar with the Beautiful). The mattress you have would be close for many people because they both have a top 3" layer which is similar (and the top layer contributes the most to the “feel” of a mattress) but comfort is so subjective with different body types, sleeping styles, and perceptions that “very close” for one person may be “not very close” for another.

Some of the other things that I would consider are listed in post #2 here.

You can see the layering of the new PLB Beautiful here.

This again would be based on your personal perceptions. You may be lighter than most or have different perceptions from the “average” but for most people the Beautiful would be more than a “slightly sinking in” feeling because it is close to the softest mattress in the PLB line.

If two of the layers you have are similar to two of the layers in the Beautiful (the 6" of 36 ILD and 3" of 21 ILD), then adding the missing layer of 3" of 24 ILD as your comfort layer and using your 19 ILD on top would be as close as you could come (assuming the base layer is also the same) although there would still be some differences because the cover and quilting is different, the comfort layer has a slight difference in ILD, and a topper will have a slightly softer feel than the same layer inside the mattress. The closer the layers “match” in both type, ILD, and thickness the better your odds that the “feel” will be similar to you. The Naturalux is Dunlop so it will feel firmer and not as “lively” as Talalay although once again … some people may feel it is very close and others not so much.

The most important things you can do though would be to first talk with them in person and I also wouldn’t consider any type of change until you have been sleeping on a new mattress for a minimum of 2 weeks … and preferably longer … and then use your experience on the mattress after it has broken in a bit and you have gone through your initial adjustments to a new sleeping surface to decide on what the next step may be.

Phoenix

4

Thank you for the response, I have decided on a blended talalay Brooklyn Bedding topper in 19.
I spoke with APMC, only to be informed that many of his customers feel our current layering is too soft. My husband and I must be hard to please, obviously difficult customers because we like something custom for our needs. In a few weeks I add my review of the product and company.

To the other member
can you describe exactly how your bed feels now ?

Too hard, were still feeling pressure points while on my side.

i just compared PLB “nature” and PLB “world’s best bed” today and they both feel soft on the surface, but “nature” doesn’t cradle as well as “world’s best bed”. so in “nature” it sort of feels like you can feel the firm base layer through the soft top layers.

This is exactly how our bed feels, imo, i dont this there are enough layers.

so my question for you is - your 19 ILD layer - does it feel as soft to the touch as PLB beds ? is your problem that you can feel the harder base layer through the soft top layer - or is your problem that the top layer doesn’t feel soft enough - or is it both ?

Both

finally, how much did you spend on the configuration you currently have ?

About 1400, i think its was too expensive for what we recieved, especially considering i had to spend another 329 for another layer, we boughtt APMC foundation, not worth the additional 250 some odd dollars. All together spent almost 1800 at APMC, then 329 at Brooklyn Bedding.

5

Hi MJ73,

Not only would many of his customers feel that way … so would many mattress manufacturers who would tend to be quite cautious with latex layers that thick and soft. Most manufacturers are well aware that a large number of consumers tend to choose mattresses that are too soft for their long term needs and preferences but don’t realize they are doing so. You may or may not be hard to please or “difficult” and I don’t think that a “custom” layering is the issue. Things like this tend to be more about a manufacturer trying their best to use their experience to your benefit.

I curious to know why you would believe this (too expensive for what you received) when 9" of talalay in queen size with a wool quilted cover for $1400 is among the lowest prices I know. The slatted wood KD foundation is also one of the lower priced versions that is actually suitable for a latex mattress (gaps less than 3" apart). What is it about the “value” of your purchase that has changed from the time you purchased it until now? Are your comments because when you are unhappy with one thing (you weren’t successful in duplicating the subjective feel of a mattress which is part of the risk of ordering any mattress that you haven’t tested in person) you become unhappy with everything else as well or is there another basis for your comments.

It seems odd to me that you made an online purchase from a company that has among the lowest prices and great value knowing (hopefully) the risk involved in doing so. Then when you don’t like the outcome but you still have good options … instead of being responsible for your choices you criticize the value of company that provided you with what you wanted in the first place

Sometimes consumers don’t like being told something truthful that they don’t want to hear and then turn around and criticize the people with the courage and integrity to do so.

Does this really make sense?

Phoenix

6

I typed a great rebutt, where did it go, do you get deleted for certain reasons here?

7

Phoenix,

This issue with APMC and I have nothing to do with him providing info I do want to hear, nor have I, nor do I now criticize APMC for my choices, instead your reply is without all the info needed to understand what happened.
I ordered and paid, expressed the order verbally three times, followed up with an email, asked for rush service due to our situation, paid for that service. Took 5.5 weeks, got the bed core was split, I didnt have a bed, needed a bed. Sent it back on my dime, new core hipped my xme again, not my mess up, but my dime non the less. When I called to discussed this errr with him, this is where he rubbed me the wrong way,he was loud, rude, non appologetic, blamed me, then Greg. It didnt matter how it happened it did, I told him i refused to argue about it and lets move on. Since I opened none of the boxes at this time, i immediatly called to ensure our order was correct since we had 4 boxes delivered instead of 3 which we discussed. We did not get to see the slats for the foundation were cracked, no bolts or nuts to assemble it, no wool cover, a bamboo cover, that the zipper is broken on, brown hairs on it, and what appears to be a note written on it in sharpie QN RTN, the foundation cover would be nice if it would be a full cover, not half with the entire bottom missing it doesn’t even cover the sides of said foundation. Did I communicate this stuff with Ken, nope, I xidnt appreciate how he responded with the first error, and I dont have an endless supply of shippping money.
As far as his reccomenation, I take full responsibility for my choices, if the comfort layers were wrong in the near future I would again pay for that myself and not blame him, or Greg like he did to me. After all the crap, i contacted him to discuss ordering another topper, but when I’m made to feel as if im bothering you i take my business elsewhere.
if you felt i was being facetious with my comments, thats not the case, we are picky, we are difficult. That is the price of doing CUSTOM work. I never asked for anything cheap, nor a handout from him. He sets his pricepoints, if he feels he can talk to people like he does just because he is informed and offers low prices and you get whatcha get, i elect to shop elsewhere then.
I went to him based on MU member experiences, not price, i want what I want. Do i appreciate his reccomendations, yes, but currently the bed feeld like the floor and we only want comfort, do I think his setup and latex product is inferior, no, im sure it will perform well when we get our configuration perfect.
As far as everything else I stated, i was responding to another member question based on MY experiences with the product.

Thanks for your deep concern Phoenix, i unnderstand your need to point out issues when you believe members are being to critical of participating retailers, just not the case here. The bottom line is listen to orders, instead of barking at someone in your shop, read your emails, have a little humility when error is made and most of all dont blame your staff or the customers. If i pay for rush service and you say you can do it, dont over promise. If i ran my business like this, i would be unemployed.

8

Hi MJ73,

Nope … nothing was deleted … but it’s always easy to jump to conclusions :slight_smile:

My comments were about two specific comments you made and their basis. None of the rest of your post is being challenged.

It’s so easy to paint with a broad brush so that everything becomes an issue when someone is not happy rather than taking the time to post a little more dispassionately and identify clearly what is really at issue.

I have no issues with legitimate complaints that are fairly expressed … but I will certainly challenge statements that seem to be “lumped in” with the general mood or spirit of complaint or criticism when they aren’t.

My reply was specifically meant to reply to two things that you said …

This comment contains an assumption and some sarcasm that what you were told is because you are somehow a “difficult” or “hard to please” customer or because you like something custom when the real reason you were told what you were told is most likely because your choices are risky. Anyone looking for this type of layering would hopefully and probably be told the same thing.

Your comment about being too expensive was rather strange where the same components would probably cost more somewhere else and was probably among the reasons you ordered from them in the first place.

In addition this is also worth commenting on.

All their bed cores are generally split. This is how they can be shipped UPS instead of truck freight. Normally receiving a split core wouldn’t be a “mistake”.

The rest of your post is certainly fair comment and valid … even though it’s one of those “he said she said” types of arguments where both sides would likely not agree with what actually happened or what the other one said or did. If Ken sees this it would be great if he would comment (although he doesn’t usually monitor the forum that I know of although sometimes he does) so that the other side of the story can be presented as well.

Either way … you have the chance to present your side of the story as fairly as you can but where I have issues is when people cross the line into comments that are simply meant to find fault and criticize every detail of a process just to make a point. This site and forum has a different role than other sites on the internet and doesn’t assume that consumers are “right” simply because they are customers. As a matter of fact … in my experience … consumers are more often wrong or at least unreasonable more often than they are right (usually because of unrealistic expectations of lack of knowledge or because they so easily jump to conclusions) and it’s one of the greatest frustrations of many good retailers and manufacturers who in many cases need to accommodate unreasonable expectations and comments just because of the harm that can be caused by unreasonable people who will post whatever suits their purposes and leave a permanent record that is distorted.

In other words this is not a review site where anyone is free to say whatever they want without comment or challenge when lines are crossed because the fact is (and this is not implying anything about whether it’s true in your case or not because I can’t know) is that consumers in general are often a bigger issue and much more liable to make exaggerated claims, try to hold others responsible for their own decisions, or make misleading statements, than the types of retailers or manufacturers that are normally discussed here and who are often “accused” of things that are distorted and just not completely true to satisfy an agenda that is not always obvious. That’s not to say that any group is perfect … only that consumers don’t get a “free pass” here.

In any case … the rest of your story is welcome and will stay as a record of your experience.

Phoenix

9

Thanks again Phoenix, i understand everything your pointing out.
I did not mention i asked for solid core, i was worried about the role together feel we’ve experiened before when we had a spilt mattress.
Boy this morning we woke feeling broken, my shoulders are sore and mid back feels like i slept with a brink under it. Im laying as i type, the bed is pushing me midback, does that make sense? Is this part of the adjustment period? Anyone else have this issue?

10

Roll together geesh, not role

11

Hi MJ73,

It’s not likely that a solid core vs a split core would make any perceptible difference in most cases but this would also depend on many factors (such as the type of materials, the location of the split, the differences between each side of the split, and the types of materials and layers above the split and on the ticking and quilting of the mattress).

It could be part of the adjustment period, a symptom of being too firm, or a symptom of being too soft, or an alignment symptom based on how you interact with the specific design of the mattress. The challenge of course is to figure out which it is so that any fine tuning or refinements can change things in the right direction.

I would make sure you have read post #2 here which I linked earlier. Post #3 here and post #6 here and post #6 here and post #7 here may also be worth reading to give you some insights into what may be happening and help you identify what your next “best” step may be.

I think the real issue though stems from here …

because it’s not possible to “duplicate” another mattress using different layering. When you use different layers to “approximate” the feel and performance of another mattress … how well the “approximation” succeeds is relative to each person. While there are many “pathways” to a similar outcome (see post #3 here) … each one may feel similar to some and not to others. Some people with certain body types or sleeping styles or perceptions may say “it’s exactly the same” and other may say “it’s completely different”. In some cases … because our memories for the subjective “feel” of a mattress can be so inaccurate … even the same mattress may feel very different when you’ve slept on it for a while if the store testing was based more on how it felt rather than more objective testing which tends to be much more accurate (although even here there are no guarantees either). Taking enough time for a mattress to break in can also make a difference.

For example … your mattress has a very similar top comfort layer to the Beautiful. This alone may be enough for some people to call it “very close” regardless of the rest of the mattress. the Beautiful then has 3" of 24 ILD under the top layer and then a 6" layer of 36 ILD. One possibility to “approximate” the effect of having a soft layer and then a firmer layer under your 3" of 19 ILD would be to use a softer core which would be “in the middle” of the two. an even larger number of people would call this “similar” but there would still be many who didn’t. All of this is relative to each person’s perceptions and the limitations of the design you are using to approximate another different design.

I personally think that trying to duplicate another mattress can often lead to disappointing outcomes for many reasons and it’s much more “accurate” to measure any mattress against more objective standards (see post #2 here).

In any case … I think the next steps would be to first give it enough time (and eliminate any obvious possibilities mentioned in some of the links) … followed with deciding if your goal is to “duplicate” the Beautiful (and your best option here may be to buy the Beautiful itself) or whether your goal is to fine tune the PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and personal preferences) regardless of whether this produces exactly the same “feel” as the Beautiful (which also may have produced “symptoms” when you actually slept on it). My personal thoughts are that your own experience would be much more important than trying to “match” your subjective memory of another mattress but of course what is most important for each person is for each of us to decide and there is no right or wrong here.

Hope this helps.

Phoenix

12

Hello everyone and morning,
Fortunatly we made it through the tornadoes last night, gotta love St Louis 82 yesterday its now 49, lol.
So we received the 3" topper, what a difference it made, feels like a different bed. I slept very well, only tiny bit sore in middle back. It feels like heaven and am very hopeful it stays this way.

Mary

13

Hi MJ73,

That’s great news :slight_smile:

I hope it stays that way as well and if you are feeling the same once you are past the initial adjustment and break-in period of the first 30 days or so (and perhaps sooner) then the odds are very good that it will.

It seems that you ended up very close to the Beautiful layering and design (except for your cover which is higher quality than the Beautiful) and I’m glad to hear you are sleeping well!

Phoenix