Help me pick a latex matress

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

Hello,

I’ve been looking for a new bed, and thanks to Phonix, I cancelled my order of a Leesa before it could ship! Good looking out man -

My wife and I are on the heavier side, im about 210 and she’s about 260. I’ve considered Leesa, Casper, Tuft N Needle. Dismissed all of them for one reason or another, looking for something better then Tuft N Needle, and Leesa/Casper seem to be lacking value compared to the other options here. We are looking for a KING size bed, with a 10 Year lifespan or greater.

Im very interested in Brooklyn Bedding, I went to their website and Jacob talked to me for awhile on the instant chat, very helpful person.
Im also considering DreamFoam product line (also from BB). My budget started out at 900$ but I can stretch it to a max of 1500$. Here are the options i’ve been considering, and I’d really like others to chime in with any other options that i’ve missed. I see flobeds are quite popular here, but I don’t see anything in their product line remotely close to my price range.

The Goals:
10+ Year life
King Size
Latex/Hybrid or all latex
Heavy Couple Compatible (210/260 LBS)
Side Sleepers
900-1500$ Budget

The Contenders:

Cotton Camia
Bamboo Bliss
Aloe Alexis
DreamFoam: Ultimate Dreams Natural
DreamFoam: Ultimate Dreams Freedom

What else am I missing? Other options please.

My thoughts on the above.

Cotton Camia : We are heavy, and 1.5LB core seems to eliminate this option for durability.

Bamboo Bliss: Very well made, 2.2 lb core, quality talalay latex, swap comfort easy. Good durability/Value

Aloe Alexis: Pushing the budget, but twice the comfort layers (6" latex!) sounds dreamy, all the qualieis of Bamboo bliss and then some.

Dreamfoam UD Natrual: Great price (810$), Strong core 2.2 LB (an oddity for the dreamfoam lineup), Dunlop latex, would rather have talalay. “only” 3" comfort layer. No comfort changing options.

Dreamfoam Freedom: Oddly priced, 100% latex bed for 1000$? Seems like a great value, questionable support for heavier couple? How does comfort compare to Aloe Alexis? all research says 100% latex is the best you can buy, but there are much more expensive hybrid options, like Aoe Alexis. This is a very confusing product.

Opinions? Advice?

We’ve been sleeping on a 10+ Year old Simmons, it’s actually the best matress we’ve ever owned, I think it was probably a 1200$ retail matress, been pretty happy with it, but the “roll together” is getting worse, and support seems to be fading.

2

Hi Elderblaze,

Post #3 here and the posts it links to has more information that may be helpful for those that in higher weight ranges.

I think you have covered most of the most likely latex and latex hybrid options that are available through Brooklyn Bedding and Dreamfoam and you are certainly looking at some great choices. If you are looking for additional online options then the tutorial post includes this link to a list of the members here that sell mattresses online and many of them sell latex or latex hybrid mattresses that use different types or blends of latex with a wide range of designs, features, options, return or exchange policies, and prices. If you let me know your city or zip code I’d also be happy to let you know about any local options or possibilities I’m aware of as well.

I would agree with your thoughts about the Cotton Camilla and in your weight ranges I would probably lean towards a higher density support core.

You can read a little more about the benefits of the two layers of latex in the Alexis in post #2 here.

The base layer in this mattress is 2.0 lb (not 2.2 lb) but it is a high quality material. As you mentioned this uses Dunlop latex in the comfort layers and there is more about the difference between the “feel” of Talalay and Dunlop in post #7 here. It also doesn’t have the option to further customize the mattress after a purchase with exchanging or rearranging layers that are included in the other mattresses you are considering.

The Freedom mattresses uses synthetic continuous pour Dunlop made by Mountaintop Foam which is a lower cost version of latex which is the reason for the lower price. There is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here and more about the Freedom mattress and synthetic Dunlop in post #2 here. The Freedom mattress also has standardized layers that can be re-arranged to customize the pressure relief and firmness of the mattress but there are no layer exchanges so you will always have a soft layer somewhere in the mattress and with your higher weights you may find that you do better without a soft layer at all rather than just putting the softer layer deeper in the mattress.

Hopefully this will held you with making a final choice between some very good options that are available to you.

Phoenix

3

Thanks Phoenix. I just took a trip to a local matress store and now im even more confused/undecided.

Im in San Antonio, Texas, 78233. There seems to be a distinct lack of quality mattress stores here, mostly furniture stores peddling cheap crap furniture. And big box furniture stores selling name brand only. We do have a company here that manufacturers in town and sells direct, but their products and website are questionable. http://www.cantwellmattress.com/

They don’t sell a hybrid mattress, at least on their website, and their pure latex is very expensive.

The matress store i just got back from was a small mom and pop shop, and the owner was very knowledgeable. He did not have a single name brand mattress in the store, to his credit. And actually had a 100% 10" latex mattress in the show room. I tried it and I immediately loved it. So much better then memory foam, and close to a great innerspring, but better.

His prices were 2400$ for 12" pure talalay latex, 2000$ for 10", and 1800$ for 8", in a king size. I can do better online, but honestly those seem like fair prices for a small local shop. Of course i’d have to pay tax along with a higher price and he offered zero return policy, once you order it, it’s yours.

He was very hard on the boxing process of foam mattress and said that compressing and rolling them damages them, and they never fully return to their proper shape. He also was very damning of hybrid Foam Core/ Latex mattress. He said pure latex is the only way to go, and that Foam core hybrids just don’t compare at all to latex for comfort or durability. I think he was just saying that because he does not offer the product. He did sell plenty of memory foam products, and I know they are nothing more then 3-6" of memory foam on top of a polycore just like a latex hybrid…

I wonder how the Alexis will feel compared to that pure latex i tried.

He also did not seem to be very knowledgeable with the specifics of firmness and latex, he said if you want firm get an 8" if you want plush get a 10" and if you want super plush get a 12". His eye’s kind of glazed over when I asked him about ILD’s and density/firmness of the latex itself.

4

I saw this in another thread, and man, for 100$ over my max budget, I think i could stretch. What are your thoughts on this product?

I called Cantwell just to give them a shot, completely non-competitive. 2000$ for a 3" latex on polycore (qtex). 3300$ for 100% Natural latex 10".

5

Hi Elderblaze,

You may have seen this already but just in case you haven’t … the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in the San Antonio area (subject to the guidelines here) are listed in post #2 here.

You can see my comments about latex/polyfoam hybrids vs all latex mattresses in post #2 here.

Short term compression during shipping or short periods of storage doesn’t harm higher quality foam materials (or some types of innersprings) that can be easily compressed.

There is more about the different ways that one mattress can “match” or “approximate” another one in post #9 here but since “feel” is so subjective and relative to each person and their body type, sleeping style, and individual preferences and sensitivities it can be very difficult if not impossible to predict how any mattress will compare to another one for any specific person once there are more than very minor differences between them in their design.

[quote]I saw this in another thread, and man, for 100$ over my max budget, I think i could stretch. What are your thoughts on this product?

www.mattresses.net/king-all-natural-tala...o-cover-upgrade.html[/quote]

As you probably know … Arizona Premium Mattress is a member of this site which means that I think very highly of them and they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, and transparency.

While I can’t speak to whether any mattress will be a good match for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) and you will need to talk with them to discuss your comfort choices (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here) … I can definitely confirm that the mattress you linked uses high quality and durable materials and components and there are no weak links in the design in terms of durability. If it’s a good match for you in terms of PPP and the other parts of your personal value equation that are important to you then it would certainly be well worth considering and would make a good quality/value choice.

Phoenix

6

I think their (Arizona) innerspring hybrid looks pretty great too. Very good price. How does the legget and plat pocket coil system compare to top quality innersprings?

I did find an even better deal on arizona’s website, they offer the same 100% latex mattress in a blended latex instead of natural for 200$ less. I did notice all of their offerings are 8" latex mattress, and even Brooklyn’s “total 10” is only 9" of latex.

Arizona has the 6" Core and 3" topper (+100$ upcharge) for 1495$ + 152$ shipping. That put them about 150$ cheaper then the Total Latex from Brooklyn Bedding for what appears to be, the same mattress.

Would the Arizona innerspring + 3" latex hybrid be suitable for heavier people? Do innerspring’s contribute “More” to the comfort then a polyfoam or latex core?

What i mean is, 3" of latex on an innerspring vs 3" of latex on a polyfoam core, should be a pretty different experience?

7

Hi Elderblaze,

The quantum edge coil they use is certainly a high quality pocket coil (see post #16 here). How it compares to other types of innersprings would depend on the specific innerspring you are comparing it to but the innerspring generally isn’t the weakest link in a mattress regardless of which type of innerspring is being used. There is more information about the different types of innersprings in this article and in post #10 here and there is more information about innerspring/latex hybrids in post #13 here.

This is a very similar mattress to the first one you linked except it uses blended Talalay instead of 100% natural Talalay. There is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here.

That would depend on whether you are talking about suitability in terms of PPP or about durability. A good quality innerspring with a latex comfort layer wouldn’t have any weak links in terms of durability for higher weights but only your own testing or personal experience can decide whether any mattress is a good match for you in terms of PPP (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here). Comfort is very subjective so the choice between different materials or types of support cores would be a preference and budget choice rather than a better/worse choice (assuming they are both good quality materials). The link in my previous reply had more information about latex/polyfoam hybrids vs all latex mattresses and post #28 here has more information about latex support cores vs an innerspring support core.

For most people they would feel and perform quite differently yes.

There is also more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here that can help you make more meaningful comparisons between mattresses.

Phoenix

8

Thanks for the feedback! I am really looking at Arizona’s product line now, they seem to offer more value then Brooklyn Bedding. I have a really hard time telling their products apart, other then price.

The Eco Sleep for example, compares very well to the Bambo Bliss. 3" talalay on a high quality foam core, with a wool zippered case for easy comfort layer swaps. The eco sleep is around 100$ cheaper though, when shipping is included, and 10% price reduction on Bambo Bliss is accounted for… makes it 1060$ vs 1170$. These lower prices are reflected in the entire product line.

The Adjustable Ultra plush king size, with 3" topper (9" total latex) comes in at 1650$. this almost completely nullifies the entire Aloe Alexis product. There’s no need for a compromise when you can get pure latex for almost the same price. And if your willing to go with the 2" topper for an 8" latex mattress then the price is the same. I don’t really see the value in “Natural” latex, im perfectly fine with 60/40 synthetic, and in fact, it appears to be a superior material.

You are very neutral recommending any specific companies. Im not shilling for Arizona here, im just trying to save someone else some time in the future if they search. I may be riding the line here with the rules im not sure. Feel free to edit the post if need be.

I wonder if Arizona honor’s the 5% member discount? even more savings

9

Hi Eldeerblaze,

You are certainly looking at some good options but there are also many parts to the “value” of a mattress purchase besides just the price or the “raw material” value of a mattress that may be significant parts of each person’s personal value equation and the “value” of a mattress purchase is always relative to the many criteria that are most important to each person.

Having said that … Arizona Premium would certainly represent great value for most people and they are among the “value leaders” in the industry.

There is certainly nothing in your post which is against the rules of the forum and different comments and opinions are always welcome. I’m “neutral” because I know that only each person can decide for themselves which mattress is the best “value” for them based on their own individual criteria regardless of which mattress may be the best value for someone else so my focus is always on helping each member with “how” to choose or decide on the criteria that are most important to them rather than using criteria that may apply to some people but not to others.

Yes they will as long as you let them know you are a member here or use the discount code with an online order (see here)

Phoenix

10

I think i’ve narrowed my search down to either the Ultra Plush Adjustable, with 1" upgrade. Bringing the product to 9" Of latex for 1495$ or the Ultimate Hybrid 3" Latex over Pocket coils @ 1295$

I’ve slept on coils my whole life so im already used to the way they feel. I was impressed with the Pocket Coil technolgy, specifically that legget and plat system they use, i’d not been considering coils again, but after seeing that bed, it does look very intriguing, simple, well made parts. There do seem to be some people who have tried both and prefer the pocket coil system.

I do not feel that 3" of latex over a polyfoam core would be enough comfort layer for our heavier weights. But an innerspring differs from a polycore in the fact that it offers comfort and support by itself as opposed to only support. I beleive a firm latex core would probably be similar in the fact that it also adds to comfort and support.

I guess what im “hung up on” is 3" of latex is not good enough on Poly foam, but it is good enough on an innerspring. Does that sound right? If you “bottom out” the comfort layer on a 3" on polycore configuration your laying on stiff hard foam. This is not true with an innerspring setup.

It’s been stated that the “core” system of most mattress is not the weak link. Now i’ve always used coil mattress and I remember hearing the coils stretch and pop, and squeak. I suspect these were very old low quality mattress tho, as my current Simmons beauty rest is 10+ years old and I don’t ever hear it’s coils doing there thing.

Are there any “S” brands I could find in a store that use a high quality pocket coil system with latex? I’ve got a hunch that the Ultimate Hybrid Arizona sells is probably about as good as an innerspring can get, but it would be nice to try something similiar.

How far up the line is the Combi-Zone with Quantum Edge support pocket coil system, is that L&P’s top line coil?

What firmness of the 3" layer would you recommend for a heavier couple? I think my current mattress is definitely on the firm/medium side. I do wake up stiff with pain tho. They offer 19, 28, and 32 firmness. I was leaning towards 28, as I feel 19 is way to soft, i’ve seen forum post were people have got 19/16 and regret it. I’ve heard for heavier people more firm is better. 32 might even be good esp when the foam softens

Why is latex on coils a new thing? is there a reason this has not been done before? both tech have been around for 50+ years.

Is this product good? how does it effect breathability and does it sleep cool? does it make any plastic crunchy noise?

Have you seen the section of Arizona’s website poking fun at DreamFoam bedding? They say they tried that and it does not work (specifically the 1.5LB core), they say dreamfoam will be inundated with warranty claims and they are giving latex a bad name. They say that dreamfoam “stole” their mattress cover design in an attempt to confuse people. someone there is definitely butt hurt about dreamfoam.

11

Sorry to throw another option, but want you to get the best value: have you considered Sleep EZ?

12

I thought I glanced over their product line at one point, and ruled them out, i’ll take another look.

Edit: ok just looked again, very similar products, about 10-15% more expensive across the board, not seeing the value?

Their 9000 model is 1800$ including shipping for 8" of latex, this compares to an 8" @ Arizona for 1395 + 150 shipping = 1545$.

Their Luxerion model compares to Eco Sleep, again about 10-15% more expensive.

Upon further examination, their beds come in 3" layers and appear to offer easier change of firmness and adjustability. This feature may warrant their higher prices.

13

Hi Elderblaze,

The only accurate answer to this would be “it depends” on the type and firmness of the polyfoam and/or on the type and firmness of the innerspring. In general terms it would tend be accurate but “generic” answers don’t apply to specific individuals or circumstances so the most reliable source of information about whether any online mattress is likely to be a good “match” for a specific person will always be a knowledgeable and experienced online retailer or manufacturer who sells that specific mattress.

The key here is “most”. There will always be exceptions where the innerspring fails for various reasons and it will also depend on the type of innerspring as well but this would be true in “most” cases. The “weak link” of a mattress is the upper part that is compressed the most on a regular basis and is most subject to the wear and tear of the compression forces that come from sleeping on a mattress and this is generally the top 3" to 6" of the mattress (depending on the specifics of the mattress and on the body type and sleeping positions of the person sleeping on it).

I don’t keep a record of all the specific mattress constructions that are available in the industry (which would be more than anyone could keep up with in a constantly changing market) but I don’t know of any that are made by the “S” brands off the top of my head. There would likely be some that are made by some of the "non “S” brand mid tier or smaller manufacturers that may be available in your area but you would need to check with the specific retailers or manufacturers that are on the San Antonio list or some of the other retailers that come up with a google search for mattresses in San Antonio.

I’m not sure what you mean by “top line” coil because the type of innerspring that is “best” for any particular person would depend on the person and on the specific construction of the mattress and I don’t know of any “rating system” that rates them in terms of better or worse because this would depend on the application. Their comfort coil line of pocket coils are all good quality pocket coils but but I don’t think that the Quantum Edge is their most expensive coil so it wouldn’t be their top line if you are using either coil count or price as your reference.

Again … I don’t make specific “comfort” recommendations because the manufacturer/retailer you are dealing with would be a much more knowledgeable and reliable source for this type of guidance about their own mattresses than anyone else (including me) … see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here.

It’s not that new and has been available in the market for years. For example Baybed (another one of the members here) has been making them for 23 years and there are probably other manufacturers that have been making them for much longer than that.

There are no weak links in the mattress (which is the only definition of “good” that I can speak to), it wouldn’t make any “crunchy” noise that I’m aware of, and latex and innersprings are among the cooler materials and components in the industry (see post #2 here for more about the variables that can affect sleeping temperature).

Yes I’ve seen it and you can see my comments about it here.

Phoenix

14

Thanks phonix, that bottom link is to a Protect-A-Bed tho, not the mattress. I was wondering if Protect-A-Bed is good cover, i’ve used cheap plastic ones in the past were you can hear the plastic making noise.

Do you know if there is a new coupon code for Arizona, the current MU5 code does not work.

15

Hi Elderblaze,

Oops … I scanned the link without clicking it and thought it went to their latex/innerspring hybrid. Sorry.

There is more about the pros and cons of different types of mattress protectors in post #89 here. The Protect-A-Bed is one of the thin “membrane types” of protectors that would have little effect on the feel of the mattress, are “semi breathable” and waterproof, and don’t have the “crinkly” feel of the old style vinyl types of protectors (the membrane is a flexible polyurethane material). While I have seem a few complaints about most of these types of protectors (regardless of brand) … most people don’t seem to notice it at all.

I just called them and they told me that the MU5 code was still correct and “should” be working but if for some reason it didn’t then you can call them and they can give you the discount manually.

Phoenix

16

Yeah im guessing it’s because it’s a new year and the MU5 code expired on 12/31/2014 at midnight. Someone just needs to fix it.

It looks like Sleep EZ used to make a pocket coil and latex mattress called “lifetime dreams” in king size for 1100$, but their website is pretty terrible, there are only remnants of it here and there. I wonder why that company was rated so poorly on “whatisthebestmattress” It’s weird they have multiple websites. They appear to have at least 3 websites, and they are all pretty terrible, but then again so is arizona’s.

Are there any other Latex on Pocket coils that compete with Arizona’s bed in that same price range?

edit: i found a 4th sleep ez website… sheesh, really? that does not inspire confidence, at all. It makes you think something shady is going on, the websites are all terrible too. I mean like you choose a bed and there’s no way to pick a size, or there’s script error’s, or just flat out broken links and features… very odd.

edit: there’s at least 2 or 3 more i’ve found… ridiculous… would the real sleep ez please stand up?

lol lets dilute our brand by making a dozen barely functional websites!

17

Hi ElderBlaze,

They still make an innerspring/latex mattress but it’s only available locally not online. Most of the comments I’ve seen about them on the WTB mattress forum were/are very positive so I’m not sure what comments or “rating” you are referring to or their author or credibility.

They have also been working on a new main website that is a little “cleaner” for some time but it’s not ready yet and I would focus on the mattresses that are listed here which are the ones that they sell online.

In my experience … most of the best manufacturers manufacturers in the country are “mattress people” and many if not most of them are far from being the best “marketing people” and often don’t have the greatest websites.

I don’t keep a record of prices in my head so that part of your research you would need to do for yourself but there are some latex/innerspring hybrids included in post #2 here that may also be worth considering.

Phoenix

18

I’ve been communicating with Arizona Mattress, good people. They said both Ultimate Hybrid and 100% latex are very comfortable when properly setup. And that it was really a preference issue as one is not clearly better then the other. They did say the Ultimate hybrid coils are firm, equal to a 36 ILD latex core. All greek to me im afraid. I’ve been very close to pushing the button on the Ultimate hybrid, but i’ve decided to slow down a bit, im investigating some of the higher end local shops in town, if for nothing else then to go in person an lay on some full latex vs pocket coil designs. I can’t justify spending 1200$+ without at least laying on some beds. I do feel a little guilty for "using’ the shops like this, but hey if someone is a great sales person an can be competitive maybe i’ll buy local, doubt it though. It’s pretty hard to compete with some of the better online outfits.

19

Hi Eldeerblaze,

Not surprisingly … I would agree with this and the choice between a latex/pocket coil hybrid and an all latex mattress would be more of a preference than anything else (see post #13 here and the posts it links to)

Phoenix

20

Well, I did go lay on some beds today, my favorite was one called “Vi Spring Classic” but unfortunately it was 6000$.

I laid on 2 all latex beds, a plush and “Luxery firm”. We preferred the firmer bed. We tried out a Sherwood Bedding Lumina Spirit, and I think I prefered the feeling of the coils over the latex, my wife also liked the feeling, but her favorite was the firm Latex, it was a lopsided comparison though as the Spirit had several layers of comfort, 3 layers of soy based polyfoam, a layer of memory foam, and finally a layer of latex.

Ignoring the comfort layer and overly plush feel of the Pocket coil bed, I think I still prefered it. Maybe im just used to springs. My wife is far less picky then I am, im confident she’ll be happy with the Ultimate Hybrid with a firm latex (28 ILD) 3" comfort layer.

The Ultimate Hybrid and 100% latex bed are so close in price (200$) that it has no bearing on my choice, there is a certain spring feel that latex fails to capture, I can’t quite put my finger on it.

The Vi Spring products were pretty amazing, I found them more comfortable then the latex, but they are simply not an option. They use some real high end springs with horse mane and tail with wool.